# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/761 "2011-11-11T16:49:37Z")
I heard on the radio yesterday an interesting theory as to why McQueary is still coaching. The guy said that since McQueary is a material witness in the criminal case and an important prosecution that PSU has been pressured not to do anything to potentially put that at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Sinsaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sinsaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinsaint)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/762 "2011-11-11T16:51:46Z")
Okay, if PSU weren’t engaging in some type of cover up (or praying that it would just quietly go away) these are things I don’t get: Sandusky stepped down from the daily running of The Second Mile in September 2010 to “focus on his family and personal matter.” By that time the investigation was in full swing and the higher ups at PSU had to have heard of the investigation and/or were spoken to about it. McQueary testified in December 2010. Schultz and Curley testified on January 12, 2011. Both denied being told by McQueary that his accusation was about anal sex. So, by January 2011, if they didn’t already know it, they knew then that the accusation was about anal sex with a minor child. Graham Spanier testified sometime in April at which point he would have known the accusation was about anal sex with a minor. Even if I give all these people the benefit of the doubt about not knowing the specifics of the act in 2002, they knew by the beginning of 2011 but they still allowed Sandusky on the campus. They could have easily banned him until at least the investigation was over. The only reason I can come up with for not banning him once they knew what the accusations were is because people might start asking questions about why he was banned. By April 2011 Joepa, Spanier, Curley and Schultz all knew exactly what the accusations were (because they were all specifically asked if they knew the accusation involved anal sex with a minor). Why was the Board of Trustees not notified right then? If they were, why did they finally just decide this week to start their own internal investigation? At the very least their investigation should have started in April. The whole situation screams cover up. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/763 "2011-11-11T16:58:04Z")
I am astounded by the defenders of this asshole. To me, college football is annoying white noise that preempts something I find worth watching on TV. I have never heard of Joe Paterno before this week. I passed through State College several times when I was a roadie but I didn’t really remember that Penn State was the associated college and I didn’t know that they had a renowned sports program until… this week. This is a side effect of elevating a sports program–or anything-- into a religion and elevating the humans that make it possible to Gods. I don’t think you folks that are defending this guy realize how ridiculous you sound and I think if you were to encounter your words out of context with “Joe Blow whom I don’t know” replacing Joe Paterno you would be disgusted by your own written thoughts. It seems like a lot of people feel that the God that is Penn State Football must be preserved any any costs and if a whole generation of 10 year old boys whose parents are too poor to send their kids to Penn State or give Penn State money must be victimized by a serial buttfucker of children in order to protect the program and keep the money flowing in, so be it. Our Gods must be protected at all costs and what is the physical and emotional heatlh of children worth compared to FOOTBALL…not much. It’s just another wothwhile sacrifice to your God. It’s really just the logical conclusion to the continual moral slippage that comes from deitizing college athletics and it really isn’t a coincidence that the most obvious parallel case happened within the Catholic Church. I hope the whole athletic program there crashes and burns,maybe then I’d find something on TV on Sunday afternoons. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/764 "2011-11-11T17:05:44Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I am astounded by the defenders of this asshole. > > To me, college football is annoying white noise that preempts something I find worth watching on TV. I have never heard of Joe Paterno before this week. I passed through State College several times when I was a roadie but I didn’t really remember that Penn State was the associated college and I didn’t know that they had a renowned sports program until… this week. > > This is a side effect of elevating a sports program–or anything-- into a religion and elevating the humans that make it possible to Gods. I don’t think you folks that are defending this guy realize how ridiculous you sound and I think if you were to encounter your words out of context with “Joe Blow whom I don’t know” replacing Joe Paterno you would be disgusted by your own written thoughts. > > It seems like a lot of people feel that the God that is Penn State Football must be preserved any any