# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 322
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6423 "2014-03-09T15:59:38Z")
I assume when/if Paterno’s/Sandusky’s kids/grand kids get in trouble we could just tack them onto this thread. Efficiency. The thread could also serve a nostalgia purpose in the future if toilet paper cardboard rolls ever become antiquated. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6424 "2014-03-09T16:24:43Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The thread could also serve a nostalgia purpose in the future if toilet paper cardboard rolls ever become antiquated. Paper towel tubes. Discrepancies like that will cause some to doubt the whole thing ever took place. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6425 "2014-03-09T19:56:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Who \*will \*get the last post here? If the mods haven’t yet seen fit to put this thread out of its misery, they never will. The mods always get the last post. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6426 "2014-03-10T13:23:31Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Really, there just isn’t any substance here. This long after the fact, any “new revelations” are highly questionable. Past events are always colored by the passage of time. Peoples’ memories are plastic and subject to a host of influences. We simply aren’t going to learn anything now that will change the reality. OTOH, at the time of the original GJ testimony it was already long after the events in question, so they were already colored by the passage of time. And yet, people insisted on treating McQueary’s recollections as sancrosact. Despite all the publicity and commentary, there may be yet revelations yet to come. The focus of the GJ testimony and Sandusky trial was Sandusky, and there was a lot of other evidence against Sandusky beyond the McQueary incident. And some of the key players were facing indictment. If the Schultz and Curley indictments go to trial, there might be more to come. Not anything earthshattering, but which could color the assessments. But I agree that nothing will influence people whose minds are made up about these issues. Feel free to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6427 "2014-03-10T13:43:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OTOH, at the time of the original GJ testimony it was already long after the events in question, so they were already colored by the passage of time. And yet, people insisted on treating McQueary’s recollections as sancrosact. To repeat an earlier post: > [@CannyDan](#): > > McQueary reported observing something that a number of “mandated reporters” declared to be more than sufficient for making such a report. Only if Paterno had judged McQueary to be totally non-credible, a raving loon, a person known to be given to flights of fancy, would his testimony directly to Paterno been insufficient to obligate Paterno to report. Even Paterno’s own recounting of what he heard from McQueary was more than sufficient to obligate him, so we need not judge McQueary’s later statements ourselves for their own credibility. Whether or not McQueary was considered credible by the GJ, he was considered credible by the PTB at Penn State _at the time he reported the incident_. I’m not convinced McQueary is the thread that is going to unravel this entire case. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6428 "2014-03-10T13:56:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OTOH, at the time of the original GJ testimony it was already long after the events in question, so they were already colored by the passage of time. And yet, people insisted on treating McQueary’s recollections as sancrosact. Nobody in this thread treated his recollections as anything more than they were – allegations. Allegations that were subsequently investigated and still later became trial testimony. To be evaluated by a “finder of fact”. Hardly sacrosanct. But also hardly the point of the thread. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Despite all the publicity and commentary, there may be yet revelations yet to come. The focus of the GJ testimony and Sandusky trial was Sandusky, and there was a lot of other evidence against Sandusky beyond the McQueary incident. And some of the key players were facing indictment. If the Schultz and Curley indictments go to trial, there might be more to come. Not anything earthshattering, but which could color the assessments. Need I remind you yet again of the OP of this thread? It isn’t to settle the complex matter of the various layers of involvement and complicity. It is to condemn JoPa. And in that regard, pursuasive evidence has been presented that JoPa fucked up. He didn’t pay enough attention, nor take sufficient action, upon being presented with an accusation that was not completely lacking in credibility. See my summary statement upthread. Should any additional revelations be forthcoming, earthshaking or not, I’m certain we can depend upon you to bring them to our attention. \ > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But I agree that nothing will influence people whose minds are made up about these issues. Feel free to ignore. Oh now, that’s rich. Coming from you, and in light of your very first post in this thread (#249), that’s really rich. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6429 "2014-03-10T14:13:08Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Need I remind you yet again of the OP of this thread? It isn’t to settle the complex matter of the various layers of involvement and complicity. It is to condemn JoPa. And in that regard, pursuasive evidence has been presented that JoPa fucked up. Well I think he was culpable too, but there are different levels of culpability, and there’s a huge difference between failing to manage a potential child abuse situation correctly on the one hand and knowingly covering up for child rapers on the other. That’s what’s left. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6430 "2014-03-10T15:21:47Z")
