# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 269
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5363 "2012-10-10T15:41:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Absolutely meaningless. The Grand Jury’s place is merely to see whether some minimal standard of evidence exists to suggest that a crime has been committed. It’s up to the trial jury to drill down and make the final determination as to whether the alleged crime has in fact been committed. Again, like **Loach** you seem unable to make the distinction between the funtion of these two disparate juries. > > Meh. Who’s looking into it? We’ve got his lawyer’s statement and that’s it. Maybe tapes exist and maybe they don’t. And you seem to be the only one who doesn’t understand the difference between the words “probable” and “impossible.” Time to move the goal posts again. The tapes were released the same day victim #2 came forward. I’m sure you can find them online without any problems. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5364 "2012-10-10T15:50:15Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > That’s not what the NCAA found – hence, no more Paterno record in the annals of the sport. And so the idiotic hysteria continues. Here is a man who lived his life by higher standards than most by far, was responsible for improving the lives of countless students through the years, both academically and athletically, who was responsible for growing Penn State University into the fine school and program it became, and who reported accurately and in full the very next day exactly what he was told when Mike McQueary came to him to make his vague but impassioned case that Jerry Sandusky, a former employee several years removed from Paterno’s athletic program, was engaging in “some form” of sexual impropriety with a young boy in the school’s shower, and he reported it exactly as he should have according to established protocol as requested years earlier by the police themselves. Paterno was initially praised for coming forth as he did and nothing was made of his having “done the bare minimum” until the hysteria following the Grand Jury investigation and the bragging of a Pennsylvania police official who implied that if Paterno had only come to them the case would have been resolved at the time and ten year’s worth of abuse would have been aborted…none of which can remotely be assumed as fact, btw. Still, I’m reminded of Joe Paterno’s comment some years back when a bowl loss to an opponent was overturned by the NCAA due a penalty imposed on the winning team a year or two later for some technical infraction of NCAA rules. Paterno’s view on being handed the bowl victory? “My players know who won that game.” Good on ya, Joe. We know who won those games. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5365 "2012-10-10T16:00:00Z")
SA, you crazy loathsome bastard. Not one single person agrees with you as to your interpretation. Not one. This is a message board that can generate heated arguments over topics from voter ID to abortion to circumcision to who belongs in the rock and roll hall of fame to the merits of Avatar. Nevertheless, you have singularly united this board in perceiving you as a loon. A stark raving loon. I have always regarded your contributions as puerile, vapid, and distracting. So, I couldn’t be more pleased that for years to come, anything you post on the SDMB will be disregarded as coming from that paper towel tube equal child sex appreciator. I admit that I am torn between wanting you to just go away and wanting you to continue to just promise that you are going away while compulsively returning each and every time. I think I prefer the latter, because just when I think you’ve reached the lower bound of your ridiculousness, you keep pushing the envelope like some kind of skeevy Chuck Yeager. Skeeve on, creepy dude! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5366 "2012-10-10T16:00:54Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > That’s not what the NCAA found – hence, [**no more Paterno record in the annals of the sport**](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/penn-state-stripped-of-112-wins-joe-paterno-no-longer-winningest-coach/2012/07/23/gJQAN64J4W_blog.html). Huh. Staving Artist is indeed a lying sack of shit, but this action by the NCAA strikes me as unnecessary, and indeed more punishing to the players than to Paterno who remains, as far as I know, dead. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5367 "2012-10-10T16:05:03Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And you seem to be the only one who doesn’t understand the difference between the words “probable” and “impossible.” Sure I do. What you don’t seem to understand is that… It. Doesn’t. Matter. I’ve used the word “impossible” several times and in different ways in this thread and they all boil down to the same thing: what McQueary described doesn’t add up to anal rape, and the trial jury agreed. So it’s a done deal. You can quibble over semantics all you like but it doesn’t make a hair’s breadth of difference in the outcome. I was right. Get over it. Stop trying to find some way - any way - in which to proclaim I was wrong about _something_ and get on with your life. Don’t you have a fiance or new wife or someone to spend quality time with instead of hanging out here endlessly trying to find some way to prove that I’ve been wrong about some inconsequential comment I’ve made in a 5,000+ post thread? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5368 "2012-10-10T16:05:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > it is to laugh Rue the day? Who talks like that? You know Starving, there are many brands of decaf on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5369 "2012-10-10T16:06:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Still, I’m reminded of Joe Paterno’s comment some years back when a bowl loss to an opponent was overturned by the NCAA I’m reminded of his more famous comment “Keep fuckin those 8 year olds, Jerry” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5370 "2012-10-10T16:07:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The governing point is that I found McQueary’s description of what he saw to be inconsistent with what I would have expected to be the case in the even of actual rape (the differences in their height, Sandusky’s age, he was “standing,” the boy’s expression evinced no distress or discomfort, the unlikelihood he would choose that time and place to engage in sexual activity in such an uncomfortable position, etc. It all just didn’t add up. And for whatever reason the jury agreed with me. > > So I win…and you don’t. Nope. The jury did not agree with you- you are (hilariously) certain rape was impossible (do you know of anyone who agrees with you on this?). The jury found reasonable doubt that rape took place. There is a _massive_ difference. You’ve said that it’s not impossible for a tall person and a short person to engage in sex in the same position. But at the same time you say that it’s impossible for Sandusky to have committed the rape. How does this jive? We’ve established that a 20 degree knee bend (from straight-legs) will lower a person about a foot, and such a knee-bend angle can _clearly_ still be identified as “standing”. Many people have tried your paper towel experiment and reported success. You just dismiss any evidence contrary to your ridiculous conclusion. You’ve lost so many times you’re not even in the game any more. You’re comically pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5371 "2012-10-10T16:10:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve used the word “impossible” several times and in different ways in this thread and they all boil down to the same thing: what McQueary described doesn’t add up to anal rape, and the trial jury agreed. The jury found reasonable doubt. You are certain rape could not have happened. It wouldn’t matter to you if security camera footage came out showing the rape- you would dismiss it as “vigorous hugging” or something. Your mysterious and ridiculous ways continue to amuse me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5372 "2012-10-10T16:12:06Z")
