# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian_D.Bergkamp)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/821 "2011-11-11T21:43:13Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Do you have a comprehension problem? The point is if the indictiment doesn’t allege Paterno was told about anal sex, then we cannot assume he was. The indictment does not say that, hence assertions to the contrary are speculative at this point. I do have a problem comprehending your positions in this thread, yeah. You’re the one making affirmative statements about what Paterno was or was not told with regard to “anal sex,” not me. And you’re wrong. Flatly, demonstrably, and completely wrong. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Yes, you are assuming he did. If he was told that, then it would have been recorded. For our purposes, anything not specifically alleged did not happen. New facts may change out understanding of the situation, but if it’s not explicitly noted as it is in the latter interview he did with the higher ups, then it didn’t happen that way. Your position, that the indictment doesn’t specifically exclude your speculative interpretation, is laughable. That standard would be a ridiculous burden. The indictment also doesn’t say the GA didn’t try to extort a job out of Paterno. It also doesn’t say a lot of other things. What we need to focus on is what it does say, and it DOES NOT SAW PATERNO WAS TOLD OF ANAL RAPE. Are you confusing me with someone else? Otherwise, please provide a cite to where I said Paterno was specifically told about anal rape. (Here’s a hint, though: I never did.) I simply responded to your statement that “the record states Paterno was not told about anal rape.” The record, unequivocally, does _ **not** _ state that. It is silent on the exact words used in the discussion between McQueary and Paterno. And between the two of us, you’re the only one assuming anything about the content of that conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/822 "2011-11-11T22:09:03Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > If he was told that, then it would have been recorded. By whom, the Angel G.D. Gabriel? Absence of proof is not proof of absence, yet this dolt keeps insisting it is. **Dennis** , thanks for taking up the reins, but maybe let’s both give ourselves a rest, not least because I can’t stop thinking about why anyone would have such a motivation to be so hysterically adamant about drawing distinctions without a difference between various forms of sexual activity inflicted on a child (hint: the motivations I’m worrying about are not Paterno or Penn State fandom). ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/823 "2011-11-11T22:18:10Z")
Sometimes, the simplest [explanation](http://adultingblog.com/post/12590049239)is the right one. ---
**Author:** ![Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian_D.Bergkamp)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/824 "2011-11-11T22:19:50Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > By whom, the Angel G.D. Gabriel? > > Absence of proof is not proof of absence, yet this dolt keeps insisting it is. **Dennis** , thanks for taking up the reins, but maybe let’s both give ourselves a rest, not least because I can’t stop thinking about why anyone would have such a motivation to be so hysterically adamant about drawing distinctions without a difference between various forms of sexual activity inflicted on a child (hint: the motivations I’m worrying about are not Paterno or Penn State fandom). Yeah, I don’t know anything else about him than what I’ve seen in this thread, but it’s clear that his positions here aren’t rooted in logic. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/825 "2011-11-11T22:22:44Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Do you have a comprehension problem? The point is if the indictiment doesn’t allege Paterno was told about anal sex, then we cannot assume he was. The indictment does not say that, hence assertions to the contrary are speculative at this point. > > Yes, you are assuming he did. If he was told that, then it would have been recorded. For our purposes, anything not specifically alleged did not happen. New facts may change out understanding of the situation, but if it’s not explicitly noted as it is in the latter interview he did with the higher ups, then it didn’t happen that way. Your position, that the indictment doesn’t specifically exclude your speculative interpretation, is laughable. That standard would be a ridiculous burden. The indictment also doesn’t say the GA didn’t try to extort a job out of Paterno. It also doesn’t say a lot of other things. What we need to focus on is what it does say, and it DOES NOT SAY PATERNO WAS TOLD OF ANAL RAPE. Are you aware that the document you are basing your ridiculous argument on is the indictment, not a transcript of the testimony? And that the statement you seem to be basing so much on is a description of what Paterno says he told Curley? There is nothing in the indictment that describes what Paterno says what McQueary told him. You can bet it is in the testimony. What is in the indictment is that McQueary testified that McQueary told Paterno “what he had seen”. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/826 "2011-11-11T22:48:18Z")
Been reading along about this god awful crime and these despicable individuals Paterno, Curley, Schultz and McQueary. Just have one question. Who the heck is this Sandusky guy? I keed, I keed. No really, is he not the true criminal here. I’d love to see some of this energy and ire shift focus to finding ways to identify others like him BEFORE they leave a trail of destruction a mile wide. Time and time again we know this sort of person slips by for all manner of reasons. More needs to be done. Much, much more that goes way beyond Penn State and who did or did not report what or what not. > [@I'm Not Dennis Bergkamp](#): > > Yeah, I don’t know anything else about him than what I’ve seen in this thread, but it’s clear that his positions here aren’t rooted in logic. I think this thread has been pretty much fueled by emotion from the get go. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/827 "2011-11-11T22:55:55Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I think this thread has been pretty much fueled by emotion from the get go. Sure, I get that, and perhaps it’s inevitable. I’m just trying to figure out **what kind of** emotion drives a passionate drive to defend the enablers in this case. And I’m not having much success. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/828 "2011-11-11T22:58:30Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Been reading along about this god awful crime and these despicable individuals Paterno, Curley, Schultz and McQueary. Just have one question. Who the heck is this Sandusky guy? > > I keed, I keed. No really, is he not the true criminal here. I’d love to see some of this energy and ire shift focus to finding ways to identify others like him BEFORE they leave a trail of destruction a mile wide. Time and time again we know this sort of person slips by for all manner of reasons. More needs to be done. Much, much more that goes way beyond Penn State and who did or did not report what or what not. > I think this thread has been pretty much fueled by emotion from the get go. _Time and time again we know this sort of person slips by for all manner of reasons. More needs to be done. Much, much more that goes way beyond Penn State and who did or did not report what or what not._ And that is the problem. People get away with it because others don’t do something about it. They don’t intervene or they don’t call the cops to report it, orthey cover it up. Disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/829 "2011-11-11T23:02:08Z")
Slight hijack from Paterno to Sandusky’s wife - WTF? He had kids sleeping over in a basement bedroom of his house? What did he do, do molest kids and come climb back in bed with her? In addition to the anger and sadness, that just fills me with ewwwwwww. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/830 "2011-11-11T23:04:07Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I’d love to see some of this energy and ire shift focus to finding ways to identify others like him BEFORE they leave a trail of destruction a mile wide. Here’s a simple thing we can all do to help: _If you hear that children are getting raped in your place of work, follow up to make sure something is done to stop it._ ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/831 "2011-11-11T23:04:10Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > Slight hijack from Paterno to Sandusky’s wife - WTF? He had kids sleeping over in a basement bedroom of his house? What did he do, do molest kids and come climb back in bed with her? > > In addition to the anger and sadness, that just fills me with ewwwwwww. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14453213&postcount=792](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14453213&postcount=792) ---
**Author:** ![diggerwam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@diggerwam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggerwam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/832 "2011-11-11T23:06:31Z")
So what do you think is the over/under is on suicides or suspicious deaths while in custody among these people who knew? I’m guessing at least 3. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/833 "2011-11-11T23:31:03Z")
> **[Penn State Sex-Abuse Case Revives Issue of Using Chemical Castration](https://www.thedailybeast.com/penn-state-sex-abuse-case-revives-issue-of-using-chemical-castration)** > > Chemical castration could be an option in situations like the Penn State sex-abuse scandal. By Michelle Cottle. I’m a little confused. There seems to be a superfluous word in that headline. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/834 "2011-11-11T23:39:14Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Here’s a simple thing we can all do to help: > > _If you hear that children are getting raped in your place of work, follow up to make sure something is done to stop it._ And try not to get bogged down by details of whether it is actual anal rape or “only” sexual activity. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/835 "2011-11-12T00:08:30Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > How do you know they were not advised by either investigators or lawyers not to do that? It would not be uncommon for prosecutors to ask material witnesses and those involved in the case to not tip off the suspect. **Especially since his contact with children had been severely curtailed by this point.** Let’s say Penn State decided to ban him from campus. What pretense do they give him that would not lead him to believe he was gonna be arrested soon? – bolding mine. Oh really? ‘Severely curtailed’? At this point I think I am just going to come right out and say it: you’re either trolling us and/or are a total imbecile. Once again, as per the Grand Jury report included in numerous links in this very thread: > [@](#): > > Spanier signed off on their decision to ban Sandusky from bringing children from his charity, The Second Mile, into the Penn State football building. > > **The ban, Curley admitted, was unenforceable**. > > And in fact, Sandusky attended Second Mile football camps with kids on other Penn State campuses as recently as 2008. – my highlights. Asshole. To say nothing of the absurd fact that they felt said bad was warranted in the first place, yet obviously not enough to go to the authorities. Kind of like “rape kids all you want, just not in our locker room.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sinsaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sinsaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinsaint)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/836 "2011-11-12T00:12:27Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Grand jury investigations are held in secrecy. Perhaps this wasn’t technically a grand jury, but I see no evidence that Sandusky was aware of the details surrounding the investigations of him and his activities. So when victim 7 said Sandusky, his wife and a friend of his repeatedly called in the weeks leading up to him testifying saying the “matter was very important” they didn’t know about the GJ investigation? I guess Sandusky’s wife was just calling him out of the blue to ask if his ass was healed up after all that time. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/837 "2011-11-12T00:14:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So the university fired Paterno but Curley and Schultz are still officially on the payroll and the school is paying their legal expenses. What are you bitching about now? Exactly that. For a moderator, you’re awful slow on the uptake, aren’t you? Maybe you need to take a reading comprehension course. And the fact that so many are off on an orgy of hate on Paterno and don’t bother to remember that old Joe FOLLOWED campus guidelines AND the law— AND co-operated with the grand jury investigation. While tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber were the ones that PROVABLY conspired to cover it up, AND got charged with perjury? It was turned into a convenient excuse to get rid of Paterno. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/838 "2011-11-12T00:17:53Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > …Even the timeline you linked to backs up the notion that most of the people involved in this case did not have a full history of the allegations made about Sandusky. \*\* As isolated incidents, many people seemed to have (unfortunately) given Sandusky the benefit of the doubt based on his reputation and history\*\*… – bolding mine. Yet another gem! As I alreay posted [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14451832#post14451832), anyone would be hard pressed to call FOUR incident ('08 excluded) of the same vile nature “isolated.” In fact, I’d say that after the second one, that should have become his “reputation and history” to anyone in the know! Sure as fuck is now. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/839 "2011-11-12T00:21:22Z")
> [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > It was turned into a convenient excuse to get rid of Paterno. Was someone looking for an excuse to get rid of Paterno before all this started? I thought they loved him. I’m confused by this statement. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/840 "2011-11-12T00:32:59Z")
> [@LateComer](#): > > Just wanted to point out that Penn State is NOT, despite it’s name, a state school. It is a [private institution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_System_of_Higher_Education) (though it was state owned at one time) which does get a [large amount of money](http://deadspin.com/5857531/how-penn-state-sucks-up-taxpayer-money-and-hides-its-ugly-behavior-from-taxpayers)from the state of Pennsylvania as do 3 other “State Related” schools. > > They are on their own and any attempt to squeeze more money from the state will be suspect at this point. In fact it may be the case that this will be an opportunity to quit giving them money all together or at least significantly cut funds. I don’t think Pennsylvania taxpayers will be keen to contribute to any pay-outs. This one isn’t. You are probably right. I concentrated too much on the name “State”. I should have said that the students will pay. Further development: PSU’s credit rating my be downgraded which will add to their operational expenses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=43)