# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/601 "2011-11-10T19:12:54Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Sadly, seeing as how the football program made $57.5 million for them last year, that’s about the last thing they’re going to be able to do. I was being a bit hyperbolic. This won’t kill the program outright, probably won’t even kill its profitability. But it is going to be affected. Really think after this plays out, that it will continue to bring in that level of revenue? There will be no Paterno legacy and with the scandal how many of [these corporate sponsors](http://www.gopsusports.com/sponsorship/psu-sponsorship.html) are going to distance themselves? [Forbes article here](http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/11/08/penn-state-sex-scandal-will-cut-20-million-from-football-teams-value/) suggests a $10 million hit next year with further declines should they lose recruits, play poorly, and/or miss bowl eligibility. ---
**Author:** ![Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian_D.Bergkamp)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/602 "2011-11-10T19:15:14Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Where did that come from? It is not part of the grand jury report. From page 8 of the [indictment](http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/11/07/sandusky_grand_jury_presentment.pdf?hpt=hp_t1): > [@](#): > > Curley testified that he also advised Penn State University President Graham Spanier of the information he had received from the graduate assistant and the steps he had taken as a result… Spanier testified to his approval of the approach taken by Curley. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/603 "2011-11-10T19:16:40Z")
Nail on head. [http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/](http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/) [QUOTE=The Onion] At press time, the victims of years and years of psyche-destroying sexual abuse released a joint statement saying they were not concerned about Joe Paterno’s legacy. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/604 "2011-11-10T19:17:49Z")
Heh heh. [http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/](http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/) Damn you, **tnetennba**! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/605 "2011-11-10T19:21:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I did? Well, then I eagerly anticipate the other revelations your mind-reading skills will no doubt enable you to share with us. Doesn’t take mindreading skill. It’s not a coincidence that you edited my words in a way that enabled your response, and in addition, this was also your MO in misrepresenting the GJ report on what McQueary told JP, also in a self-serving way. > [@RaftPeople](#): > > Would you be willing to provide a hypothetical in which you think a person does have a moral responsibility to follow up? Again, I’m looking for a 2nd hand account type of situation, and again, you won’t get any arguing back from me, I already know we don’t agree and I don’t believe the world needs to have my exact set of views. I’m not sure why I’m limited to a second hand account situation. But FWIW, again similar to what I’ve said here, if the guy told you he saw so-and-so murdering someone, and you told building security and saw so-and-so continue to come to the office thereafter, I would think further inquries would be warranted. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/606 "2011-11-10T19:21:41Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Would you think it is sufficient for the witness to tell his boss “Hey, I saw this guy killing a kid in the shower.” and then leave it at that? [boss] You must’ve just seen some horseplay - sometimes the football players get a little rough with each other when they’re messing around. I’m sure that’s all you saw. [/boss] ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/607 "2011-11-10T19:24:39Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Has anyone now seen this? [jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden](http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html) > > How reliable is Madden? I know he alluded to the Sandusky stuff in April - could this possibly be true? He is almost 0% reliable. He’s also a fat bloviating douchebag whose mouthbreathing makes him hard to listen to, if you can even stomach his pompous self aggrandizement. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/608 "2011-11-10T19:25:59Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He is almost 0% reliable. He’s also a fat bloviating douchebag whose mouthbreathing makes him hard to listen to, if you can even stomach his pompous self aggrandizement. Good. I can’t even imagine how bad it would be if this were true… ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/609 "2011-11-10T19:34:20Z")
> [@I'm Not Dennis Bergkamp](#): > > From page 8 of the [indictment](http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/11/07/sandusky_grand_jury_presentment.pdf?hpt=hp_t1): _boggle_ I honestly searched the whole indictment both by ctrl-F and by sight and never saw it. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/610 "2011-11-10T19:48:27Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Has anyone now seen this? [jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden](http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html) > > How reliable is Madden? I know he alluded to the Sandusky stuff in April - could this possibly be true? I don’t know how reliable he is overall, but his story from back in April turns out to be spot-on! I’m getting the feeling that we still only know part of the story, and perhaps the rest of it will reveal why _everyone_ of authority at Penn State had a motive to cover it up. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/611 "2011-11-10T20:01:48Z")
What this boils down to is money. Wealthy donors don’t give megabucks to universities where the head coach covers up child sexual abuse. The Board of Trustees are covering their butts. I’m curious if they knew of the allegations against Sandusky from the late '90s. Why was this guy permitted to keep parading young boys around campus? Why was he allowed to have a young boy in the locker room? Why was HE taking a shower in the locler room? An argument from above I don’t understand: I believe someone said something to the effect of “maybe Pantero didn’t believe McQueary” when he reported what he saw". Ok, maybe he didn’t believe the lowly grad assistant reporting sexual abuse about his long time co-worker (even though said co-worker had already had problems with “borderline” behavior with young boys). Grad assistant is a liar. So you promote a liar/someone with an agenda to an Assistant Coach slot? I find that very hard to believe. And again - discuss all you like the levels of “seriousness” of child sexual abuse - no matter if it’s a quick grope or a full on anal rape it is all illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/612 "2011-11-10T20:05:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > . We really don’t even need trials for these people, do we? Ehm - yes we do. That’s pretty much the entire point - there should have been a trial. But thanks to those who knew and chose not to tell, there wasn’t one. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/613 "2011-11-10T20:09:56Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > An argument from above I don’t understand: I believe someone said something to the effect of “maybe Pantero didn’t believe McQueary” when he reported what he saw". Ok, maybe he didn’t believe the lowly grad assistant reporting sexual abuse about his long time co-worker (even though said co-worker had already had problems with “borderline” behavior with young boys). Grad assistant is a liar. So you promote a liar/someone with an agenda to an Assistant Coach slot? I find that very hard to believe. That was me but I wasn’t arguing about Paterno and McQueary specifically, more as a counter to the posters who said “well of course I’d always report things like that to the authorities no matter what.” Paterno was wrong, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us would be necessarily perfect in a workplace situation. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/614 "2011-11-10T20:12:41Z")