costs and if a whole generation of 10 year old boys whose parents are too poor to send their kids to Penn State or give Penn State money must be victimized by a serial buttfucker of children in order to protect the program and keep the money flowing in, so be it. Our Gods must be protected at all costs and what is the physical and emotional heatlh of children worth compared to FOOTBALL…not much. It’s just another wothwhile sacrifice to your God. > > It’s really just the logical conclusion to the continual moral slippage that comes from deitizing college athletics and it really isn’t a coincidence that the most obvious parallel case happened within the Catholic Church. > > I hope the whole athletic program there crashes and burns,maybe then I’d find something on TV on Sunday afternoons. You don’t like sports. Check. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/765 "2011-11-11T17:11:59Z")
> [@Sinsaint](#): > > Even if I give all these people the benefit of the doubt about not knowing the specifics of the act in 2002, they knew by the beginning of 2011 but they still allowed Sandusky on the campus. They could have easily banned him until at least the investigation was over. The only reason I can come up with for not banning him once they knew what the accusations were is because people might start asking questions about why he was banned. I don’t think that’s reasonable. Sandusky was not going to answer these questions, and neither would they. I doubt if too many people would get seriously worked up about investigating why some long-retired guy stopped coming to the campus. I also don’t see the whole significance of the PSU campus thing. Sandusky wasn’t any more dangerous on the PSU campus than he was elsewhere. Why is it such a big deal if he was banned then or if they waited until he was indicted? > [@](#): > > The whole situation screams cover up. So you’re saying they were engaged in an effort to cover it up from the public while they knew there was a GJ investigation going on? Surely they would have realized by then that it was futile. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/766 "2011-11-11T17:17:15Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > Sorry if I’m missing something obvious, but if no one reported to the police what Mike McQueary witnessed, why did the grand jury summon him? The '08 investigation began with Sandusky…then led to all the summons. Here’s a timeline that should help you connect the dots: [Timeline of events in Penn State scandal](http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-penn-state-scandal-timeline-20111110,0,5729324.story) ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/767 "2011-11-11T17:20:12Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > You didn’t miss it, and I think everyone who’s criticizing Paterno falls into the camp of people revolted, horrified at the thought of what this was like for the victims. Hence the ire at Paterno, McQueary, etc. > > It’s pretty much implicit in every anti-JP post. The reason it’s not explicit is (a) it hardly needs saying that it’s awful to think of what those kids went through; and (b) expressing empathy for them is almost . . . almost in the gratuitous/RO realm. I mean, what can we do but hope and pray that they made/will make it through okay, and (small consolation, but . . .) cross our fingers for them to get huge settlements as some small compensation. > \ > No one doesn’t think about those kids and cringe, take my word for it. Well, _almost_ no one. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Any cites on the anal rape of the 10-year-old? What I’ve read in the news was that Sandusky had the kid pinned against a wall and was performing oral sex on him. Both are bad of course, but I would think that a grown man’s penis being forced up the anus of a ten year old child would result in screams of pain that could be heard all over campus. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m thinking McQueary didn’t really see what everybody here thinks he saw, and wasn’t all that sure about it himself at the time. Does it really sound plausible that a grown man raping a ten year old kid in the anus isn’t going to result in painful cries and shrieks that the kid would be incapable of holding back even if he tried, not to mention near hysterical tears and sobs afterward and an inablilty to walk or sit normally, both of which conditions you would think would draw the interest of his teachers and parents? And that the child would not be so grossed out, hurt and horrified that he wouldn’t tell someone what had happened to him? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You make a good point. If Sandusky had groomed the kid to the point where anal sex was an ongoing occurrance, then yes, it could have happened without excruciating pain like you suggest. As for the slapping souunds, who knows? Sandusky may have been actually raping the kid or merely going through the motions in a faux-playful way and trying to pass it off to the kid as teasing or rough housing. And you would think that if Sandusky had on on-going sexual relationship with the boy he wouldn’t have had to risk being seen by having sex with him in a school shower. > > Again, I don’t know what actually happened. But I do think too many people in this thread have forgotten the fact that they don’t really know either. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s becoming easier and easier for me to see how witch hunts, mob justice and lynchings have occurred in this country’s past. Calm down and let the facts play out in court. Hysteria may be friend but our system of justice requires facts and deliberation. You and a few of the other posters to this thread might want to take a lesson from that. > \ > Why would the kid not be crying out? I seriously doubt Paterno considered the possiblity that the abuse had already been going on for some time. And why would Sandusky be raping a kid in the shower where he could be caught in the the first place? Etc., etc., etc. From his perspective as a major university football coach in 1999, mired in a macho, hetero atmosphere and where there would be so much for Sandusky to lose, there is just too much about this allegation that just doesn’t add up. Under those circumstances I would think that what a reasonable and responsible person would do is turn the matter over to people who are charged with investigating allegations of criminal behavior and let them decide how to proceed. And that’s just what Paterno did, didn’t he? > > I don’t believe I’ve said anything to indicate that what McQueary saw didn’t constitute some form of child abuse, or at least attempted child abuse. What I said was that it might not have been penetrative anal sex. This is not a distinction without a difference. Plus, frankly, it’s not outside the realm of possiblity that Paterno might have thought that McQueary had it in for Sandusky and was indeed lying for some reason. I’m sure that coaches and assistants get crosswise with each other all the time, and Paterno would have had to give that possibilty at least some consideration. > > So, in the end what Paterno did was what anyone in his position and with no more firsthand knowledge than he had should have done, and that is report it to his superiors to be investigated. There is no way at this stage of the game that I’m willing to regard Paterno as a villain in this situation. It may turn out that he is, but for now I’d say the way he has always lived his life suggests that any villainy on his part be proven rather than presumed. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/768 "2011-11-11T17:21:23Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I hope the whole athletic program there crashes and burns,maybe then I’d find something on TV on Sunday afternoons. College football is played on Saturdays and I doubt ESPN would, as an alternative, be showing anything else that you’d like better. Your comments were otherwise fine. FWIW, though, I do not think the posters here who complain of a witch hunt or unfair outrage against JP are actually Penn State boosters or fanatics. I’m not sure what their agenda is, but I don’t think it’s that, and in fairness, none of them have voiced the sort of “this is an outrage, JoePa roolzzz!” stuff we saw from the student body (and most recently from this cretinous moron – [Ashton Kutcher's Paterno tweet sends actor running for PR cover](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2011/11/ashton-kutcher-paterno-tweet-aplusk-ashton-kutcher.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/769 "2011-11-11T17:24:58Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > Well, _almost_ no one. Yeah, I suggested upthread that it **almost** sounded as if there were some weird agenda there for wanting to create some category of “not all that bad lesser sexual contact with a child.” He said he wasn’t self-justifying any skeletons in his own closet, and (for purposes of this post, because how can you know on the interwebz?), I’ll take him at his word. Does leave me scratching my head as to the persistence of the “oh, it might not have been that bad, or at least JP could reasonably have thought so” defense. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/770 "2011-11-11T17:43:47Z")
I don’t want all college football stopped, even though I personally don’t watch it or care about it. It’s easy to avoid it on TV. That’s not to say that you don’t make some excellent points, Ann Hedonia, because I think you do. It is very disheartening to learn about so many people not doing the right thing in this whole horrible situation. Terribly sad. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/771 "2011-11-11T17:46:50Z")
Here’s a tidbit for the conspiracy theorists amongst us: the DA who decided not to pursue charges back in 1998 went missing in 2005. They found his car and laptop, but not him. [Ray Gricar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar) ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/772 "2011-11-11T17:50:40Z")
