# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 272
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5423 "2012-10-10T19:56:39Z")
I’m on my phone, so I’m Flash deprived. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5424 "2012-10-10T19:57:26Z")
And I’m audio deprived. Transcript please? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5425 "2012-10-10T20:02:36Z")
> [@NoLittlePlans](#): > > Or are you more along the lines of those that rush to judgment to claim an early position and closing your eyes and clenching your fists and stubbornly hanging on for dear life no matter what comes? Yes, but I find that with fists clenched it’s harder to stick my fingers in my ears. And you forgot the chanting. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5426 "2012-10-10T20:30:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m on my phone, so I’m Flash deprived. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > And I’m audio deprived. Transcript please? In a nutshell and paraphrasing: "No doubt that on the evidence presented, Sandusky is guilty and justice has been served blah blah blah… \ …he feels that the elaborate cover-up as described by the report are _Freeh’s conclusions_, that we’ve yet to hear from the other people involved (sans Paterno of course) and once that testimony is exposed to the public we’ll be able to judge the separate arguments on their merit and take sides." ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5427 "2012-10-10T20:47:25Z")
Thanks, Red. That’s not quite what our esteemed friend said about Costas upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5428 "2012-10-10T20:55:43Z")
Costas seemed to be hedging, in a way that we’re probably all familiar with by now. He said something to the effect that the allegation was that Paterno, et al., knew the full extent of Sandusky’s crimes and conspired to cover it up, and that more disclosure might cast doubt on that. Personally, I haven’t heard anyone claim that the folks at Penn State knew about all of Sandusky’s activities, just that they should have taken stronger action, and sooner, on the things they did know. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5429 "2012-10-10T20:58:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nothing stupid about it. I determined even back last January that that boy wasn’t raped, but were you dipshits happy about that and willing to look at the evidence in hopes I was right? What you did last january was **guess** that he wasn’t raped, based on your idiotic assertion that it was physically impossible. Now that the jury has failed to convict him on that one count, you take that as **proof there was no rape**. This is a massive failure of reasoning, and yet you have the stones to call other people dipshits. Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5430 "2012-10-10T21:06:05Z")
Well, Victim #2 might testify sooner or later in the pending civil suit, and if he claims he was being anally raped that night, I look forward to Starving Artist’s (heh) rebuttal: “How could _he_ know what was going on? His back was turned!” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5431 "2012-10-10T21:54:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, Victim #2 might testify sooner or later in the pending civil suit, and if he claims he was being anally raped that night, I look forward to Starving Artist’s (heh) rebuttal: > > “How could _he_ know what was going on? His back was turned!” He already answered that by moving the goalposts. He will refuse to believe because the standard of proof is lower in a civil court. So basically it won’t matter what the actual victim says, he has already made up his mind. I think the point is moot anyway. No way it goes to trial. Penn State will settle. ---
**Author:** ![NoLittlePlans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoLittlePlans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoLittlePlans)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5432 "2012-10-10T22:05:25Z")
Bryan: The identity of Victim No. 2 has long been known, quietly, by both parties. That he never took the stand in the Sandusky trial was a strategic decision by Joe McGettigan. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5433 "2012-10-10T22:14:17Z")
> [@NoLittlePlans](#): > > Bryan: The identity of Victim No. 2 has long been known, quietly, by both parties. That he never took the stand in the Sandusky trial was a strategic decision by Joe McGettigan. You make a lot of claims, many of them uncited, and many of them of questionable relevance. What does McGettigan’s knowledge (or anyone’s, really) of Vic2’s identity have to do with what I said? ---
**Author:** ![NoLittlePlans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoLittlePlans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoLittlePlans)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5434 "2012-10-10T23:40:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You make a lot of claims, many of them uncited, and many of them of questionable relevance. What does McGettigan’s knowledge (or anyone’s, really) of Vic2’s identity have to do with what I said? The logic behind McGettigan’s decision reassures us that SA wont be backtracking anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5435 "2012-10-10T23:49:59Z")
[sub]why, oh why am I asking this…[/sub] And you would know this logic…how? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5436 "2012-10-11T00:19:10Z")
Maybe an examination of the victim’s anus revealed that his hymen was still intact. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5437 "2012-10-11T00:24:23Z")
