# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 233
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4643 "2012-10-01T20:24:21Z")
It’s not a hope; it’s an observation. You’ll never wash this stink off, no matter how many boys you hug in the shower. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4644 "2012-10-01T20:24:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, I suspect there are plenty of people reading this thread who, while they aren’t posting, haven’t been overcome by the crazies. It was to them my remark was intended… And I suspect you’re full of shit. Winning! ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4645 "2012-10-01T20:26:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I realize this is the fond hope of the likes of you and **MizWhatsit** , but believe me this line of attack gets nowhere with me. So stuff it, mmkay? If you don’t care what the rest of the board thinks about you, why did you start a thread in ATMB asking to confront Paterno references, lest the rest of the board think badly about you? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4646 "2012-10-01T20:40:31Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > If you don’t care what the rest of the board thinks about you, why did you start a thread in ATMB asking to confront Paterno references, lest the rest of the board think badly about you? And we can see how well \*that \*worked out for you, can’t we, **SA**? C’mon, everybody, act all chastised and stuff now. I mean really, my opinion of \*\*SA \*\*has been changed forever by this thread. Or that one, I keep forgetting. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4647 "2012-10-01T20:42:40Z")
Valid point. I daresay if any poster doggedly pursued a threat topic as Starving Artist has pursued this one, then that poster’s reputation would indeed be linked to that topic, for good or ill, and active efforts to break that association only reinforce it. That is, of course, why I’m widely known on this board as The Brilliant Adonis. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4648 "2012-10-01T20:47:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because you are totally and hilariously certain. You have no doubt whatsoever. It’s amazing. I said it before, and I will say it again. SA is best summed up by the text on the Magic card True Believer: “So great is his certainty that mere facts cannot shake it.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4649 "2012-10-01T20:49:05Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > If you don’t care what the rest of the board thinks about you, why did you start a thread in ATMB asking to confront Paterno references, lest the rest of the board think badly about you? I don’t care what people who read this thread think about me if they decide to think ill of me as a result, because they’ll be on the wrong side of the issue and not thinking straight to begin with. What cheesed me off was the idea that people would be allowed to take potshots at me while I wouldn’t be allowed to respond, thus allowing my opponents an opportunity to influence people who hadn’t heard my side of the argument and therefore draw the wrong conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4650 "2012-10-01T20:51:07Z")
Well, anyone remotely curious as why people are telling you to go fuck a cardboard tube can inquire and will be, I’m sure, cheerfully directed back to this thread where they can judge the situation for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4651 "2012-10-01T20:52:59Z")
I think we’re getting somewhat off the mark here people and it’s taking up too much of my time. Remember the two key points of my argument in this thread going back all the way to the first of the year: a.) No evidence existed that Joe Paterno knew of and sought to cover up Jerry Sandusky’s sexual abuse of children; and b.) that the supposed rape in the shower room whose hideousness was used to exaggerate the villainy of Joe Paterno in knowing about and covering up for Jerry Sandusky’s behavior in fact never happened. And now just for shits and giggles, I think I’ll throw in c.) which is that I was called every name in the book for even suggesting a. and b. and now I have been proven right and the name callers and hysterical dipshits have been proven wrong. I really don’t see what else there is to argue about and even I am beginning to find the thread tiresome. So now I think I’ve reached the point I reached once before with you lot where I finally decided that sometimes you just have to let idiots be idiots, that after a certain point there’s simply nothing to be done about it…though goodness knows I’ve tried. So I think I’m gonna bow out now like I did some months back, only this time happy and secure in the knowledge that the passing of time and a trial jury’s verdict has vindicated my position that Joe Paterno neither knew about nor engaged in a coverup of Jerry Sandusky’s sexual abuse of children, that no rape occurred in the shower room that night, and thus no responsibility for said rape may attach to Joe Paterno in any way. And I’m quite happy to be so vindicated. 🙂 > [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, anyone remotely curious as why people are telling you to go fuck a cardboard tube can inquire and will be, I’m sure, cheerfully directed back to this thread where they can judge the situation for themselves. Indeed, and that will be fine with me. It’s what I intend to do myself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4652 "2012-10-01T20:56:10Z")
Well, (a) is not true and (b) isn’t necessary to establish probable willful blindness by Paterno. As for ©… well, that’s not my department. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4653 "2012-10-01T21:00:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think we’re getting somewhat off the mark here people and it’s taking up too much of my time. Remember the two key points of my argument in this thread going back all the way to the first of the year: a.) No evidence existed that Joe Paterno knew of and sought to cover up Jerry Sandusky’s sexual abuse of children; and b.) that the supposed rape in the shower room whose hideousness was used to exaggerate the villainy of Joe Paterno in knowing about and covering up for Jerry Sandusky’s behavior in fact never happened. > > And now just for shits and giggles, I think I’ll throw in c.) which is that I was called every name in the book for even suggesting a. and b. and now I have been proven right and the name callers and hysterical dipshits have been proven wrong. I really don’t see what else there is to argue about and even I am beginning to find the thread tiresome. You really believe that you’ve proven that it wasn’t rape. You’re confidence is unshakeable. You know it wasn’t rape. You really, in your own mind, _know_ it. Not a smidgen of doubt. In your mind it’s not even remotely possible. Amazing. And not only are you sure, but you know that there’s a silent majority of readers that support you that have yet to speak up. This silent horde props up your confidence- you _know_ it wasn’t rape, and you _know_ that there are tons (thousands? tens of thousands?) of readers of this thread who agree with you but choose to be silent. Incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4654 "2012-10-01T21:02:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Indeed, and that will be fine with me. It’s what I intend to do myself. Heh, that makes me chuckle. Let us know the result if you ever actually do that. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4655 "2012-10-01T21:03:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So I think I’m gonna bow out now like I did some months back, only this time happy and secure in the knowledge that the passing of time and a trial jury’s verdict has vindicated my position that Joe Paterno neither knew about nor engaged in a coverup of Jerry Sandusky’s sexual abuse of children…and thus no responsibility for said rape may attach to Joe Paterno in any way. One more time for Roman Hruska! Dead puppies aren’t…sorry. wrong chorus. Here’s the right one: Starving Artist, you ignorant fucktube. That’s not what the trial was about. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4656 "2012-10-01T21:22:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So I think I’m gonna bow out now like I did some months back, only this time happy and secure in the knowledge that the passing of time and a trial jury’s verdict has vindicated my position that Joe Paterno neither knew about nor engaged in a coverup of Jerry Sandusky’s sexual abuse of children, that no rape occurred in the shower room that night, and thus no responsibility for said rape may attach to Joe Paterno in any way. You don’t get to decide what reaility is; sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4657 "2012-10-01T21:48:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, Sandusky could have raped the boy in the shower…at some other time. But neither the trial jury nor I believe that what McQueary described was consistent with such a conclusion. Why are you not questioning the pedophilic instincts of the jury, I wonder? Hmm? > > Now, I ask you again: what is it about all that makes you think I’m deluded and unhinged? Give me a cite in which the jury said that what McQueary described was not rape. You’ve looked into it so deep that should be easy. Do you think that it is possible that they concluded that the testimony was consistent with rape but without the testimony of the victim it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? The reason why you are deluded and unhinged is because you have put such energy and are unwavering in your argument. The fact that you interpret a couple words of a statement and built an entire scenario around it. You are way too invested. You have won nothing. To think that you have means you are severely detached from reality. > [@](#): > > McQueary testified that he saw Sandusky and a boy, 10 to 12 years of age, in the shower at the school’s football training facility. McQueary described what he said was a sex act being committed by Sandusky on the boy, who was facing a shower wall with his arms raised. McQueary told of seeing Sandusky’s midsection moving. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4658 "2012-10-01T21:52:00Z")
And now I’m going to the gym, having dinner and possibly having sex with my (adult) girlfriend. Thats the last you’ll hear of me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4659 "2012-10-01T21:53:02Z")
No really. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4660 "2012-10-01T21:54:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So now I think I’ve reached the point I reached once before with you lot where I finally decided that sometimes you just have to let idiots be idiots, that after a certain point there’s simply nothing to be done about it…though goodness knows I’ve tried. I know exactly how you feel. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4661 "2012-10-01T22:18:14Z")
Okay, since I asked this quy a question I think it’s only right I come back in to respond. > [@Loach](#): > > Give me a cite in which the jury said that what McQueary described was not rape. You’ve looked into it so deep that should be easy. Do you think that it is possible that they concluded that the testimony was consistent with rape but without the testimony of the victim it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? I think the jury’s verdict speaks for itself. If they felt McQueary’s testimony was persuasive of rape they’d have convicted Sandusky of it. Any acquittal could be questioned on the basis that if only the jury had had more or different evidence they might have found differently. > [@Loach](#): > > The reason why you are deluded and unhinged is because you have put such energy and are unwavering in your argument. The fact that you interpret a couple words of a statement and built an entire scenario around it. You are way too invested. You have won nothing. To think that you have means you are severely detached from reality. I’ve put such energy into this thread mainly because I’m a huge, decades-long admirer of Joe Paterno and I’ve been incensed almost beyond belief at the way people jumped to conclusions and assumed the worst about this very fine man who lived a life of integrity and many good works. Second, because I was astounded at the amount of sheer idiocy and emotionality than people were indulging in in regard to this issue. I have never beforein my life seen a vicious unthinking lynch mob mentality in action and I was so thoroughly repulsed by it that I found myself compelled to fight it as strongly as I could. Third, and probably the strongest motivator of all, being called a pedophile or pedophile enabler for no reason other than for suggesting that people wait until evidence supports it for condemning Joe Paterno and later for coming to the realization that McQueary’s description of Sandusky’s position wasn’t consistent with rape. People didn’t want to look at the evidence and they weren’t interested in trying to get at the truth, they just wanted to crucify Paterno and Penn State and anyone who tried to defend them, and once the pedophile accusations started I decided okay, if you assholes want a fight, I’ll damn well give you one! And giving them one is the reason for my long and hard fought participation in this thread. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4662 "2012-10-01T22:28:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That is, of course, why I’m widely known on this board as The Brilliant Adonis. People can be so _cruel_… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=232) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=234)