# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 294
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5863 "2012-12-11T14:35:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, that’d make you a better Paterno than Paterno was. Congrats. Not to mention a better **Starving Artist**. The one we’re saddled with has shown nothing but delighted zeal for diving headlong and ankle-deep into the “gory details”-- actual, probable and fanciful. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@The\_Dord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Dord)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5864 "2012-12-11T23:16:38Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Why? Is he squatting? No he’s wearing SA’s socks behind the proxy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5865 "2012-12-11T23:38:44Z")
It’s clear that you people have certain shortcomings when it comes to discernment, but can you really not perceive **NLP’s** greater skills as a wordsmith and grammarian than those of yours truly? Plus he’s much more tuned in to happenings on and near the Penn State campus. If I had access to the locker room photos and other exculpatory information he’s posted (or been arsed to look for them myself), don’t you think I’d have coughed them up long before **NLP** made his arrival? Or for that matter, why would it be necessary to invent his personna in order to reveal it? No, kids, I’m afraid this is just one more of the many ways you’ve been wrong about things in this thread. Try to engage your brains and think about what you’ve read for a change and perhaps you’ll be able to see that. And thanks, **NLP** , for the Twitter suggestion, but my hands are full enough with this (albeit dwindling in the face of withering facts) crowd. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5866 "2012-12-12T00:01:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Could you be more specific about this? What “sexual problem when it comes to children” do you consider “not serious”? In the deafening silence that has met your question, we can only assume **SA** might suggest things like inexperience, lack of lubrication, etc. as examples of minor sexual problems one may need to resolve when children are involved. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5867 "2012-12-12T00:23:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > In the deafening silence that has met your question, we can only assume **SA** might suggest things like inexperience, lack of lubrication, etc. as examples of minor sexual problems one may need to resolve when children are involved. Maybe he was only a part-time child molester. You know, only a hobby- he could quit anytime he liked. So Joe Pat thought it was no big deal… it would probably take care of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5868 "2012-12-12T00:37:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Could you be more specific about this? What “sexual problem when it comes to children” do you consider “not serious”? > [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > In the deafening silence that has met your question, we can only assume SA might suggest things like inexperience, lack of lubrication, etc. as examples of minor sexual problems one may need to resolve when children are involved. No, actually I just overlooked it. To some people - and there have been some in this thread - there is no difference in sexually oriented behavior involving a child. One Dumas even went so far as to state openly that to touch a child on the leg was as bad as raping him or her. To those of us based in reality however, there is a wide range of behaviors that, while sexually oriented on the part of the instigator, may be fairly innocuous from the point of view of the child, or which the child might be completely unaware of. And to the degree the child is aware that something is going on, there is a range of awareness that goes from something slightly out of the ordinary to something odd to something mystifying to something creepy to something that is outright sexual touching to something that involves full-on oral or anal rape, and each step along the way denotes an increase in the seriousness of both the offense and the degree of harm to the child, if indeed there is any, which there may not be all, especially with the more benign forms of sexual abuse which involve touching or embracing that results in some form of stimulation to the offender but appears totally innocuous to the child or an outside observer. This is why we have different charges and degrees of offense for different types of sexual crimes, and why we have a range of different punishments. Thus when I said what I did about my belief that Paterno, once he became convinced that Sandusky had a sexual problem with children, had no idea how serious it was, I meant that I believed he had no idea that Sandusky was engaging in behavior that was harmful or traumatizing to the children involved, and most especially that he had no idea that it involved subjecting them to oral and anal sex. So there! How do ya like them apples? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5869 "2012-12-12T00:51:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Thus when I said what I did about my belief that Paterno, once he became convinced that Sandusky had a sexual problem with children, had no idea how serious it was, **I meant that I believed he had no idea that Sandusky was engaging in behavior that was harmful or traumatizing to the children involved** , and most especially that he had no idea that it involved subjecting them to oral and anal sex. (bolding mine) See folks? Paterno thought Sandusky was engaging in sexual behavior with children that was _not_ harmful or traumatizing to the child. He thought it was just the gentle, playful sort of sexual behavior with children. Anyone could make that mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5870 "2012-12-12T01:02:31Z")
