# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 266
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5303 "2012-10-09T16:43:28Z")
Maybe “we” means “child molesters soon to be severely beaten in prison.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5304 "2012-10-09T17:10:23Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Also, I am not finding anything about UM’s police chief committing suicide. I find a ton of articles about the chief from EASTERN Michigan killing himself. Do you have a name for that guy? “Let me make one up. I’ll get back to you in a few minutes, Okay???” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5305 "2012-10-09T17:15:00Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > [A story about Stephen Jensen.](http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/15/nation/la-na-nn-penn-state-michigan-sex-allegations-20120715) > > Here’s the difference. When people realized that the allegations had not been reported to the authorities in a timely manner (more due to neglect than a cover-up), they actually did something and reported it to the proper authorities, rather than just saying “Lah-de-dah, must be fine” and allowing him to go on downloading kiddie porn for a decade. Trouble is, nothing like that happened at Penn State. Or at least we have no evidence of it. Here’s the chronology of what the evidence shows so far: 1. Sandusky was investigated two years prior to the McQueary incident for hugging a kid in the shower. That child’s mother complained and the incident was investigated by the police who found no criminal wrongdoing and the complaint was dropped. 2. McQueary saw Sandusky in the shower with a child in what appeared to be a compromising position. He assumed what he saw was anal rape. He gave various accounts of what he saw to his father, his friend Dr. Dranov, Grand Jury, and the Sandusky trial jury, and to Joe Paterno. To Joe Paterno he said that he witnessed some sort of fondling or form of sexual intercourse. McQueary specifically testified that he made no mention of anal rape or of having seen penile penetration. 3. Joe Paterno made no effort whatsoever to cover up anything Mike McQueary tol him. He reported exactly what he was told and he reported it to the proper authorities in exactly the proper longstanding protocol established at the behest of the local police themselves. 4. As far as Joe Paterno or any Penn State officials may have known, this could simply have been another misinterpretation of a hug in the shower as was deemed to be the case two years earlier. 5. Thus there was absolutely no reason to suspect that 10 years of oral and anal child rape would ensue, and there has been zero evidence that anyone involved in Penn State’s administration, nor Joe Paterno himself - bears the slightest responsibility for any of the crimes subsequently committed by Jerry Sandusky. You people are condemning them not only for having failed to see the future in their crystal ball, but for it having never occurred to them to look into one in the first place. Simply put, _you’re behaving like idiots!_ ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5306 "2012-10-09T17:28:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. As far as Joe Paterno or any Penn State officials may have known, this could simply have been **another misinterpretation of a hug in the shower** as was deemed to be the case two years earlier. You should really stop saying stupid shit like that if you don’t want people to think you’re a pedophile, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5307 "2012-10-09T17:33:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. As far as Joe Paterno or any Penn State officials may have known, this could simply have been another misinterpretation of a hug in the shower as was deemed to be the case two years earlier. This Paterno chap sounds a bit dim, wot? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5308 "2012-10-09T17:34:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. As far as Joe Paterno or any Penn State officials may have known, this could simply have been another misinterpretation of a hug in the shower as was deemed to be the case two years earlier. This is ridiculously charitable to Mr. Paterno and company, as well as a ridiculously low estimate of their intelligence. After the second report of naked hugs (or worse) with children, it’s clear enough to any thinking person that, at the very least, this is a person that should not be alone with children. Paterno did not live in some fantasy world of the 50s in which perversion was unthinkable- he was a man who lived in the real world. He served for a short time in the Army- and anyone who’s served in the military can tell you that you become aware of pretty much every disgusting thing humans do to each other pretty damn quick. JoePa (and not just him, but those in the Penn State hierarchy who knew) had a duty to society that they failed. JoePa chose to put his own reputation and the reputation of Penn State above the protection of children. > [@](#): > > 1. Thus there was absolutely no reason to suspect that 10 years of oral and anal child rape would ensue, and there has been zero evidence that anyone involved in Penn State’s administration, nor Joe Paterno himself - bears the slightest responsibility for any of the crimes subsequently committed by Jerry Sandusky. Comical. “No reason to suspect…”- maybe in Mayberry, but in the real word, adults are aware that this kind of behavior exists. JoePa and the Penn State admin (at the time) absolutely share part of the responsibility for the crimes committed by Sandusky that took place at least after the second allegation of inappropriate behavior with children. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5309 "2012-10-09T17:39:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. Sandusky was investigated two years prior to the McQueary incident for hugging a kid in the shower. That child’s mother complained and the incident was investigated by the police who found no criminal wrongdoing and the complaint was dropped. > > [snip] > > 1. As far as Joe Paterno or any Penn State officials may have known, this could simply have been another misinterpretation of a hug in the shower as was deemed to be the case two years earlier. I encourage anyone to read [this account](http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/retired-detective-describes-1998-sandusky-investigation-224764/) of the original investigation of what **SA** euphemizes as “a hug in the shower” and see whether you agree with the implication that the whole thing was just a big misunderstanding and Sandusky was acting completely innocently. And also to bear in mind that despite his lies to the contrary, Paterno knew about this investigation. And that Sandusky’s not being prosecuted two years earlier did not afford him a lifetime pass on being suspected of child molestation. Someone who ISN’T struggling desperately to make excuses (and who read the details in the link above) might even conclude that he deserved MORE scrutiny, not less. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5310 "2012-10-09T17:41:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You should really stop saying stupid shit like that if you don’t want people to think you’re a pedophile, you know. A hug in the shower may be (but not necessarily, as I’m sure that over the course of history there’ve been many perfectly innocent and heterosexual sports related hugs between men and boys in showers all over the world) an indicator of inapropriate sexual behavior or it may not, but it certainly isn’t conclusive and it certainly isn’t something sufficient to warrant automatic assumptions of child rape. I know you’re really hung up on this hug in the shower thing, but a hug in the shower isn’t oral sex and it isn’t anal rape, and unless you want to paint the cops who investigated the previous hug with the same pedophile brush you love to take swipes at me with, you need to give this ridicuous equivalence a rest. ---
**Author:** ![NoLittlePlans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoLittlePlans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoLittlePlans)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5311 "2012-10-09T17:47:16Z")
Just surprised we’re not seeing more outrage directed at the university that: [ul] [li]Proactively covered up allegations against a proven on-campus pedophile.[/li][li]Shamed/scorned/intimidated the whistleblower into tears for exposing the university to potentially negative publicity.[/li][li]Supported the pedophile in his pursuit of becoming a trusted pediatrician with unrestricted access to the university’s on-campus student/faculty/medical facilities.[/li][/ul] Wondering what he’s gotta do to get some attention, [Stephen Jenson](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4t-5-PCYAAdznc.jpg) asks, “Are you not entertained??” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5312 "2012-10-09T17:48:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > JoePa chose to put his own reputation and the reputation of Penn State above the protection of children. Nonsense. He reported exactly what he was told to exactly whom he was supposed to report it the very next day. It is idiotic to claim he did nothing. > [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > And that Sandusky’s not being prosecuted two years earlier did not afford him a lifetime pass on being suspected of child molestation. The Gentle Reader will note this colorful phrasing is **Vinyl Turnip’s** and that no thinking person - i.e., _me_ - ever said any such thing. 😃 But to your false point: the matter was dropped - that is, no prosecutable criminal action was found to have taken place. You know, just like I said. ---
**Author:** ![NoLittlePlans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoLittlePlans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoLittlePlans)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5313 "2012-10-09T17:52:56Z")
In his prepared remarks, Judge Cleland also explained the deceit of a pedophile and the anguish that brings to those who have been deceived by a person who often times is a trusted and respected member of the community. “It is very often the case that they are trusted,” Cleland said. "It is hard for the average citizen to understand why pedophiles are not found and caught. The very nature is to ingratiate with parents and children. Establish trust, commit and then conceal crimes. “Those who have never encountered a pedophile can hardly begin to understand the anguish of knowing that you’ve been deceived.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5314 "2012-10-09T17:55:50Z")
Well, we can be outraged about Jenson at our leisure. Right now, we’re chatting about Paterno, Sandusky and Starving Artist. What’s it to _you_ how we decide to allocate our RO time? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5315 "2012-10-09T17:57:35Z")
