# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/621 "2011-11-10T21:03:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The guy routinely refers to himself as Super Genius while betraying a rank ignorance of sports on a daily basis. > > As for the whys of the matter, I can’t figure why anyone would protect Sandusky. It seems quite reasonable that they wanted to avoid whatever scandal would have hit the program at the time. Sure, there would have been one, but it would look like a tea party compared to this. It wouldn’t have been as big as this, but it would still have been one of the biggest scandals college football had seen in a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/622 "2011-11-10T21:08:39Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > An argument from above I don’t understand: I believe someone said something to the effect of “maybe Pantero didn’t believe McQueary” when he reported what he saw". Ok, maybe he didn’t believe the lowly grad assistant reporting sexual abuse about his long time co-worker (even though said co-worker had already had problems with “borderline” behavior with young boys). Grad assistant is a liar. So you promote a liar/someone with an agenda to an Assistant Coach slot? I find that very hard to believe. You can not believe someone without necessarily believing they are lying. Regardless, perhaps he promoted the GA because he was a good coach. Why do you think his veracity on that one issue would be the decisive factor anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/623 "2011-11-10T21:11:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > BULLSHIT. I even posted a link to the fucking indictment, showing that Joe said he had been told details. Where’s your citation, you lying shit? You said: > [@](#): > > McQueary testified that he told Paterno what he saw in fairly graphic detail. I’m having a hard time imagining what could be ambiguous about “I saw a little boy getting fucked in the showers.” The GJ report actually said: > [@](#): > > fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy These are very different, and there’s a lot of ambiguity in the latter that is not present in the former. Since your entire point was that there was no ambiguity in what JP was told, your misrepresentation was significant to your case. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/624 "2011-11-10T21:15:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure why I’m limited to a second hand account situation. Only because I was trying to isolate some variables, make the situation similar to penn state but modify the severity of the crime. As you said previously, and I agree, that being a witness alters the equation, so I didn’t want to go there. > [@](#): > > But FWIW, again similar to what I’ve said here, if the guy told you he saw so-and-so murdering someone, and you told building security and saw so-and-so continue to come to the office thereafter, I would think further inquries would be warranted. Ok, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/625 "2011-11-10T21:21:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You said:The GJ report actually said:These are very different, and there’s a lot of ambiguity in the latter that is not present in the former. Since your entire point was that there was no ambiguity in what JP was told, your misrepresentation was significant to your case. I love how the Paterno apologists are pretending that Joe had no ability to actually participate in the conversation. GA: “Coach, I saw Sandusky in the shower with a 10-yr-old, doing something of a sexual nature.” JoePa: “If only there was some way to get more details about what you saw. Oh well, I guess I’ll just pass you off to somebody else. Someone a lot less powerful than me. That should work.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/626 "2011-11-10T21:22:02Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > You can not believe someone without necessarily believing they are lying. Regardless, perhaps he promoted the GA because he was a good coach. Why do you think his veracity on that one issue would be the decisive factor anyway? If you can’t trust your subordinate to correctly identify a child rape when they claim to see it, what can you trust them to do? ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/627 "2011-11-10T21:23:44Z")
In Pennsylvania are you legally required to report abuse? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/628 "2011-11-10T21:27:40Z")
There are going to be civil suits for damages to kids for the next few years. It will cost the university a lot of money. i am sure tuition will go up. But this can not be swept under the rug. It will be fromnt page news for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/629 "2011-11-10T21:39:17Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Only because I was trying to isolate some variables, make the situation similar to penn state but modify the severity of the crime. As you said previously, and I agree, that being a witness alters the equation, so I didn’t want to go there. OK. (You seemed to be presupposing that there was some case in which I agreed that someone with secondhand knowledge had to get involved - I wasn’t sure where this came from.) Still, there’s a tradeoff between severity and credibility. Even in a murder case, if the guy who told you about it is the local drunk, then I would say you don’t necesarily need to press on after reporting it. > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I love how the Paterno apologists are pretending that Joe had no ability to actually participate in the conversation. > > GA: “Coach, I saw Sandusky in the shower with a 10-yr-old, doing something of a sexual nature.” > > JoePa: “If only there was some way to get more details about what you saw. Oh well, I guess I’ll just pass you off to somebody else. Someone a lot less powerful than me. That should work.” I’m not sure what your point is here - that JP needed to get precise details so that in case those whose job it was to deal with it decided to cover it up instead that he’d know that they’d done this? He set up McQueary to discuss it with those in charge, and they could find out the details as well as he could. But beyond this, I’ve suggested earlier that McQueary may not have been sure of what he saw at the time he saw it, and his determination that it was anal sex was an interpretation. And on that note, I see now that there’s actually a suggestion of this in the GJ report (page 7) > [@](#): > > The graduate assistant reported to Curley and Schultz that he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers Sounds like he wasn’t completely sure even then (unless the “believed to be” refers to uncertainty over whether it was Sandusky or not). [Also, I was wondering about the “rhythmic, slapping sounds” that he believed to be from sexual activity. I’m not sure what rhythmic slapping sounds are associated with sexual activity, and in any event, I find it odd that someone who hears rhythmic slapping sounds coming from a shower would assume it was from sexual activity. So I think it’s likely that McQueary’s understanding of what he saw evolved over time, which may have colored his recollections as well.] ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/630 "2011-11-10T21:41:38Z")
