# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 295
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5883 "2012-12-12T02:39:46Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I interpret this statement: > “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" > > as indicating it’s impossible. > Am I misinterpreting? Yes, because you’re failing to take into account the age and likely state of physical conditioning of Jerry Sandusky at the time, plus the degree of strength, balance and endurance that he would have had to exert in order to successfully carry out copulation in that stance. These are all aspects to the act that I’ve spelled out quite clearly as being contributing factors in the difficulty Sandusky would have faced in attempting intercourse in such a position. With regard to the issue of “impossibility,” I came up with the paper towel tube test to illustrate for the disbelieving the very difficulty a person would encounter trying to have intercourse in this position, with the tube itself intended to assure that people didn’t do what appear to have done, which was simply to squat down, pump a couple of times, and call it a win. No, the purpose was that it was to be held out from the body as the entry to another person would be positioned and that forward thrusting movements identical to what would be required in an actual act of sex in that position be carried out and maintained for the length of time necessary to complete the act. After some weeks went by and none of my otherwise eager-to-prove-me-wrong adversaries seemed able to come forth and declare honestly that they’d successfully passed the paper towel tube test, I boastfully proclaimed sex under those conditions had been proven “impossible.” Now, in light of the fact that you and your comrades have all been proven wrong about Paterno and Curley and Schultz and their motives, and that a jury has agreed with me that McQueary’s account does not support a conviction of rape, you are desperately seeking to eke out some sort of victory over me by trying - usually by verbal sleight-of-hand - to “prove” me wrong as to whether sex in that position is impossible. Trouble is, my assertion pertained to Jerry Sandusky specifically, and unless you can somehow demonstrate that he could have performed the act under those circumstances and in that state of conditioning, you simply have no way to prove whether it would have been impossible for him to do so or not. So, frustration is yours once again! You simply can’t prove me wrong on that issue and you never will! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5884 "2012-12-12T03:17:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, because you’re failing to take into account the age and likely state of physical conditioning of Jerry Sandusky at the time, plus the degree of strength, balance and endurance that he would have had to exert in order to successfully carry out copulation in that stance. These are all aspects to the act that I’ve spelled out quite clearly as being contributing factors in the difficulty Sandusky would have faced in attempting intercourse in such a position. Well it’s hard for me to keep track of all of your backtracking. You repeatedly said " a 6’3" man " and you encouraged us to try the test ourselves. If it’s only Jerry Sandusky that would have a problem why did you keep saying “a 6’3” man" as if the height was the problem? And why did you encourage people that aren’t Jerry Sandusky to take the test if your statement really only applies to Jerry Sandusky? So am I to understand you that your real point is something like: Jerry Sandusky could not possibly have done that because Jerry Sandusky could not do it. The proof is that Jerry Sandusky couldn’t squat and thrust with a paper towel tube. Real solid proof there SA. If I am misrepresenting your position, please clearly post the exact factors regarding who can and can not squat and thrust into the paper towel tube. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5885 "2012-12-12T03:31:50Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Well it’s hard for me to keep track of all of your backtracking. > > You repeatedly said " a 6’3" man " and you encouraged us to try the test ourselves. > > If it’s only Jerry Sandusky that would have a problem why did you keep saying “a 6’3” man" as if the height was the problem? Sorry, I apparently overestimated your ability to carry thought from one post to another. Jerry Sandusky was the 6’3" man who was the subject of the original description as to how difficult intercourse would be in that position, and I didn’t feel it necessary to keep repeating his name over and over and over every time you wanted to play word games or dumbshit **iiandyiiii** wanted to brag about having seen videos of “tall” men banging “short” people, thus allegedly proving me wrong. Specificity as to height was mentioned only to highlight his duplicity, with the idea in mind that those with brains would realize the reference was to Jerry Sandusky. But the point remains I never said “squatting and thrusting” was physically impossible, and you perfectly well know it. You also know perfectly well I’m not the one “backtracking” here. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5886 "2012-12-12T03:51:25Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > My statement originally was that I proved it is possible to do the thing that he said is impossible by following his scientific research method. > > I can see that in my post I said “squat” only and in his post he responded to that, but my post was short hand after zillions of other posts. > My claim, which I am happy to be very clear and up front about is: I tried his scientific research method and it turned out to be possible Well that’s fine. I’m not discussing the merits of his “scientific research method”. I’m just discussing whether in fact you found an instance of him claiming what he denied having claimed. In any event, despite the claim in post #5766 being about squatting alone, he does now appear to deny that he ever said it was impossible to squat and thrust either. So I’m going to let this drop. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5887 "2012-12-12T05:01:09Z")