In breaking news the Texas AG is investigating what happened at the 1998 Alamo bowl in San Antonio. Allegedly, Sandusky took a kid with him and had him stay with him in his hotel room. When the kid resisted his advances, Sandusky threatened to send him home. Also, Paterno has hired a top level criminal lawyer. This thing isn’t going away soon. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/773 "2011-11-11T17:53:47Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Does leave me scratching my head as to the persistence of the “oh, it might not have been that bad, or at least JP could reasonably have thought so” defense. Yeah, anyone who responds to any story of child sexual abuse with, _“Well, but mayyyyybe…”_ is going to get my contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/774 "2011-11-11T17:54:26Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You don’t like sports. Check. I love sports, and I don’t disagree with anything she said (aside from college football on a Sunday - that’s just crazy talk). ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/775 "2011-11-11T18:00:39Z")
Any Pitt graduates out there smirking or chuckling? Any? Any St Olaf graduates wishing it had been Gustavus Adolphus? No? OK – back to the pitting. So, are they going to have to change the name of Beaver Stadium? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/776 "2011-11-11T18:04:50Z")
Interesting case [here.](http://www.theindianalawyer.com/lawsuit-filed-against-former-coach-swim-organizations/PARAMS/article/27527) Swim coach molests kids and the parents subsequently sue everyone involved for knowing about prior abuse and doing nothing. Is there any legal precedent for criminal charges in these types of cases? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/777 "2011-11-11T18:06:18Z")
I think it’s interesting that the statement Paterno was going to make about exactly what McQueary told him keep getting delayed. I assume his lawyer told him to shut the fuck up because - even if this is really how Paterno remembers it nine years later - nobody is going to believe McQueary described the rape of a child as “horseplay” and it’s suspiciously close to the “horsing around” euphemism that got Curley and Schultz indicted for perjury. I can believe he used a euphemism that might’ve been misinterpreted, but then again, it’s not like they were communicating by Morse code right before a blackout. And we know McQueary told other officials exactly what he saw. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/778 "2011-11-11T18:14:31Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > In breaking news the Texas AG is investigating what happened at the 1998 Alamo bowl in San Antonio. Allegedly, Sandusky took a kid with him and had him stay with him in his hotel room. When the kid resisted his advances, Sandusky threatened to send him home. Have you ever read the indictment? This incident is mentioned in the discussion of Victim 4. > [@Marley23](#): > > Ieven if this is really how Paterno remembers it nine years later - nobody is going to believe McQueary described the rape of a child as “horseplay” and it’s suspiciously close to the “horsing around” euphemism that got Curley and Schultz indicted for perjury. But the GJ indicted Curley & Schultz for perjury - for contradicting McQueary, apparently on this exact point - and not Paterno. So McQueary must have not contradicted Paterno about this. In general, defendants’ lawyers don’t like their clients talking to the media, ever. > [@](#): > > I can believe he used a euphemism that might’ve been misinterpreted, but then again, it’s not like they were communicating by Morse code right before a blackout. And we know McQueary told other officials exactly what he saw. OTOH, McQueary spoke to Paterno the next day, and to the other two only a week and a half later. McQueary could have changed his mind about what he intended to reveal or become more sure of what he had seen, in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/779 "2011-11-11T18:15:35Z")
I can not stay out of this thread… Does anyone think it is really possible that the disappearance of Gricar could be tied to this? I keep telling myself, it can’t be. But I can’t convince myself. This just grows more horrible by the minute. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/780 "2011-11-11T18:17:13Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > PSU won’t go bankrupt but the Pennsylvania taxpayers will pick up the cost. Just wanted to point out that Penn State is NOT, despite it’s name, a state school. It is a [private institution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_System_of_Higher_Education) (though it was state owned at one time) which does get a [large amount of money](http://deadspin.com/5857531/how-penn-state-sucks-up-taxpayer-money-and-hides-its-ugly-behavior-from-taxpayers)from the state of Pennsylvania as do 3 other “State Related” schools. They are on their own and any attempt to squeeze more money from the state will be suspect at this point. In fact it may be the case that this will be an opportunity to quit giving them money all together or at least significantly cut funds. I don’t think Pennsylvania taxpayers will be keen to contribute to any pay-outs. This one isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=40)