Hey, nothing wrong with shower hugs and naked horseplay. It happened all the time back in the 'fifties, before America was led down the wrong path by filthy hippies. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5871 "2012-12-12T01:26:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You proved no such thing and I said no such thing. If you can prove I said it’s impossible for a 6’3" person to squat to that level, I’ll leave this thread and never return. And I’ll suggest to you that if you can’t prove I said such a thing, that you leave the thread and never return, for you have a history of lying that I’m tired of having to contend with/ignore. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > So 6’3" Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible. Note this key phrase: nigh on impossible. I’ve proved you wrong again. 2 points RP, 0 points SA. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5872 "2012-12-12T01:30:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > One Dumas even went so far as to state openly that to touch a child on the leg was as bad as raping him or her. Cite? Unless it was ZPG Zealot. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5873 "2012-12-12T01:37:54Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Cite? > > Unless it was ZPG Zealot. I wager 14 SDMB bucks that **Starving Artist** will not find a post supporting the requested cite. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5874 "2012-12-12T01:42:21Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Note this key phrase: > nigh on impossible. > I’ve proved you wrong again. > > 2 points RP, 0 points SA. The only thing this proves is that if you selectively quote part of a SA post, you can make the incorrectness of your own post less obvious. (This is in reference to the difference between squatting alone versus squatting and thrusting.) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5875 "2012-12-12T01:49:47Z")
My contention: based on scientific evidence, squatting and thrusting is physically possible **Starving Artist’s** contention: that it’s impossible Are you saying that you interpret **Starving Artist’s** position as “it is possible”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5876 "2012-12-12T02:02:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, nothing wrong with shower hugs and naked horseplay. It happened all the time back in the 'fifties, before America was led down the wrong path by filthy hippies. To this day, nobody ever thanked us. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5877 "2012-12-12T02:08:42Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > My contention: based on scientific evidence, squatting and thrusting is physically possible > > **Starving Artist’s** contention: that it’s impossible > > Are you saying that you interpret **Starving Artist’s** position as “it is possible”? I never said squatting and thrusting were impossible, just like I never said, as your brother-in-dishonesty **iiandyiiii** keeps claiming, that it’s impossible for a tall man to have sex with a short person. I note you’ve failed to take me up on my challenge to prove it, which would have guaranteed that one of us would have to drop out of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5878 "2012-12-12T02:15:48Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > My contention: based on scientific evidence, squatting and thrusting is physically possible > > **Starving Artist’s** contention: that it’s impossible > > Are you saying that you interpret **Starving Artist’s** position as “it is possible”? No. I’m saying that your claim in post #5765 did not mention squatting and thrusting, and SA, in denying your claim in #5766, also referred to squatting alone. However, your SA quote featuring “nigh on impossible” was referring to thrusting. So it did not address your original claim and the statement SA denied having made. [I have not kept track of what claims SA has made in this thread. I’m only addressing this last exchange, and saying that your cite does not address the current dispute. I have no idea if he might have made that claim elsewhere.] ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5879 "2012-12-12T02:16:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I never said squatting and thrusting were impossible, just like I never said, as your brother-in-dishonesty **iiandyiiii** keeps claiming, that it’s impossible for a tall man to have sex with a short person. > > I note you’ve failed to take me up on my challenge to prove it, which would have guaranteed that one of us would have to drop out of the thread. I interpret this statement: “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" as indicating it’s impossible. Am I misinterpreting? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5880 "2012-12-12T02:17:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …which would have guaranteed that one of us would have to drop out of the thread. You mean if someone makes a braying jackass out of themselves, there is some mechanism that will force them to leave? I’d like to know more about that. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5881 "2012-12-12T02:20:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No. I’m saying that your claim in post #5765 did not mention squatting and thrusting, and SA, in denying your claim in #5766, also referred to squatting alone. My statement originally was that I proved it is possible to do the thing that he said is impossible by following his scientific research method. I can see that in my post I said “squat” only and in his post he responded to that, but my post was short hand after zillions of other posts. My claim, which I am happy to be very clear and up front about is: I tried his scientific research method and it turned out to be possible ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5882 "2012-12-12T02:21:08Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Cite? > > Unless it was ZPG Zealot. Okay, kiddies, remember all those times when you’ve claimed I would never admit I was wrong and I always pointed out how I do indeed admit to having been wrong on those [rare] occasions when it happens? Well, gather 'round 'cause this is one of those times. The post I was thinking of is located on page 24 of this thread and was posted by your hysteric-in-arms **Huerta88** , who said in response to an interview given by Jerry Sandusky: > [@](#): > > The tone was wrong, the affect was wrong, it was just stupid. > > Not a shred of remorse, naturally. I think the sociopath has talked himself into believing his own crap. Horseplay. **Touching boys on the leg (WTF?) but not in a sexual way.** > > From the tone of the interview, though, those (self included) who have been speculating (hoping?) that he might solve the problem for us may have a long time to wait. He’s apparently made up his mind that playing the doddering misunderstood grandfatherly patsy who doggone it just wanted to horse around a little, he loved being around kids and their energy so much, is the route to go. Not much of a card to play, but it seems like he’ll play it for the long haul. \ Note the incredulity of the notion that someone might touch a boy on the leg without it being in a sexual way. That is clearly a pretty stupid opinion to have, but I nevertheless seem to have transmogrified it into a statement which was worse than it originally was, and for that I [del]humbly[/del], well, not so humbly - let’s not get carried away - apologize. Mea culpa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=293) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=295)