Has anyone yet explained to Starving Artist why he’s wrong? You guys should try that. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5888 "2012-12-12T05:14:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nope. Have backtracked on nothing; am still winning. > > Cheers. 🙂 Oreally? Let’s look at some, you know facts and your statements > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I said Paterno wasn’t covering up for child rape and he wasn’t. I said the shower rape everyone was so eager to pin on Paterno had not in fact happened, and it didn’t. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ahem…no, dipstick. Paterno isn’t innocent because Sandusky couldn’t fuck two feet off the floor. Paterno is innocent because he is innocent. He never tried to cover up the rape of children. He was never told of the rape of children. He never knew of the rape of children. > > The Sandusky/shower thing vis-a-vis the paper towel tube is important only in that it illustrates that what McQueary thought he saw - which everyone was so certain in the beginning of this thread that Joe Paterno knew about and covered up, heartlessly unconcerned about the pain and suffering of the children being so cruelly abused and concerned only about the welfare of Penn State and his football program - _never happened!!!_ There was never a rape that night! So the crime everyone was so quick to accuse Paterno of knowing about and covering up, and the cruel lack of concern he supposedly had for the children involved, was pure _fiction_!!! Got that??? It was nothing but fiction!!! > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … to paint Joe Paterno as a cruel, sadistic, uncaring asshole and possible pedophile himself, who, concerned only with protecting his friend and football program, happily engaged in a conspiracy to cover up for and enable ten year’s worth of oral and anal child rape. > > And it all turned out to be bullshit! > > And not only that, but bullshit based on a non-existent crime which as it turns out Paterno was never told about in the first place! > And besides, the jury found no rape, and the alleged victim himself said there was no rape! (You know, the one whose lack of testimony was allegedly the reason the jury acquitted Sandusky of the rape charge to begin with? :D) > > So give it the fuck up! I was right, you were wrong! Period! End of story! _La guerre est finis!_ From the Wiki entry on Jerry Sandusky > [@](#): > > The report by a special investigative group headed by former FBI director Louis Freeh had been commissioned by the Penn State Board of Trustees. After interviewing over 400 people and reviewing over 3.5 million documents, the crux of the report’s findings, which were released July 12, 2012, state: > > ``` > Taking into account the available witness statements and evidence, the Special Investigative Counsel finds that it is more reasonable to conclude that, in order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the University — Spanier, Schultz, **Paterno** and Curley — repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse from authorities, the University's Board of Trustees, the Penn State community, and the public at large.[94] > > ``` > > The Freeh Report states that although the “avoidance of the consequences of bad publicity” was the main driver in failing to protect child abuse victims and report to authorities, the report outlines other causes as well, among which were: “A striking lack of empathy for child abuse victims by the most senior leaders of the University”; a failure of oversight by the Board of Trustees; a University President “who discouraged discussion and dissent”; “a lack of awareness of child abuse issues”; and “a culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus community”.[95] > > The report outlines how all four men were aware of the 1998 abuse incident in the locker-room shower, and had followed its investigation at the time.[96] Freeh’s investigation uncovered a file kept by Schultz in which he wrote notes about Sandusky’s 1998 incident. For instance, Schultz wrote: “Is this opening of Pandora’s box?” He also wondered, “other children?”[97] Freeh stated that Schultz had “actively sought to conceal those records”.[98][99] > > The evidentiary weight of Freeh’s report draws heavily upon retrieved emails from 1998 and 2001, which Freeh referred to as “the most important evidence” in the report.[99]\*\* The report asserts that these emails demonstrate that in 1998 Paterno knew of the investigation of Sandusky, and followed it closely;[100] and suggest that it was Paterno, “long regarded as the single most powerful official at the university,” who persuaded Spanier, Curley, and Schultz not to formally report Sandusky to law enforcement or child welfare authorities.