It was his job to deal with it. That’s what my fucking point is. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/631 "2011-11-10T21:43:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [Also, I was wondering about the “rhythmic, slapping sounds” that he believed to be from sexual activity. **I’m not sure what rhythmic slapping sounds are associated with sexual activity** , and in any event, I find it odd that someone who hears rhythmic slapping sounds coming from a shower would assume it was from sexual activity. So I think it’s likely that McQueary’s understanding of what he saw evolved over time, which may have colored his recollections as well.] Seriously? You’re not sure what rhythmic slapping sounds are associated with sexual activity? Are you a 15-year-old virgin? The slapping sound of the front of someone’s thighs rhythmically hitting someone else’s ass cheeks. You’re either very naive, very inexperienced, or very disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/632 "2011-11-10T21:43:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > It was his job to deal with it. That’s what my fucking point is. No, it was not his job. So your point is wrong. The only question here was whether JP should have reported it to the police directly or suffice with reporting it to his superiors. Either way, his job was just to report it to someone, and he didn’t have to know the precise details. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/633 "2011-11-10T21:46:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Seriously? You’re not sure what rhythmic slapping sounds are associated with sexual activity? Are you a 15-year-old virgin? The slapping sound of the front of someone’s thighs rhythmically hitting someone else’s ass cheeks. > > You’re either very naive, very inexperienced, or very disingenuous. I am not familiar with this concept. But if you are, and you say it’s so, I could be wrong. Strike that paragraph, then. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/634 "2011-11-10T21:48:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No, it was not his job. So your point is wrong. > > The only question here was whether JP should have reported it to the police directly or suffice with reporting it to his superiors. Either way, his job was just to report it to someone, and he didn’t have to know the precise details. No, you’re wrong. It was his job. Would you like for me to provide you a cite? Perhaps you haven’t heard that the only people whose opinions matter, the BoT, agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/635 "2011-11-10T21:48:55Z")
And Dougy Howser is down one! Phipps that is. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/636 "2011-11-10T21:53:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No, it was not his job. It’s not his job to know exactly what is going on in the facilities he oversees and the people he allows to use them? Really? No point in continuing this conversation if that is your belief. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/637 "2011-11-10T21:54:48Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Would you like for me to provide you a cite? Yes. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you haven’t heard that the only people whose opinions matter, the BoT, agree with me. The BoT is engaged in PR damage control. But out of curiousity, suppose the BoT did not agree with you. Would you change your position? Being that they are the “only people whose opinions matter”. > [@billfish678](#): > > And Dougy Howser is down one! > > Phipps that is. I suppose I’m a bit out of my league when it comes to anal sex. You got to know when to hold em … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/638 "2011-11-10T22:01:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …[Also, I was wondering about the “rhythmic, slapping sounds” that he believed to be from sexual activity. I’m not sure what rhythmic slapping sounds are associated with sexual activity, and in any event, I find it odd that someone who hears rhythmic slapping sounds coming from a shower would assume it was from sexual activity…] You’re a virgin, right? Besides being an utter tool of course. > [@Grand Jury report](#): > > As the graduate student entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed those to be sounds of sexual activity. … he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked (former Penn State defensive coach Jerry) Sandusky. NB: He _hears_ the sound first, he _believes them to be of sexual nature_…and then, he _confirms his suspicion as he **SEES** Sandusky buttfucking a little boy_. Hope that helps. But I doubt it. Lobotomy victims are hard to reach through reason and logic. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/639 "2011-11-10T22:03:00Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > In Pennsylvania are you legally required to report abuse? People who hold certain jobs are - whether Paterno in particular is a mandated reporter or not, I couldn’t tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/640 "2011-11-10T22:03:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Yes. Okay. Open any major news site. On the front page, you will find a link to an article that contains news of Joe Pa’s firing. > [@](#): > > The BoT is engaged in PR damage control. No shit. That’s what happens when one of their employees totally fails to do his job. > [@](#): > > But out of curiousity, suppose the BoT did not agree with you. Would you change your position? Being that they are the “only people whose opinions matter”. They are the only people who matter when it comes to their employees job expectations. Joe Pa was morally wrong either way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=33)