Well, at least South Park and Tosh.0 will get some fresh material to work with. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/615 "2011-11-10T20:15:20Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > You know, truly I don’t, because who can divine Joe Paterno’s thoughts, really? But the [investigation and admonishment](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html) are a matter of public record. So, let’s apply a little common sense here. Do you think that the iconic coach of one of the most storied football teams in college football history wasn’t aware of the disposition of his defensive coordinator regarding a child sexual abuse investigation given the media shitstorm that followed? And if he didn’t, do you really want such a daft, ignorant individual in charge of your football program? Pretty much the same response I was going to give you, **brickbacon** – it’s actually pretty obvious stuff. So I’ll just thank **Mince** for saving me the time. As for Sandusky being fired as supposed to retired, I’ll (once again) let the record speak for itself: > [@Grand Jury Report](#): > > **Findings Of Fact** > > **Shultz testified that Sandusky retired when Paterno felt it was time to make a coaching change and also to take advantage of an enhanced retirement benefit under Sandusky’s state pension** (page 11) > > \ > > **Victim 4 remembers Sandusky being emotionally upset after having a meeting with Joe Paterno in which Paterno told Sandusky that he would not be the next head coach at Penn State and which preceded Sandusky’s retirement. Sandusky told Victim 4 not to tell anyone about the meeting. That meeting occurred in May, 1999** (page 16) – source page number added by me. Conclusions as to whether he was fired or retired left up to the sagacious readers. I’ll just add that Sandusky was named “Assistant Coach of The Year\*” the very year he “retired” and yet Paterno felt a coaching change was needed. :dubious: \*[**Cite**](http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121099aaf.html). * * * Why the Paterno apologist continue to froth ahead without bothering to read the Grand Jury Presntment is, quite frankly, befuddling to me. The only thing I can come up with, is that they, as Paterno & Co – and a nameless US Administration prior to them – wish to “make their own reality.” Didn’t happen then, ain’t happening now. Oh, and BTW, along the same lines, someone up thread mentioned that Spanier wasn’t mentioned in the report. Wrong. He’s named a plenty; including some of the really bizarre denials he made. Again, fucking read the disgusting thing and _then_ try your apologies. * * * **Starvin’** , Good to “see” you again, though I am saddened to know that your deteriorating conditions now precludes you from clicking on a link. Perhaps it is time for you to “retire” as well. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/616 "2011-11-10T20:21:06Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I don’t know how reliable he is overall… A little web research shows Madden has a litany of bad predictions under his belt, as **Hentor** stated. But things still just don’t seem to be adding up. Why did they all protect Sandusky so much and so long? We only know about the couple of times that he got caught that made it into public statements. If he was that careless and open about it, perhaps those weren’t the only times. If he traveled with these kids, slept in the same hotel room, and with dozens of them over that long a period, how could no one not have said anything? Maybe he was just that confident that no one would say anything. Maybe he had info that could get others in trouble, so they had no choice but to protect him and let him reign free? We all know that conspiracy theories are almost always fictitious when they involve numerous people, because there is a high probability that at least one individual will slip up. The only time this wouldn’t apply is when _everyone_ has the incentive to keep quiet. I obviously don’t have the answers, but something just doesn’t seem right. I’m guessing that there is much more to the story, although I’m not sold on Madden’s theory. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/617 "2011-11-10T20:32:13Z")
I forgot to add that as I said in my response to Paterno’s firing this early morning, much more needs to be done to thoroughly clean-up this sordid affair. I am of the mind that not only does McQueary have to go – for obvious reasons – but the whole coaching staff & everyone else in the school that knew and/or participated in this cover-up. Up to and including, Trustees. Sandusky? Makes me almost want to support the DP. But I rather he lives to experience hell on earth. As for the victims, other than wishing them all the best, sue the fuck out of the school. For it appears money is the only concept all these evil fucks understand. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/618 "2011-11-10T20:41:12Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > A little web research shows Madden has a litany of bad predictions under his belt, as **Hentor** stated. The guy routinely refers to himself as Super Genius while betraying a rank ignorance of sports on a daily basis. As for the whys of the matter, I can’t figure why anyone would protect Sandusky. It seems quite reasonable that they wanted to avoid whatever scandal would have hit the program at the time. Sure, there would have been one, but it would look like a tea party compared to this. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/619 "2011-11-10T20:47:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It seems quite reasonable that they wanted to avoid whatever scandal would have hit the program at the time. Sure, there would have been one, but it would look like a tea party compared to this. Yeah, but a minor scandal you (think) you can keep down is better than a bigger scandal later (that you think won’t happen because you can keep it down). I am kinda leaning towards the idea that folks covered up “minor” stuff and once they had dug themselves in a bit too deep they reached a point of no return and they had “no choice” but to move forward hoping things would never come out. Or cover up for a criminal long enough and then you get the “if I go down, you sure as hell are too” deal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/620 "2011-11-10T20:58:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Doesn’t take mindreading skill. It’s not a coincidence that you edited my words in a way that enabled your response, and in addition, this was also your MO in misrepresenting the GJ report on what McQueary told JP, also in a self-serving way. BULLSHIT. I even posted a link to the fucking indictment, showing that Joe said he had been told details. Where’s your citation, you lying shit? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=32)