# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/901 "2011-11-12T15:06:13Z")
> [@Sinsaint](#): > > I disagree. When it comes right down to it, ending the season now hurts the players and the fans the most. Especially the players. They have worked their whole lives for this and shouldn’t be punished for things they didn’t do and weren’t aware of. I think a better option for PSU would be to donate 100% of the profits from the rest of the games this season to a charity (and not Second Mile either) dedicated to helping children who have suffered sexual abuse. That would show that they care about the victims and not impact everyone who did nothing wrong. Why give the money to a charity when there are people out there who were raped by their very own staffer? Any cash that’s collected (not that Penn State will actually DO this) should go to the victims. ---
**Author:** ![Sinsaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sinsaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinsaint)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/902 "2011-11-12T15:24:32Z")
> [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > [http://thatlawyerdude.blogspot.com/2011/11/strong-defense-of-joe-paterno-why.html](http://thatlawyerdude.blogspot.com/2011/11/strong-defense-of-joe-paterno-why.html) That was almost too funny. One problem with this guy’s logic… Paterno reported the incident to Curley, who is the PSU Athletic Director. To my knowledge the Athletic Director isn’t “for all intents and purposes, the police commissioner.” Paterno never spoke to Schultz ergo he never reported anything to anyone that he knew was in a position to criminally investigate the matter. His whole argument is out the window. ---
**Author:** ![Sinsaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sinsaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinsaint)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/903 "2011-11-12T15:45:16Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Why give the money to a charity when there are people out there who were raped by their very own staffer? Any cash that’s collected (not that Penn State will actually DO this) should go to the victims. Actually, I feel the same way but PSU isn’t going to give the victims a dime on their own accord. That would be like admitting guilt. Besides, I have pretty good idea that PSU will be giving these kids a lot of money at some point anyway. I say donate the profits to a sexual abuse charity to show they stand against what happened and when these victims show up wanting their money hand it over without a fuss. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/904 "2011-11-12T16:08:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s all in your mind, **Guin**. Facts are facts, and the facts as we know them so far, don’t agree with a lot of the hysteria in this thread. And hewing to the facts does not equate to covering up for child molestation. > > \ > > Those of us that you people are so mad at are not “enabling child abuse” or “taking up for child rapists”; we’re merely keeping level heads and looking at the situation in the same way you if the crime were of a less inflammatory nature. OK, then maybe you can speak slowly for those of us who are hysterically clutching our torches and pitchforks. Please outline for us what the facts are versus things that are not facts. I agree that speculation about the motives of those people who didn’t do enough is just that—speculation, not fact, although I find it understandable. When someone acts in a way that is so perplexing and resulted in a lot of damage to children, of course there’s a tendency to try to wrap your head around what might have motivated them to act (or not act, as the case may be) in that way. But can you point to some other things that are _wrongly being trotted out as facts_? Seems to me that the items outlined in the GJ text really are worthy of anger. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/905 "2011-11-12T16:08:22Z")
> [@Sinsaint](#): > > … he may be in the clear because he didn’t suspect abuse of a child through his employment… I don’t understand your thinking. He was in the locker room and saw the incident _because_ he was employed by PSU. Unless things are very different there – graduate assistants are usually paid employees of the institution as well as students. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/906 "2011-11-12T16:15:46Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I don’t understand your thinking. He was in the locker room and saw the incident _because_ he was employed by PSU. Unless things are very different there – graduate assistants are usually paid employees of the institution as well as students. He’s talking about the GA’s father, not the GA himself. ---
**Author:** ![Sinsaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sinsaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinsaint)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/907 "2011-11-12T16:17:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Quoted for truth. Did you actually read it? It’s filled with so much bullshit it’s unreal. First, Joepa reported the incident to Curley who is the AD. Curley’s job duties have nothing to do with campus police. That would be Schultz and Paterno, to my knowledge, never reported anything to him. Second, Joepa or McQueary, for that matter could have called the police instantly without worring about insubordination because of the whistleblower law. Third, Joepa could have made a report without worrying about Sandusky suing him or PSU because Joepa would have been acting as an agent of the school and any party is shielded from a civil lawsuit when the accusation is reported in good faith. Fourth, Joepa wouldn’t have been viewed as attempting to take out a possible rival for his job since Sandusky was retired at that point. Fifth, whoever wrote this blog is clearly an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/908 "2011-11-12T16:19:04Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > He’s talking about the GA’s father, not the GA himself. To channel Rick Perry, “Oops”. ---
**Author:** ![Sinsaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sinsaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinsaint)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/909 "2011-11-12T16:19:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I don’t understand your thinking. He was in the locker room and saw the incident _because_ he was employed by PSU. Unless things are very different there – graduate assistants are usually paid employees of the institution as well as students. Sorry, I was talking about John McQueary (Daddy McQueary). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/910 "2011-11-12T16:34:38Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The author’s mistake is in believing this would have been a bad thing. When something actually _is_ unsafe, calling attention to this fact is often the first step in solving the problem. Unfortunately, far too often this IS the school’s major concern. Rumors that the campus is unsafe means that a lot of students won’t enroll, either due to their own concerns or their parents’ concerns. This is why I call the campus police department the place where crimes embarrassing to the administration go to die. I know Penn State has had multiple problems with on-campus sexual assaults being referred to the campus police and just quietly fading away. I can’t give cites at the moment, but I actually lived on campus for two years and that was very much in the air at the time (early 90s). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/911 "2011-11-12T16:48:09Z")
Sorry…duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/912 "2011-11-12T17:04:42Z")
> [@Sinsaint](#): > > That was almost too funny. One problem with this guy’s logic… > > Paterno reported the incident to Curley, who is the PSU Athletic Director. To my knowledge the Athletic Director isn’t “for all intents and purposes, the police commissioner.” Paterno never spoke to Schultz ergo he never reported anything to anyone that he knew was in a position to criminally investigate the matter. His whole argument is out the window. Did you read the comments…? you know the ones where several policemen - including a Pennsylvania State Trooper, other lawyers, a child advocacy worker, several more university level teachers at other schools AGREED that Paternos hands were tied? Or just the ones you agreed with? The State Police trooper one was interesting - He said his boss has political ambitions, and started this firestorm to further those. Or the analysis, again by another legal professional, that said the whole thing was only made public because the case that Corbett’s team built was so weak that Sandusky would probably walk without more victims coming forward? NONE of those folks think a child molester should go free. They DO think that a high tech lynching was staged to get people like you to jump off the deep end. Some of you need to take your meds before you hurt somebody ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/913 "2011-11-12T17:12:15Z")
The Penn State/Nebraska game is on TV here, and the announcers are talking up how focused and energized the players are. They’re also talking about how “tens of thousands” of fans are wearing blue in support of the victims. Penn State’s colors are blue - what a sacrifice that the fans had to make to show their support. I am very torn about this game - on the one hand, the current football players are not guilty of anything. On the other hand, a part of me feels that this game (and the rest of the season) should have been cancelled, because to play football as if nothing’s happened feels disrespectful. I am well aware that this is an irrational feeling. It just…makes me uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/914 "2011-11-12T17:19:41Z")
I’m both a Pitt and a Penn State fan. I live in Pittsburgh. I was born here. I’m a member of the university community. However, I grew up in St. Louis, so the rivalry between the two was not part of my experience growing up, and the success of the Penn State program helped support my identity as a Pennsylvanian in a foreign land. To have Penn State and Joe Paterno fail in their duties as human beings so badly is heartbreaking. This whole situation – the abuse of young children over such a long time, the fact that they were boys already attempting to cope with challenging life circumstances, the fact that it was committed by a person that I respected as a fan, and who these kids believed was in a position as a protector, and the covering up of it that allowed it to continue by an organization that I admire is devastating. In my position, I’ve had to make Childline reports on multiple occasions – more often for physical abuse concerns than for sexual abuse concerns. Nevertheless, it’s never easy. I can empathize with the desire, at some level, to wish that you did not have to make the report, to want it all to be not true. When I’ve had to do it, there’s also always been an element of doubt as to what actually had happened and whether a report really is justified. When it happens in the context of a therapeutic relationship, there’s also the complication of feeling conflicted about wanting to help make positive change for a family while also knowing that you have to do something that is, at least in the short run, going to massively increase the overall stress on the family. But the law is pretty clear as a mandated reporter what your responsibilities are. I don’t know for a fact that Paterno was in a position to be a mandated reporter, but that’s really beside the point with the facts as they stand in the grand jury testimony. So, with all lifetime of fondness and admiration for Penn State and Joe Paterno, and from the