OK then, I’m pleased to welcome you into the land of the enlightened. JoPa failed to manage a potential child abuse situation correctly. This resulted in a sexual predator being able to continue his depradations longer than if JoPa had managed the situation correctly. He is properly condemned for this on a moral, if not a legal, level because he chose his course of action. He was apparently motivated by a desire to protect his, and his program’s, reputations. That is the kindest light in which I can see it. I do not recall anyone in this thread, certainly not _moi_, suggesting that he knowingly covered up for a known child raper. He did though obfuscate and minimize (maybe in his own mind as well) a highly suspicious report made directly to him. There’s been plenty of straw in this thread, we don’t need any more from you now. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6431 "2014-03-10T15:23:52Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I do not recall anyone in this thread, certainly not _moi_, suggesting that he knowingly covered up for a known child raper. It’s not about you. Quite a lot of people in this thread have said just this. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6432 "2014-03-11T01:03:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s not about you. > > Quite a lot of people in this thread have said just this. Oh bog, I just know I’m going to hate myself in the morning, but – cite? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6433 "2014-03-11T01:15:13Z")
Somewhere, right now, Starving Artist is grudge-fucking a Mentos tube. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6434 "2014-03-11T01:51:33Z")
Lobohan, you owe me for the brain bleach and the therapy. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6435 "2014-03-11T03:29:18Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I do not recall anyone in this thread, certainly not _moi_, suggesting that he knowingly covered up for a known child raper. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Quite a lot of people in this thread have said just this. > [@CannyDan](#): > > Oh bog, I just know I’m going to hate myself in the morning, but – cite? How about this: Motivated by a desire to protect his, and his program’s, reputations, and acting through obfuscation and minimization of a highly suspicious report made directly to him, Joe Paterno knowingly covered up for a known child rapist. It was a long-held and locally-glorious reputation, but through his sin of omission he squandered it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6436 "2014-03-11T06:51:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Somewhere, right now, Starving Artist is grudge-fucking a Mentos tube. Mentos: the Pedophile maker? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6437 "2014-03-11T18:45:34Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > How about this: Motivated by a desire to protect his, and his program’s, reputations, and acting through obfuscation and minimization of a highly suspicious report made directly to him, Joe Paterno knowingly covered up for a known child rapist. It was a long-held and locally-glorious reputation, but through his sin of omission he squandered it. Huh?!!?!?!!?! (I knew it. I _do_ hate myself!) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6438 "2014-03-11T19:51:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Somewhere, right now, Starving Artist is grudge-fucking a Mentos tube. What grudge? I totally owned the thread! Yet even now people are still making claims in direct contradiction to the evidence, and sometimes ya just gotta let idjits be idjits. Thus my absence. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6439 "2014-03-11T20:32:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What grudge? I totally owned the thread! Only in your own mind, dude… Oh, and in your paper towel tube. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6440 "2014-03-11T20:37:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What grudge? I totally owned the thread! > > Yet even now people are still making claims in direct contradiction to the evidence, and sometimes ya just gotta let idjits be idjits. Thus my absence. I understand the urge to save face, but the utter cowardice and desperation of that post is really something. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6441 "2014-03-11T21:00:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What grudge? I totally owned the thread! > > Yet even now people are still making claims in direct contradiction to the evidence, and sometimes ya just gotta let idjits be idjits. Thus my absence. Sometimes you just gotta let people who claim it’s _physically impossible_ for a standing man to penetrate someone more than a foot shorter from behind, continue to claim that it’s _physically impossible_ for a standing man to penetrate someone more than a foot shorter from behind, even though it’s one of the most ridiculous and most easily debunkable (via internet porn) claims on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/6442 "2014-03-11T22:33:57Z")
Ah, what the hell, I have a few quick minutes to spare. > [@Chesire Human](#): > > Only in your own mind, dude… Oh, and in your paper towel tube. Nope, you’re still getting it wrong. The tubes are for you guys. I already knew what they were intended to prove. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I understand the urge to save face, but the utter cowardice and desperation of that post is really something. Yes, because if any one word describes my behavior in this thread it’s cowardice. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sometimes you just gotta let people who claim it’s physically impossible for a standing man to penetrate someone more than a foot shorter from behind, continue to claim that it’s physically impossible for a standing man to penetrate someone more than a foot shorter from behind… Remember how I said that when someone has to lie about what I said in order to rebut my argument it means they’re bereft of substantial argument against what I actually did say, and therefore their lies show that I’m winning the argument? Well…dare I say it…? Ah, what the hell…_WINNING!!!_ And now I’m out. My cowardly ass got chit to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=321) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=323)