Precisely! That’s why SA is so certain that it wasn’t a _legitimate_ rape. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5438 "2012-10-11T01:06:28Z")
> [@NoLittlePlans](#): > > The logic behind McGettigan’s decision reassures us that SA wont be backtracking anytime soon. Aristotle himself could come back from the dead and say “Cardboard tube, really?” and SA wouldn’t be backtracking anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5439 "2012-10-11T03:40:09Z")
I live in Pennsylvania. Quite a number of people around here were calling for Sandusky’s head on a platter. In fact, Franco Harris, a goddamned hero here in Pittsburgh, was pretty much pillared in the media for defending Paterno. So don’t presume to speak for those of us in PA. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So once again the meme is "Since we can’t beat **SA** on the Paterno/Penn State cover up evidence and the rape we were so sure happened but didn’t, let’s concoct a load of horseshit to try make him look bad because it’s our only hope to come out on top. > > :D:D:D > > Won’t work, kiddos. > > I was right and you were wrong. Flail all you like, there’s simply no way around it. Actually, some of us find it rather disturbing that you seem to be ignoring the actual issue – that there _were_ children being abused by Sandusky, and Penn State DID cover it up. (If not in this particular instance, there were other ones). You seem so focused on this one issue, that you’re forgetting the real victims here. Not Paterno. Not Penn State. It strikes me as incredibly cold. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5440 "2012-10-11T05:50:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I know for a fact that anyone who disagrees with my position on the difficulty a 6’3" 60-year-old man would have in trying to carry off intercourse in that postion is simply denying reality because it serves their purpose to do so and not because they’re being honest. I’m curious about your logic on this one. I’ve done your test and I say it’s no problem. You say it’s a problem but you don’t say whether you’ve done your test or not. What data are you basing your conclusion on? Just speculating? Or have you watched others attempt the test and fail? ---
**Author:** ![NoLittlePlans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoLittlePlans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoLittlePlans)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5441 "2012-10-11T06:08:46Z")
Sounds about right, Bryan, lol… but SA truly deserves recognition for pretty much flying solo in this 100-page uphill battle. I think he’s made a bunch of very reasonable points, but I’m not sure the audience has been completely open to reason. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I live in Pennsylvania. Quite a number of people around here were calling for Sandusky’s head on a platter. In fact, Franco Harris, a goddamned hero here in Pittsburgh, was pretty much pillared in the media for defending Paterno. So don’t presume to speak for those of us in PA. Which is why he’ll be such a rock star when it’s revealed that Franco Harris was right the entire time. The guy never gave a flying flip how he might look to the outside world for standing up in support of his inner-most beliefs and convictions. It will be quite a scene on that day of redemption for Franco Harris. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, some of us find it rather disturbing that you seem to be ignoring the actual issue – that there _were_ children being abused by Sandusky, Guina, since you, like most of us, found yourself so eyes-wide-shut in shock over the violations of humanity inflicted upon these children, can you share some of the ways in which you personally answered the call of duty and stepped up to support these poor kids who are fighting a losing battle against an epidemic of child sexual abuse that will claim 1 in 5 American kids as victims before their 18th birthday? > [@Guinastasia](#): > > and Penn State DID cover it up. (If not in this particular instance, there were other ones). Spoken like a true rookie overwhelmed by the big leagues. Really, kid, they oughtta drop ya down to AAA so you can work on your swings (and misses). QUOTE=Guinastasia;15578197]You seem so focused on this one issue, that you’re forgetting the real victims here. Not Paterno. Not Penn State. [/QUOTE] Wrong again, G-Unit. Paterno and Penn State are not victims of misjustice until people like you falsely declare guilty convictions of complicity in covering up the most incomprehensible violations of humanity to protect a brand from bad publicity. The easiest way to make people like you understand the error of their ways is to experience first-hand the sudden, cold jolt of lightning that strikes through your body upon learning that you’ve been accused of, say, molesting your best friend’s kid. Doesn’t matter what the truth is when everyone believes you’re a sick f\*\*\*ing monster that would be better off dead. That’s not the kind of stain that comes out in the laundry, know what I mean? Unlike you, SA didn’t drum up a new batch of victims in uncontrollable fits of emotional outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5442 "2012-10-11T06:28:08Z")
> [@NoLittlePlans](#): > > Which is why he’ll be such a rock star when it’s revealed that Franco Harris was right the entire time. The guy never gave a flying flip how he might look to the outside world for standing up in support of his inner-most beliefs and convictions. It will be quite a scene on that day of redemption for Franco Harris. What information do you think will be revealed that will prove him right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=271) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=273)