# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 211
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4203 "2012-09-21T16:10:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > IIRC correctly, Freeh based his conclusion on emails from Curley and Schultz which which indicated they intended to report McQueary’s allegation, but that Curley had second thoughts after discussing the matter with Paterno and decided that he’d rather ask Sandusky about it first. > > To my mind there are a couple of problems with this. First, it presumes that Paterno counseled Curley not to go to the authorities, and second, it implies that Paterno told Curley to go to Sandusky instead. > > I think a more likely scenario, based upon Joe Paterno’s long standing reputation for integrity and good works, is that Curley advised Paterno that he and Schultz were trying to determine if what McQueary had told them rose to the level where it should be reported, and Paterno said something along the line of _“Well, I don’t know. He [Sandusky] seems to have a thing for hugging kids in the shower. I remember a couple of years ago this one kid’s mom became upset because he hugged her kid in the shower and she and she made accusations of some sort of sexual impropriety, but the authorities investigated it and nothing came of it. May be the same thing here, I don’t know. Just do whatever you think best.”_ Whereupon Curley decided to ask Sandusky about it, possibly with the idea in mind that he could suss out from Sandusky’s body English whether he was being truthful or not. > > I think this scenario is every bit as likely, if not more so, than the one in which Freeh appears to conclude simply from the fact they met that Paterno advised Curley against going to the authorities. Actually, I think the more plausible scenario is that laid out by the investigators and not an imaginary conversation made up by some know-nothing on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4204 "2012-09-21T16:10:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Joe Paterno’s long standing reputation for integrity and good works Which is now in tatters due to the [Penn State report finds Paterno and others concealed Sandusky’s actions](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/12/penn-state-report-paterno-sandusky) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4205 "2012-09-21T16:11:29Z")
SA, are you a parent? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4206 "2012-09-21T16:19:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Actually, I think the more plausible scenario is that laid out by the investigators and not an imaginary conversation made up by some know-nothing on a message board. You forgot “blowhard” and “idiot” in there after the “know-nothing”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4207 "2012-09-21T16:37:50Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Actually, I think the more plausible scenario is that laid out by the investigators and not an imaginary conversation made up by some know-nothing on a message board. So you find the imaginary conversation made up by Louis Freeh to be more plausible than the one made up by me? Fair enough, I suppose, but I don’t see what it proves. > [@JohnT](#): > > SA, are you a parent? I am. And you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who loves children more than I do. Anyone who knows me well would happily and forcefully tell you that. But the fact that I love kids doesn’t mean that I reflexively toss my brain out the window whenever something bad happens to a child. Logic, common sense, due process and the facts still have an important roll to play. There is no rational benefit to an hysterical, unthinking lynch mob mentality no matter what the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4208 "2012-09-21T16:47:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I apologize for giving SA the motivation for starting the ATMB thread, which lead to this one’s resurrection. Don’t. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. It’s even funnier when he exposes himself deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4209 "2012-09-21T17:02:28Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I think it probably went like this: > > Paterno dropping his trousers: “Look Curley, you see where my penis is? Now hold that paper towel tube at about this height…see how I have to bend my knees to a physically impossible position to be able to insert my penis into the tube? Wow, that is putting so much pressure on my back there is simply no way I could even thrust once or twice…case closed!” > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That, of course, would have worked just as well. I truly, honestly, can’t tell if you’re being serious here or if you’ve twisted so far over you feel that mocking yourself is the only option left. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4210 "2012-09-21T17:03:57Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Don’t. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. It’s even funnier when he exposes himself deliberately. He’s a flasher too? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4211 "2012-09-21T17:14:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who loves children more than I do. Actually, you and Jerry Sandusky are tied for first place. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4212 "2012-09-21T17:15:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > SA, are you a parent? Whatever else i might say about **Starving Artist** ’s position in this debate, i think this is a stupid and pointless question. The idea that only parents can adequately understand or participate in or care about issues involving children is one of the most common, yet most asinine and thoughtless, cliches of the modern world. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4213 "2012-09-21T17:24:44Z")
Not at all. There are certain experiences (parenthood, homelessness, being on a battlefield, to name 3) where experience is far, far more valuable than book knowledge. Most of us who have had kids learn pretty damned quickly that what we thought we knew about parenthood pre-child was just flat out ignorant. (For example, I would never go to a Catholic priest for marital/child-rearing advice - what would they be able to bring to the table?) Probably a subject better suited for another thread, however… ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4214 "2012-09-21T17:37:00Z")
The impression I get is that people think if you’re a properly good and loving parent it should be automatic that you become hysterical and assume a reflexive, unthinking lynch mob mentality anytime something especially bad happens to a child. ETA: To quote myself: “There is no rational benefit to an hysterical, unthinking lynch mob mentality no matter what the crime.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4215 "2012-09-21T17:53:57Z")
How about juries? Are they “hysterical, unthinking lynch mobs” if they make you look stupid? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4216 "2012-09-21T18:13:44Z")
No, it goes to perspective. Are we listening to a college kid or somebody with kids of their own? Knowing this allows us to weigh your arguments against your experience with children and the responsibilities one has to them. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4217 "2012-09-21T18:14:47Z")
I can just hear the Starving fatherly advice now: “Don’t worry son, [men and boys sometimes shower together](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15511743&postcount=4173). Just keep quiet about. Don’t want to upset coach, now do we?” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4218 "2012-09-21T18:14:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How about juries? Are they “hysterical, unthinking lynch mobs” if they make you look stupid? Nope, juries are just peachy. And in this case they found as I did, that what McQueary saw was not rape. You people refused to believe it, refused even to consider it, and you used it as a basis for your hatred of Joe Paterno, Penn State and me. But the jury ruled that I was right and you were wrong. The McQueary rape count was one of only three out of forty-eight Sandusky was acquitted of. So I was right, you and your coterie of hysterical nabobs were wrong, due process and justice prevailed, and Sandusky got what was coming to him as proven in a court of law. It was a glorious day, and I revelled as I basked in the triumph of reason over hysteria! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4219 "2012-09-21T18:20:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nope, juries are just peachy. And in this case they found as I did, that what McQueary saw was not rape. You’re fucking pathetic. They found no such thing. What they didn’t find was the victim to come forward. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4220 "2012-09-21T18:23:28Z")
SA, please cite anything that says the jury concluded that Sandusky and the boy showered together without any sexual activity occurring. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4221 "2012-09-21T18:26:53Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You’re fucking pathetic. They found no such thing. What they didn’t find was the victim to come forward. And now, the victim HAS come forward, and is considering suing Penn State. Because they let him be butt-raped by Sandusky in the shower and did nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4222 "2012-09-21T18:30:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > what McQueary saw was not rape. It’s as if you never even heard the words “rhythmic slapping sounds”, isn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=210) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=212)