\*\* According to The New York Times, the university’s handling of the 2001 report of Sandusky raping a young boy is “one of the most damning episodes laid out by Mr. Freeh’s investigation…”[101]… > The report criticizes Paterno for his failure to “alert the entire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building”.[105]… > Sandusky’s access to Lasch was rescinded in November 2011. In the years previous to that, out of the 10 young boys that Sandusky was convicted of sexually assaulting, most of them were abused after he was investigated in 1998 — with the abuse of at least five of them occurring on the Penn State campus.[106][107] Did you get that? Most of the kids were molested AFTER the investigation that JP was an integral part of occurred. Big Joe isn’t looking so good now is he? Also about the rape that never occurred > [@](#): > > Specifically, Sandusky was convicted of the following charges and counts: eight counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, seven counts of indecent assault, one count of criminal intent to commit indecent assault, nine counts of unlawful contact with minors, 10 counts of corruption of minors and 10 counts of endangering the welfare of children Since all of the victims of crimes were children and children are unable to give consent to sex, that make each of the eight counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse rape. Deviate would be anal, I assume and since the kids are underage, statutory rape, but rape none the less. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5889 "2012-12-12T05:20:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sorry, I apparently overestimated your ability to carry thought from one post to another. Jerry Sandusky was the 6’3" man who was the subject of the original description Ok. So your original point was that it was “nigh on impossible” for only Jerry Sandusky to do it. Your point did not include any other people, right? > [@](#): > > But the point remains I never said “squatting and thrusting” was physically impossible, and you perfectly well know it. You also know perfectly well I’m not the one “backtracking” here. When you posted this: “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" I assumed you meant it was “nigh on impossible”. Did you not really mean it was “nigh on impossible” when you said it was “nigh on impossible”? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5890 "2012-12-12T05:41:19Z")
I don’t know if it’s been asked or not–and I’m not wading through 118 pages to find out either–but here’s a question that occurs to me: given the complete management cockup, indicating that it’s institutional behavior to screw up the management that bad, why hasn’t the school been closed down? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5891 "2012-12-12T05:53:23Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Oreally? Let’s look at some, you know facts and your statements > > From the Wiki entry on Jerry Sandusky > Did you get that? Most of the kids were molested AFTER the investigation that JP was an integral part of occurred. Big Joe isn’t looking so good now is he? > Also about the rape that never occurred > Since all of the victims of crimes were children and children are unable to give consent to sex, that make each of the eight counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse rape. Deviate would be anal, I assume and since the kids are underage, statutory rape, but rape none the less. The Freeh report is largely supposition and guesswork. Lots of conclusions are drawn but little direct evidence is cited. And some is outright fiction. Note the NY Times allegation that _"the university’s handling of the 2001 report of Sandusky raping a young boy is “one of the most damning episodes laid out by Mr. Freeh’s investigation…”_. Trouble is, Paterno was not told it was rape; McQueary testified he did not see thrusting movement or penetration, illustrating what I recognized from the very beginning which was that he merely thought he’d seen rape; the Sandusky jury acquitted Sandusky of that rape in that incident; and most importantly of all…_there was no rape_! This from the horse’s mouth itself, the now grown man who was the boy in the shower that night. Neither Paterno nor Schultz nor Curley were mandated reporters in this instance according to Pennsylvania law, which I quoted earlier in the thread, and they were not in point of fact legally obligated under the law to notify either the police nor the Pennsylvania Dept. of Human Welfare of what was in effect the hearsay they’d been informed of. They apparently believed themselves to be so obligated, thus the concern that their decision to try to force Sandusky to get treatment for his predilections rather than involving the charity and welfare dept. right off the bat. Still they were perfectly willing to do so, and in fact were going to use the threat of those very things to force Sandusky to get help for what all they of at the time was some sort of squirrelly behavior in the shower with kids. And the report can criticize Paterno for anything it wants, but Paterno was not in charge of Sandusky at the time and had not been for three years. Plus he had no idea of what Sandusky was really doing. None of those guys did! So to condemn him for not alerting the entire football staff to prevent him from bringing another