perspective of someone who knows how difficult it can be to make that call (although I’ve never been in the position of having some third party witness first hand the behavior in question), I can safely say that those taking the position of **Starving Artist** here are insanely fucked up. For **Starving Artist** himself, that’s no surprise. The guy’s been an obvious moron of the highest caliber from day one. While his defense of the sexual abuse of boys is a little bit of a surprise for me, it does fit with his desire to return to the glory days of old. Who knew that those glory days were those of Ancient Greece? (Having said all that, I still bristle at the attacks on Penn State as a whole - State Pen and Pederastry U or whatever that idiot gonzomax said. Also, **Kolga** , perhaps it makes no difference, but the wearing of all blue is a nice statement and goes against the tradition of everyone wearing white. Yeah, I can see how those things don’t matter, really, and that Penn State will have to struggle to regain its respect. It’s just all such a terrible, terrible situation.) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/915 "2011-11-12T17:21:02Z")
> [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > Did you read the comments…? you know the ones where several policemen - including a Pennsylvania State Trooper, other lawyers, a child advocacy worker, several more university level teachers at other schools AGREED that Paternos hands were tied? Or just the ones you agreed with? Let’s see . . . the anonymous comments to an anonymous blog post by a self-asserted criminal defense lawyer (a category of humanity that is, itself, about five minutes in front of being indicted, IME). Yeah. Read them. Gave them all the weight they deserved (it was none). JP’s hands tied? There was no legal, ethical, or practical bar or consequence to JP reporting this to the county or state police (notice that the blogger shyster set up a false dilemma that centrally turned on the alleged paradox of “how could JP imagine reporting this to **campus** police when he’d already reported it to **the nominal head of the organization that controlled campus police???**.” Ths answer is, he could and should have reported it to anyone who accepted those sort of reports. There is no real world in which Sandusky would have sued JP for slander and gotten anywhere. I’ve never heard of a successful slander suit based on a good-faith police report of an alleged serious crime. Nor does someone whose entire career is dependent upon JP try to frontally attack (not his favored mode, anyhow) JP, ever. There is no real world in which JP gets in trouble for “insubordination” My God, how can anyone even type that idiocy? The press has long reported that Paterno’s nominal “bosses” asked him to retire gracefully several times over the past decade and Paterno basically said – “Thanks, but I don’t think so.” And got away with it (for the non-football-initiated, AFAICT these long-rumored retirement requests were mostly/totally about his advanced age, the stagnant program, the need for an orderly coaching succession, and not related to Sandusky – which again reflects badly on the institution). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/916 "2011-11-12T17:22:50Z")
**Hentor** , the Penn State/State Pen thing is a very old joke, around ages before this all happened. One of the actual state pens is about 5 miles from State College (Rockview SCI). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/917 "2011-11-12T17:31:20Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **Hentor** , the Penn State/State Pen thing is a very old joke, around ages before this all happened. One of the actual state pens is about 5 miles from State College (Rockview SCI). Oh, I know. I get that, I get that its an easy joke to make, and I would be making the same joke if my heart wasn’t broken. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/918 "2011-11-12T17:36:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Also, **Kolga** , perhaps it makes no difference, but the wearing of all blue is a nice statement and goes against the tradition of everyone wearing white. Yeah, I can see how those things don’t matter, really, and that Penn State will have to struggle to regain its respect. It’s just all such a terrible, terrible situation.) I did not know that the tradition for home games was to wear white. If that’s the case, then I guess it was at least a symbol of something. Of course, I also heard that some students were wearing blue in support of Paterno, so… Part of me feels that they should have cancelled the rest of the season, but part of me recognizes that such a move punishes people who were and are truly innocent (as opposed to people like Paterno who might be LEGALLY innocent but are morally guilty). It’s just a sad, sad week. One of the professors from Penn State who participates on an academic board that I frequent said that the counseling graduate students are passing out bookmarks at the game that have tips on how to recognize child abuse, and who to contact if child abuse is suspected. I think that’s a good, practical event, much more so than wearing a certain color. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/919 "2011-11-12T17:55:14Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > …Penn State’s colors are blue - what a sacrifice that the fans had to make to show their support… Just to clarify here… Are you saying that fans are wearing the normal school colors, and the announcers are passing it off as some organized show of support for the victims? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/920 "2011-11-12T17:59:05Z")
Blue is the color of child abuse prevention and some people have been encouraging everyone at the game to wear blue, but since blue is also one of Penn State’s colors, it sounds like a poorly-executed display. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=47)