(bolding mine) > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Here is a man who lived his life by higher standards than most by far, was responsible for improving the lives of countless students through the years, both academically and athletically, who was responsible for growing Penn State University into the fine school and program it became, and who reported accurately and in full the very next day exactly what he was told when Mike McQueary came to him to make his vague but impassioned case that Jerry Sandusky, **a former employee several years removed from Paterno’s athletic program** ,… You keep saying this as if it somehow exonerates Paterno that Sandusky no longer worked for him. Doesn’t it make things worse, in a way? Who else here works in a place where a former employee still hangs around and uses the shower? For that matter, was anyone else surprised at how small the locker room was in the pics that **NoLittlePlans** posted a while ago? This couldn’t have been the locker room used by the football team. There were only a couple dozen lockers. It was small; some might even say secluded. At a facility like Penn State, this looks like the place you’d go for a little privacy. > [@](#): > > …was engaging in “some form” of sexual impropriety with a young boy in the school’s shower, and he **reported it exactly as he should have according to established protocol as requested years earlier by the police themselves.** Paterno was initially praised for coming forth as he did and nothing was made of his having “done the bare minimum” until the hysteria following the Grand Jury investigation and the bragging of a Pennsylvania police official who implied that if Paterno had only come to them the case would have been resolved at the time and ten year’s worth of abuse would have been aborted…none of which can remotely be assumed as fact, btw. I’ll ask this again, where are you getting the information that this form of reporting was requested by the police? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5373 "2012-10-10T16:13:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > SA, you crazy loathsome bastard. Not one single person agrees with you as to your interpretation. The Sandusky trial jury agreed with me that McQueary’s description was not persuasive evidence of rape. And I know for a fact that anyone who disagrees with my position on the difficulty a 6’3" 60-year-old man would have in trying to carry off intercourse in that postion is simply denying reality because it serves their purpose to do so and not because they’re being honest. So I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5374 "2012-10-10T16:15:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve used the word “impossible” several times and in different ways in this thread and they all boil down to the same thing: what McQueary described doesn’t add up to anal rape, and the trial jury agreed. Sorry, but if you are claiming that the trial jury agreed that rape was impossible, you’re a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5375 "2012-10-10T16:19:46Z")
When everyone is denying reality but you, the smart thing to do is reevaluate your position. You’ve opted to go back to the crazy table for a second helping. I say all this, by the way, as someone for whom JoePa was a lifelong hero. I’ve been heartbroken by all this. I have to thank you for providing the one bit of levity to come from the sad sordid matter. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5376 "2012-10-10T16:21:39Z")
I swear, at this point, if Sandusky himself said, “yeah, I tried to rape that kid, but with the height differences, I just couldn’t get my cock into his ass,” SA would go “AHA! I TOLD YOU GUYS! NO RAPE OCCURRED! PATERNO IS VINDICATED ALL HAIL PATERNO” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5377 "2012-10-10T16:22:33Z")
> [@spinky](#): > > Sorry, but if you are claiming that the trial jury agreed that rape was impossible, you’re a fool. That’s a mighty big IF there, partner. Care to cough up a cite that led you to believe such a thing? And why do I suspect a course in remedial reading comprehension might be in order? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5378 "2012-10-10T16:26:19Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > When everyone is denying reality but you, the smart thing to do is reevaluate your position. Everyone isn’t denying reality. There are tons of people in Pennsylvania and elsewhere in the country who feel exactly as I do. Perhaps you’ve seen or read about them in the news. They’re the ones who demonstrated in Paterno’s favor and who are challenging the regents for their handling of this situation. Besides, I’ve pointed out already that once upon a time almost everyone thought the world was flat. Numbers in your favor don’t prove facts. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5379 "2012-10-10T16:27:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s a mighty big IF there, partner. Care to cough up a cite that led you to believe such a thing? > > And why do I suspect a course in remedial reading comprehension might be in order? Before I go searching, you would agree that **if** you said that the rape was impossible and you claimed that the jury agreed with you about that, then you’d be a fool, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5380 "2012-10-10T16:27:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And why do I suspect a course in remedial reading comprehension might be in order? Maybe because of the raw spot you’ve developed on your head from scratching it so much? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5381 "2012-10-10T16:28:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The jury found reasonable doubt. You are certain rape could not have happened. > > It wouldn’t matter to you if security camera footage came out showing the rape- you would dismiss it as “vigorous hugging” or something. Your mysterious and ridiculous ways continue to amuse me. The kid was probably choking on a fish bone or had terrible constipation or something and luckily a big naked ready-soaped guy was there to help. He was like Jesus and Mitt Romney all rolled into one. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5382 "2012-10-10T16:33:45Z")
Even Paterno agreed he should have more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=268) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=270)