child into the Lacsh building is to do nothing less than condemn him for not consulting his crystal ball and seeing into the future, and the same applies to your trying to pin ten years’ and eight anal rapes on him as though they were his fault for not foreseeing and somehow preventing them. Hell, people get raped and murdered in this country every day by people who’ve been released from prisons. Where’s your indignation that the prison’s fortune tellers didn’t foresee their crimes and prevent them as well? It’s utter nonsense! In short, the Freeh report, despite the fact that it undoubtedly contains some elements of fact, is largely an overwrought, emotionally-driven pile of crap that draws largely upon guesswork and supposition and Monday-morning quarterbacking to arrive at its conclusions and a good many of its findings. Mostly it’s an opinion piece cooked up by the likes of many of the people in this thread, eager to view the slightest piece of evidence in the worst possible light and to see vile motives and intentional skullduggery where absolutely none exists. Again, it’s a piece of crap and I’d be surprised if more than a fraction of it will ever be proven in a court of law. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5892 "2012-12-12T05:56:46Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Ok. > > So your original point was that it was “nigh on impossible” for only Jerry Sandusky to do it. > > Your point did not include any other people, right? > > When you posted this: > “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" > > I assumed you meant it was “nigh on impossible”. > > Did you not really mean it was “nigh on impossible” when you said it was “nigh on impossible”? Give it a rest! You aren’t fooling anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5893 "2012-12-12T06:15:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I don’t know if it’s been asked or not–and I’m not wading through 118 pages to find out either–but here’s a question that occurs to me: given the complete management cockup, indicating that it’s institutional behavior to screw up the management that bad, why hasn’t the school been closed down? Good question. The Board of Regents couldn’t seem to flagellate itself enough as it is, eagerly assuming all responsibility and apparently willing to bankrupt itself over the criminal behavior of one man long before anyone knew anything about the university’s true culpability, if any at all. They couldn’t accept quickly enough that Joe Paterno and its administrative staff - and by extension the university itself - were all responsible, even before the barest facts had begun to emerge and no one really knew anything about what any of them had done in actual point of fact, and when this is all said and done Penn State will probably be known as the purveyor of the biggest PR disaster in the history of the country. So they might as well shut it down, there won’t be much left by the time they get through paying off judgements against them from everyone who comes forward claiming Sandusky abused them. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5894 "2012-12-12T06:22:20Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > After interviewing over 400 people and reviewing over 3.5 million documents, So, this thread? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5895 "2012-12-12T06:24:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You aren’t fooling anybody. Exactly. I’m being straight up and honest. And I’m trying to get you to be honest also, by addressing these seeming contradictions. Do you at least see why someone reading those two statements would think you just contradicted yourself? “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" “But the point remains I never said “squatting and thrusting” was physically impossible” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5896 "2012-12-12T07:08:08Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Exactly. I’m being straight up and honest. You’ve rarely been either in this thread and you’re being neither now. You’re playing silly word games…again. And Starvey only plays that long enough to make it obvious what you’re doing each time you start up again. We’ve reached that point now with your alleged squatting/thrusting/6’3" man confusion, and now that I’ve explained it so that only a dunce could still be confused, any further explanation would be pointless. So, ta. (You might want to alert **Enola** , she loves when I say that.) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5897 "2012-12-12T07:40:44Z")
Ok, let’s do an unbiased check. Other posters, would you agree or disagree that these two statements by **Starving Artist** appear to be contradictory? “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" “But the point remains I never said “squatting and thrusting” was physically impossible” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5898 "2012-12-12T13:05:06Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Ok, let’s do an unbiased check. > > Other posters, would you agree or disagree that these two statements by **Starving Artist** appear to be contradictory? > > “So 6’3” Jerry Sandusky would still have been having to carry on thrusting activity two feet off the ground, which I consider to be nigh on impossible" > > “But the point remains I never said “squatting and thrusting” was physically impossible” He didn’t say “impossible”; he said “ **nigh on** impossible”. You have clearly fallen into his clever trap. Except of course that if he didn’t _mean_ “impossible” then his point is moot. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5899 "2012-12-12T13:16:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Neither Paterno nor Schultz nor Curley were mandated reporters in this instance according to Pennsylvania law, which I quoted earlier in the thread, and they were not in point of fact legally obligated under the law to notify either the police nor the Pennsylvania Dept. of Human Welfare of what was in effect the hearsay they’d been informed of. You’ve already been corrected on this as well. The entirety of this thread is based on fantasy out of your own head. Stupid and ignorant re-imaginings of reality that involve benign naked man-boy shower play, lining up 9 year olds, fucking paper towel tubes, squatting and thrusting and the floor to anus height of typical adolescents. Your interpretation of PA law is no different, excepting that it’s less manifestly skeevy. SA, I think it’s time that you moved on from here. Just imagine yourself like Mary Poppins or Nonny McPhee, but with a paper towel tube. There’s a board somewhere else that needs you. You’ve done everything you can for us already. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5900 "2012-12-12T13:27:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The Freeh report is largely supposition and guesswork. Lots of conclusions are drawn but little direct evidence is cited. And some is outright fiction. Note the NY Times allegation that _"the university’s handling of the 2001 report of Sandusky raping a young boy is “one of the most damning episodes laid out by Mr. Freeh’s investigation…”_. > > Trouble is, Paterno was not told it was rape; McQueary testified he did not see thrusting movement or penetration, illustrating what I recognized from the very beginning which was that he merely thought he’d seen rape; the Sandusky jury acquitted Sandusky of that rape in that incident; and most importantly of all…_there was no rape_! This from the horse’s mouth itself, the now grown man who was the boy in the shower that night. > > Neither Paterno nor Schultz nor Curley were mandated reporters in this instance according to Pennsylvania law, which I quoted earlier in the thread, and they were not in point of fact legally obligated under the law to notify either the police nor the Pennsylvania Dept. of Human Welfare of what was in effect the hearsay they’d been informed of. They apparently believed themselves to be so obligated, thus the concern that their decision to try to force Sandusky to get treatment for his predilections rather than involving the charity and welfare dept. right off the bat. Still they were perfectly willing to do so, and in fact were going to use the threat of those very things to force Sandusky to get help for what all they of at the time was some sort of squirrelly behavior in the shower with kids. > > And the report can criticize Paterno for anything it wants, but Paterno was not in charge of Sandusky at the time and had not been for three years. Plus he had no idea of what Sandusky was really doing. None of those guys did! So to condemn him for not alerting the entire football staff to prevent him from bringing another child into the Lacsh building is to do nothing less than condemn him for not consulting his crystal ball and seeing into the future, and the same applies to your trying to pin ten years’ and eight anal rapes on him as though they were his fault for not foreseeing and somehow preventing them. Hell, people get raped and murdered in this country every day by people who’ve been released from prisons. Where’s your indignation that the prison’s fortune tellers didn’t foresee their crimes and prevent them as well? It’s utter nonsense! > > In short, the Freeh report, despite the fact that it undoubtedly contains some elements of fact, is largely an overwrought, emotionally-driven pile of crap that draws largely upon guesswork and supposition and Monday-morning quarterbacking to arrive at its conclusions and a good many of its findings. Mostly it’s an opinion piece cooked up by the likes of many of the people in this thread, eager to view the slightest piece of evidence in the worst possible light and to see vile motives and intentional skullduggery where absolutely none exists. > > Again, it’s a piece of crap and I’d be surprised if more than a fraction of it will ever be proven in a court of law. So what color is the sky on your planet? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5901 "2012-12-12T15:11:07Z")
> [@](#): > > …The report asserts that these emails demonstrate that in 1998 Paterno knew of the investigation of Sandusky, and followed it closely;[100] and suggest that it was Paterno, “long regarded as the single most powerful official at the university,” who persuaded Spanier, Curley, and Schultz not to formally report Sandusky to law enforcement or child welfare authorities… So, these e-mails never happened? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/5902 "2012-12-12T16:16:28Z")
Hey who knows more about this case? A special investigative team headed by a former head of the FBI or SA? A group that interviewed over 400 people and reviewed 3,500,000 documents or 1 yahoo with a paper towel tube and an Internet connection? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=294) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=296)