> [@NoLittlePlans](#): > > Just surprised we’re not seeing more outrage directed at the university that: > [ul] > [li]Proactively covered up allegations against a proven on-campus pedophile.[/li][li]Shamed/scorned/intimidated the whistleblower into tears for exposing the university to potentially negative publicity.[/li][li]Supported the pedophile in his pursuit of becoming a trusted pediatrician with unrestricted access to the university’s on-campus student/faculty/medical facilities.[/li][/ul] > > Wondering what he’s gotta do to get some attention, [Stephen Jenson](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4t-5-PCYAAdznc.jpg) asks, “Are you not entertained??” Much of the problem is that Jenson is not a well-known conservative icon coaching in a sport well-known to be loved by conservatives for its well-known conservative characteristics such as hard work, discipline, individual responsibility, respect for authority, etc., etc., etc. who also had the effrontery to have had his photograph taken with George W. Bush, as was pointed out to me early in the thread as a likely explanation for my gall in suggesting that people wait for actual evidence before jumping to the ridiculous assumptions they were as to Paterno’s guilt…up to and including his being a knowing and happy pedophile and kiddie-raper himself. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5316 "2012-10-09T17:58:17Z")
Hey, that’s pretty deranged. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5317 "2012-10-09T18:00:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. As far as Joe Paterno or any Penn State officials may have known, this could simply have been **another misinterpretation of a hug in the shower** as was deemed to be the case two years earlier. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You should really stop saying stupid shit like that if you don’t want people to think you’re a pedophile, you know. Followed closely by … > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … (but not necessarily, as I’m sure that over the course of history there’ve been many perfectly innocent and heterosexual sports related hugs between men and boys in showers all over the world) … The man will just not listen to solid advice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5318 "2012-10-09T18:04:13Z")
Well, at least he’s not defending Paterno and Sandusky anymore… he’s defending conservatism. I guess that’s progress, of a sort. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5319 "2012-10-09T18:07:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m sure that over the course of history there’ve been many perfectly innocent and heterosexual sports related hugs between men and boys in showers all over the world Are you kidding? I played multiple sports through high school, college, and afterwards (not to mention many group showers in the military), and I have never ever seen two naked men or boys (or man and boy) hug in the shower. Not a single time. I’ve never even heard of it. One naked hug in the shower between a man and a child would make me pretty damn suspicious- two is a damn near certainty that there’s something disgusting going on. Where do you get this stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5320 "2012-10-09T18:08:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > A hug in the shower may be (but not necessarily, as I’m sure that over the course of history there’ve been many perfectly innocent and heterosexual sports related hugs between men and boys in showers all over the world) an indicator of inapropriate sexual behavior or it may not, but it certainly isn’t conclusive and it certainly isn’t something sufficient to warrant automatic assumptions of child rape. Seriously Starving. Who played hide the soap with you as a kid? I’m here to listen, not to judge. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5321 "2012-10-09T18:08:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nonsense. He reported exactly what he was told to exactly whom he was supposed to report it the very next day. It is idiotic to claim he did nothing. I’m not saying he did _nothing_. I’m saying he _didn’t do enough_. Do you think he did enough? I think he had a duty to society to either make sure Sandusky is not alone around children anymore, or make absolutely sure that Sandusky is not a danger to children. He did neither. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5322 "2012-10-09T18:08:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. Sandusky was investigated two years prior to the McQueary incident for hugging a kid in the shower. That child’s mother complained and the incident was investigated by the police who found no criminal wrongdoing and the complaint was dropped. > > 2. McQueary saw Sandusky in the shower with a child in what appeared to be a compromising position. He assumed what he saw was anal rape. He gave various accounts of what he saw to his father, his friend Dr. Dranov, Grand Jury, and the Sandusky trial jury, and to Joe Paterno. To Joe Paterno he said that he witnessed some sort of fondling or form of sexual intercourse. McQueary specifically testified that he made no mention of anal rape or of having seen penile penetration. > > 3. Joe Paterno made no effort whatsoever to cover up anything Mike McQueary tol him. He reported exactly what he was told and he reported it to the proper authorities in exactly the proper longstanding protocol established at the behest of the local police themselves. Paterno reported McQueary’s allegation to Tim Curley and Gary Schultz. How can that be “longstanding protocol” if the allegation from “two years prior”, and the only similar incident you mention, was reported to, and investigated by, the police? Also, where are you getting the information that reporting to Curley and Schulz was “at the behest of the local police themselves”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=265) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=267)