# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1461 "2011-12-16T17:10:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know as well as I do that he was referring to wishing he had called the police in regard to McQueary’s statement instead of turning it over to his superiors at the university. His comment had nothing to do whatsoever with regard to what he allegedly knew about Sandusky raping kids and having kept quiet about. What it is, is a freely made admission that he knew damn well that Sandusky was raping kids, and all he did was the legally mandated minimum. And, when the investigation went nowhere, due to his “superiors” committing their own crimes, he didn’t ask any questions, he just let it drop. There is nothing misleading here, it’s only a question of whether you find the behavior despicable, or whether you figure it’s A-OK because he dropped the problem in someone else’s lap. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1462 "2011-12-16T17:26:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If I had to speculate, I would guess that McQueery wasn’t sure at the time precisely what he was witnessing, only that it looked wrong. He was probably too far away to observe the nitty gritty details, and if the showers were on (I don’t know) it would have further obscured his vision. Plus, he was probably too shocked and agitated to pay close attention to the details. > > As he replayed it in his mind later it became more clear to him that he had actually witnessed anal sex. But this evolving thought process would have impacted what he told to various people, which may have changed over time (including in his grand jury testimony). > > Again, this is speculation, of course. > > [IIRC, McQueery testified that both Sandusky and the kid saw him. So somewhere out there is an approximately 19 year old guy who has yet to come forward.] This post, and subsequent posts from me along the same lines, came in for quite a lot of outraged criticism in this thread. However, note [the following](http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/16/justice/pennsylvania-sex-scandal/index.html?hpt=hp_t1): > [@](#): > > He said Sandusky was behind the boy and the boy was up against a wall. He said he believes Sandusky was sexually molesting the boy but he did not see insertion and did not hear protests. He said he believes the two were engaged in intercourse but he cannot be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1463 "2011-12-16T17:28:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Trouble is, they’re statement is misleading or incorrect and I challenge it by explaining just where they are wrong. Lots of posters don’t like that. The only misleading or incorrect statements here, by and large, have been your bullshit about “horsing around” or “touching on the leg.” There are no more “facts to come out” about Paterno and no dispute that he knew that felonious sexual assault had occurred, and did the bare minimum to redress it. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1464 "2011-12-16T17:33:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This post, and subsequent posts from me along the same lines, came in for quite a lot of outraged criticism in this thread. However, note [the following](http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/16/justice/pennsylvania-sex-scandal/index.html?hpt=hp_t1): I cannot believe you think that link vindicates you in any way. From the same source: > [@](#): > > Former Penn State star quarterback and now star witness Mike McQueary testified Friday that he told university officials that he saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a locker-room shower in 2002, telling them it was “extremely sexual in nature.” How many alternative explanations are there to a naked man standing cheek and jowl (as it were) behind a naked boy, in a shower, after hearing “sex sounds,” that are something other than anal intercourse? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1465 "2011-12-16T17:34:28Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > The only misleading or incorrect statements here, by and large, have been your bullshit about “horsing around” or “touching on the leg.” There are no more “facts to come out” about Paterno and no dispute that he knew that felonious sexual assault had occurred, and did the bare minimum to redress it. Nonsense. Virtually all of the dishonesty (and/or incredible stupidity) in this thread has come from anti-Paterno posters. Just look at the posts on this tab from Merneith and Cheesesteak, for example (I can’t be bothered to check previous tabs). Fact is, Huerta, that you personally have adopted a position in this matter that it makes no difference how much detail Paterno knew, and this renders that issue moot. That’s your prerrogative. But others disagree with you about that, and from that perspective the details matter, and continued dishonesty about the matter by Paterno-bashers is thus significant. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1466 "2011-12-16T17:36:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know as well as I do that he was referring to wishing he had called the police in regard to McQueary’s statement instead of turning it over to his superiors at the university. OMG you are delusional. _Wishing that Paterno had called the police_ is EXACTLY what this damn thread is about. That’s it. That’s where the outrage is. That’s why people are mad at Paterno… _he didn’t call the police when he could have_. You have just admitted that you know this, by typing that very sentence. Do you even think about what you write? :smack: > [@](#): > > His comment had nothing to do whatsoever with regard to what he allegedly knew about Sandusky raping kids and having kept quiet about. Rape…molesting…something of a sexual nature… the _exact_ words don’t matter, because ANY term is enough to have acted upon, as _he himself realized when he wishes he had called the police_. And he did know that Sandusky was doing something of a sexual nature with a young boy because he said, essentially 'I was told that Sandusky was doing something of a sexual nature with a young boy." How could he have ever uttered that sentence if he didn’t know anything about it? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1467 "2011-12-16T17:39:32Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > How many alternative explanations are there to a naked man standing cheek and jowl (as it were) behind a naked boy, in a shower, after hearing “sex sounds,” that are something other than anal intercourse? Doesn’t make much difference. My point (at the time) was not that there had been no rape, but that McQueary was likely unsure at the time of what he had seen and arrived at the rape conclusion subsequently. (This has a bearing on the likelihood that he told JP the next day that it was rape.) But beyond that, you’re wrong as to the facts. As I’ve noted previously in this thread, in the 1998 shower incident Sandusky was in virtually the same position, and no rape has been alleged (despite a police investigation). ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1468 "2011-12-16T17:42:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In other words more of the same, eh? > > The point is that my posts have been met primarily with insults, not reasoned argument. I think you’d have a pretty hard time arguing otherwise. Sorry that I haven’t read all 1500 posts in this thread before responding to this one, but I’m curious. SA, can you please quote any Dopers that said "“SHRIEK!!!” “BULLSHIT!!!” “FUCKING CREEP!!!” "BET YOU’RE A PEDOPHILE TOO!!! “ASSHOLE!!!” " Specifically the “bet you’re a pedophile too” part. Don’t worry. It doesn’t have to be an exact quote. Any similar phrasing that conveys the same meaning would suffice. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1469 "2011-12-16T17:45:59Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Sorry that I haven’t read all 1500 posts in this thread before responding to this one, but I’m curious. SA, can you please quote any Dopers that said "“SHRIEK!!!” “BULLSHIT!!!” “FUCKING CREEP!!!” "BET YOU’RE A PEDOPHILE TOO!!! “ASSHOLE!!!” " > > Specifically the “bet you’re a pedophile too” part. Don’t worry. It doesn’t have to be an exact quote. Any similar phrasing that conveys the same meaning would suffice. > > Thanks! It’s there. I don’t have the time and energy to dig through the thread just now, but it’s there. I don’t know what made you so sure it was a false claim and challenge SA about it, but whatever it was, you may want to reconsider it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1470 "2011-12-16T17:49:38Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Paterno swore to the Grand Jury that he was told that Sandusky had been seen doing “something of a sexual nature to a young boy”. This is how we know that Paterno knew about Sandusky. But there are two things that need to be considered in assessing Paterno’s alleged malfeasance with regard to what it is that he knew. One, “something of a sexual nature” is extremely vague and could refer to something that the witness misunderstood and only thought he saw, or it could refer to a range of behavior that includes something inappropriate but not necessarily illegal, such as tickling or hugging. Thus the response reasonably required of Paterno would depend upon how serious Sandusky’s behavior appeared to him. Some things might require that the university’s officials call Sandusky in and tell him to knock off the inappropriate but not illegal behavior, and others would require immediate and forceful action; and two, it is becoming more and more apparent that McQueary might not have said what people thought he said when this thread started, as it’s beginning to appear now that McQueary did not witness anal intercourse at all, but instead presupposed it based upon sounds he heard and observing Sandusky pull the kid back into the shower after the he peered around the wall at McQueary. Sure, it’s likely that something wrong was going on but we don’t know exactly what, and given that Paterno was given only a vague and speculative description of what was going on, it would not have been immediately clear to him what Sandusky was actually guilty of (i.e., inappropriate vs. illegal behavior) and which would be the appropriate action to take. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What it is, is a freely made admission that he knew damn well that Sandusky was raping kids, and all he did was the legally mandated minimum. And, when the investigation went nowhere, due to his “superiors” committing their own crimes, he didn’t ask any questions, he just let it drop. > > There is nothing misleading here, it’s only a question of whether you find the behavior despicable, or whether you figure it’s A-OK because he dropped the problem in someone else’s lap. Sigh. Nope, there is nothing but supposition to support anything you just said regarding Paterno or me. But you’ll be happy to know that I’ve got stuff to do now and will be gone most of the rest of the day, so you can give full vent to your nonsensical knee-jerk rage without factual interference from me. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This post, and subsequent posts from me along the same lines, came in for quite a lot of outraged criticism in this thread. However, note the following:… I thought I saw somewhere upthread (have to leave shortly so don’t have time to look it up) that the story has been updated and what McQueary actually saw was a child look lean around the opening going into the shower to look at him, followed by Sandusky’s arm circling the kid from behind and to pull him back inside. If I’m wrong then I’ll retract that particular comment. However, my assessment of the nature of the statement made to Paterno remains as I described. > [@mnemosyne](#): > > OMG you are delusional. > > Wishing that Paterno had called the police is EXACTLY what this damn thread is about. That’s it. That’s where the outrage is. That’s why people are mad at Paterno… he didn’t call the police when he could have. You have just admitted that you know this, by typing that very sentence. Do you even think about what you write? Nope, sorry, I guess I should have spelled it out. Yes, Paterno wishes he had called the police! And why? Because people have used the fact that he didn’t to bring down the university. It’s not because he thinks he did anything morally wrong regarding what he was told by McQueary. And now I’ve got to go. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1471 "2011-12-16T18:01:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, Paterno wishes he had called the police! And why? Because people have used the fact that he didn’t to bring down the university. Wow, looks like Joe Pa is a much more disgusting person than I first thought. Little kids brought onto the Penn State campus were getting sodomized in a Penn State locker room, and his regret is that his lack of action may make Penn State look bad? He’s not so much worried about all the other little kids that may have been raped, just the tough PR spot that the school is now in. I’m not going to say anything bad about Joe Pa anymore, even I don’t think he’s as horrible a person as you seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1472 "2011-12-16T18:03:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s there. I don’t have the time and energy to dig through the thread just now, but it’s there. > > I don’t know what made you so sure it was a false claim and challenge SA about it, but whatever it was, you may want to reconsider it. Well I wasn’t sure. That’s why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1473 "2011-12-16T18:08:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I thought I saw somewhere upthread (have to leave shortly so don’t have time to look it up) that the story has been updated and what McQueary actually saw was a child look lean around the opening going into the shower to look at him, followed by Sandusky’s arm circling the kid from behind and to pull him back inside. If I’m wrong then I’ll retract that particular comment. That’s an alternative version, not an “update”. One of the first guys McQueary told it to says this is what McQueary told him at the time. I linked to that earlier because it too supports the notion that McQueary was not initially sure it was a rape. But it conflicts with the story that McQueary told the GJ and what he said in court today. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1474 "2011-12-16T18:44:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Doesn’t make much difference. My point (at the time) was not that there had been no rape, but that McQueary was likely unsure at the time of what he had seen and arrived at the rape conclusion subsequently. (This has a bearing on the likelihood that he told JP the next day that it was rape.) > > But beyond that, you’re wrong as to the facts. As I’ve noted previously in this thread, in the 1998 shower incident Sandusky was in virtually the same position, and no rape has been alleged (despite a police investigation). There’s some more details in [this account](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/12/16/penn-state-hearing.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > He said Sandusky was behind the boy he estimated to be 10 or 12 years old, with his hands wrapped around the boy’s waist. He said the boy was facing a wall, with his hands on it. > > McQueary said he has never described what he saw as anal rape or anal intercourse and couldn’t see Sandusky’s genitals, but that “it was very clear that it looked like there was intercourse going on.” > > Under cross examination by an attorney for Curley, McQueary reiterated that he had not seen Sandusky penetrating or fondling the boy but was nearly certain he knew an assault happened in part because the two were standing so close and Sandusky’s arms were wrapped around the youth. Now if you look at the GJ report, it describes Sandusky’s propensity for giving naked bear hugs to kids in showers WRT Victims 3, 5 & 6, and he is not alleged to have raped any of those kids. So it’s very possible that - beyond initial uncertainty - McQueary is actually wrong, and he did not witness a rape. (Might depend on what underlies the “in part”.) [Obligatory disclaimer: this is not to say that giving naked bear hugs to kids in showers is OK, so any dimwits who would otherwise carry on about this can spare the effort.] ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1475 "2011-12-16T19:26:47Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Well I wasn’t sure. That’s why I asked. He’s as full of shit on this as he and **SA** are on the topic generally. It isn’t there, and if it is, quote it. Otherwise, no one will believe you because you’ve both shown yourselves to be hysterical liars. **Enderw24** , look over this page and the last one. Just those two. Even setting aside what you presumably already know about **SA’s** character from having posted here previously (it’s very poor), you can see clearly who the crazy frothers are, and who is justifiably outraged at child rape and the subsequent apologetics. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1476 "2011-12-16T19:34:29Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > He’s as full of shit on this as he and **SA** are on the topic generally. It isn’t there, and if it is, quote it. Here’s one example. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14458908&postcount=980](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14458908&postcount=980) I’m pretty sure there were others along these lines. But one should suffice. Gone for the weekend. Adios for now. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1477 "2011-12-16T20:11:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There’s some more details in [this account](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/12/16/penn-state-hearing.ap/index.html)Now if you look at the GJ report, it describes Sandusky’s propensity for giving naked bear hugs to kids in showers WRT Victims 3, 5 & 6, and he is not alleged to have raped any of those kids. So it’s very possible that - beyond initial uncertainty - McQueary is actually wrong, and he did not witness a rape. (Might depend on what underlies the “in part”.) > > [Obligatory disclaimer: this is not to say that giving naked bear hugs to kids in showers is OK, so any dimwits who would otherwise carry on about this can spare the effort.] How convenient of you to leave out the sentence right before in your cite that describes McQueary hearing slapping sounds before seeing them in the shower. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1478 "2011-12-16T20:33:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > But there are two things that need to be considered in assessing Paterno’s alleged malfeasance with regard to what it is that he knew. One, “something of a sexual nature” is extremely vague and could refer to something that the witness misunderstood and only thought he saw, or it could refer to a range of behavior that includes something inappropriate but not necessarily illegal, such as tickling or hugging. Thus the response reasonably required of Paterno would depend upon how serious Sandusky’s behavior appeared to him. Some things might require that the university’s officials call Sandusky in and tell him to knock off the inappropriate but not illegal behavior, and others would require immediate and forceful action; and two, it is becoming more and more apparent that McQueary might not have said what people thought he said when this thread started, as it’s beginning to appear now that McQueary did not witness anal intercourse at all, but instead presupposed it based upon sounds he heard and observing Sandusky pull the kid back into the shower after the he peered around the wall at McQueary. Sure, it’s likely that something wrong was going on but we don’t know exactly what, and given that Paterno was given only a vague and speculative description of what was going on, it would not have been immediately clear to him what Sandusky was actually guilty of (i.e., inappropriate vs. illegal behavior) and which would be the appropriate action to take. Incorrect. 1. There is no acceptable amount of sexual contact permissible between an adult and a child. 2. it is not Paterno’s job to determine the seriousness of Sandusky’s behavior. Therefore, Paterno’s only acceptable response would have been to contact those whose job it is to investigate Sandusky’s behavior after he was informed something sexual occured between Sandusky and a child. It actually doesn’t matter what McQueary saw or what his exact words to Paterno were. Once Paterno was told something (anything!) sexual occured - and by his sworn testimony we know that he was told this - then he should have called the proper authorities. That would be police, if you were wondering. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s an alternative version, not an “update”. One of the first guys McQueary told it to says this is what McQueary told him at the time. > > I linked to that earlier because it too supports the notion that McQueary was not initially sure it was a rape. But it conflicts with the story that McQueary told the GJ and what he said in court today. And I’ve already pointed that this “alternative version” is a story being floated by an anonymous source. The “One of the first guys” who supposedly heard McQueary’s story, which you’re refering to, family friend Jonathon Dranov, is not mentioned in the Grand Jury testimony and has refused to comment or confirm this anonymous source’s version of events. ```auto Today's devleopments, courtesy of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11350/1197337-100-0.stm McQueary just testified today the following description: [quote] His voice clear and steady, Mr. McQueary said he had been watching a football movie that night in 2002 -- right before spring break -- which motivated him to go to the Louis and Mildred Lasch Football Building to pick up some recruiting tapes and drop off a new pair of sneakers. Walking into the locker room, he said he heard a "rhythmic slapping sound" he believed was skin against skin. He heard something coming from the shower. Mr. McQueary said he "shockingly" saw a boy against a wall with Mr. Sandusky behind him. Both, he said, were naked. "The boy was up against the wall, facing the wall," Mr. McQueary said. Mr. Sandusky stood behind the boy with his hands on the boy's waist, Mr. McQueary testified. He didn't see sexual penetration or hear yelling, but he thought the boy was being molested, Mr. McQueary said. He thought Mr. Sandusky was "having some sort of intercourse with him, that's what I thought I saw. I stepped back ... I didn't want to see any more." He slammed a locker, he said, and went back to the shower a third time. Both had turned and were facing him. Mr. McQueary said he didn't go into shower or say anything -- nor did they. Then he said he went to his office and called his father. [/quote] Still no mention of Dranov. Dranov has not testified. (FTR- they're testifying today in the preliminary hearing on Curley and Schultz.) So until Jonathon Dranov himself steps up and says that he heard something different from McQueary, I dont think there's any reason to give much creadence about the anonymous source. Mc Queary goes on to testify that he didn't use the word sodomy in front of Paterno, but he certainly said it was very sexual behavior that he had witnessed, and used the word "fondling." As I said, whether McQueary said sodomy or fondling or buttfucking, it wouldn't change the fact that Paterno should have called the police, not just kicked it upstairs to the Athletic Director and pretended it all never happened. The way he washed his hands of the matter is why he deserved to be fired. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1479 "2011-12-16T21:09:11Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > As I said, whether McQueary said sodomy or fondling or buttfucking, it wouldn’t change the fact that Paterno should have called the police, not just kicked it upstairs to the Athletic Director and pretended it all never happened. The way he washed his hands of the matter is why he deserved to be fired. And here we are, 30 pages later, with the point of the thread (not that we haven’t made it before). Paterno knew sexual contact between an adult and a minor had occurred. He had a moral obligation to do more than he did. He failed that moral obligation. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1480 "2011-12-16T21:26:26Z")
I’m glad he at least slammed a locker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=75)