# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/141 "2011-11-08T05:28:18Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > It’s his understanding that the University Athletic Director has the authority to investigate and evaluate these sort of claims. I always thought they ran the athletic department and scheduled future games for the volleyball and soccer teams, but apparently where SA lives they investigate child rape claims. Here, we call the police. This. Apparently, since Paterno met the bare minimum legal requirement to report this, he’s off the hook in some people’s opinions. Of course, the moral thing would be to follow up and make sure a real investigation took place. But since it’s not required by law, then Paterno didn’t do it. The non-campus police were never notified. This is a pattern of at LEAST extreme indifference to the safety and well-being of children, and at the most extreme possibility, a cover-up. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/142 "2011-11-08T05:34:06Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > This. Apparently, since Paterno met the bare minimum legal requirement to report this, he’s off the hook in some people’s opinions. > > Of course, the moral thing would be to follow up and make sure a real investigation took place. But since it’s not required by law, then Paterno didn’t do it. The non-campus police were never notified. This is a pattern of at LEAST extreme indifference to the safety and well-being of children, and at the most extreme possibility, a cover-up. Oh, PLEASE don’t start arguing morality with SA, who believes there is no such thing. Reputations apparently DO exist, however. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/143 "2011-11-08T05:34:15Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > No, people are angry because Paterno must have known there was no followup investigation to the allegations, and did nothing more than the bare minimum the law required, knowing that his superiors at the university didn’t even do that much. [steve jobs] Okay, one more thing. [/steve jobs] Do you not realize what you’re saying? People are presuming that Paterno “must” have known, but they don’t know that for a fact, do they? No, they don’t! Therefore, they can’t reasonably conclude that Paterno knowingly chose to do as little as possible (the “minimum the law required”, whatever that means. What would you have him do, take the law into his own hands like I said above?), nor can they conclude that he knew his superiors weren’t doing their duty. Further, it would not only have been irresponsible for him to have taken matters into his own hands. What would you have had him to do? Shoot the guy? Beat him up? Open himself and the university up to lawsuits for damages by taking the word of one of his coaching assistants as ironclad proof and going after the guy in some other way when in the eyes of the law it boils down to one man’s word against another’s? Paterno had no legally substantive basis to take further action against Sandusky, and he had no factually substantive basis to take further action against Sandusky. End of story. It wasn’t Paterno’s job or moral obligation to decide for himself what the truth was and then take matters into his own hands, and anyone who claims it was simply isn’t thinking straight. And now I’m out, so you can all [del]rant and rave unthinkingly based soley on emotion[/del] commiserate with each other, and I can get on with my night. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/144 "2011-11-08T05:36:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Oh, PLEASE don’t start arguing morality with SA, who believes there is no such thing. Reputations apparently DO exist, however. Never before has so much wrongness dwelt in one person’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/145 "2011-11-08T05:39:00Z")
Paterno must have known if there was an investigation because it would have involved him and his staff being questioned by the police. It really is as simple as that. All I would have expected him to do, and McCreary even more so, was to call the police once it became evident that their superiors had not done so. That’s it – nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/146 "2011-11-08T05:40:02Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Never before has so much wrongness dwelt in one person’s head. Seriously, you can find threads on it. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/147 "2011-11-08T05:41:23Z")
_There is no “I” in TEAM!_ There is one in Pedophile, however. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/148 "2011-11-08T05:42:29Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Seriously, you can find threads on it. Oh, must I? Because I think I would find more benefit from slamming my head repeatedly on my desk until blood starts leaking out of my ears. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/149 "2011-11-08T05:49:04Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Oh, must I? Because I think I would find more benefit from slamming my head repeatedly on my desk until blood starts leaking out of my ears. That would be more fun, come to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/150 "2011-11-08T05:53:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What would you have had him to do? Shoot the guy? Beat him up? Open himself and the university up to lawsuits for damages by taking the word of one of his coaching assistants as ironclad proof and going after the guy in some other way when in the eyes of the law it boils down to one man’s word against another’s? Paterno had no legally substantive basis to take further action against Sandusky, and he had no factually substantive basis to take further action against Sandusky. End of story. It wasn’t Paterno’s job or moral obligation to decide for himself what the truth was and then take matters into his own hands, and anyone who claims it was simply isn’t thinking straight. I don’t see anybody in this thread claiming that Paterno should have “decide[d] for himself what the truth was and then take[n] matters into his own hands.” The whole point of what we’re saying is that Paterno, rather than taking matters into his own hands, had to turn it over to the legally constituted authorities that are empowered to investigate possible crimes. He knew that either Sandusky was engaging in extremely inappropriate intimacies with a child well under age 18, or McQueary was fabricating a total lie. Determining which wasn’t his call, but that of the police and the D.A. He needed to either report it to them directly, or make sure his A.D. (his nominal superior, but for all practical purposes his employee) reported it to the cops. (That doesn’t absolve McQueary either, for that matter. He had the responsibility to report this to the police, as did Paterno, as did anyone in the Penn State bureaucracy that was informed of this story by or through Paterno.) ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/151 "2011-11-08T05:54:06Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Oh, must I? Because I think I would find more benefit from slamming my head repeatedly on my desk until blood starts leaking out of my ears. Really! **SA** : I’ll say it as simple as possible: **ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS PICK UP THE PHONE, CALL THE POLICE, AND, IF THAT WAS TOO MUCH, WASH HIS HANDS OF THE GUY TO MAKE SURE HE NEVER STEPPED FOOT ON THE PSU CAMPUS AGAIN. ALERT OTHERS THAT THIS GUY SHOULDN’T BE HAVING CONTACT WITH CHILDREN.** That didn’t happen. Repeat, that didn’t happen. It was quite simple. Therefore, he is an enabler. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/152 "2011-11-08T06:00:54Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Really! > > **SA** : I’ll say it as simple as possible: > > **ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS PICK UP THE PHONE, CALL THE POLICE, AND, IF THAT WAS TOO MUCH, WASH HIS HANDS OF THE GUY TO MAKE SURE HE NEVER STEPPED FOOT ON THE PSU CAMPUS AGAIN. ALERT OTHERS THAT THIS GUY SHOULDN’T BE HAVING CONTACT WITH CHILDREN.** > > That didn’t happen. Repeat, that didn’t happen. It was quite simple. Therefore, he is an enabler. Honestly, I don’t agree with this. He would not have been right IMO to summarily fire Sandusky over unsubstantiated allegations, and to spread the word somehow that the guy was a pedophile. And he did not have the resources or training to investigate it. But I agree with the first part. He should have called the cops after his own bosses failed to. That’s what people who actually deserve their sterling reputations do. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/153 "2011-11-08T06:23:05Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Honestly, I don’t agree with this. He would not have been right IMO to summarily fire Sandusky over unsubstantiated allegations, and to spread the word somehow that the guy was a pedophile. And he did not have the resources or training to investigate it. > > But I agree with the first part. He should have called the cops after his own bosses failed to. That’s what people who actually deserve their sterling reputations do. The point being, that after the length of time and the multiple allegations, he didn’t need to do the investigations but knowing that this guy was in constant contact with young boys some flags should have been raised. Not out of legal obligation but out of moral obligation. Joe didn’t need to do anything other that make sure the proper authorities were investigating the matter and to minimize the possible harm to other children. He didn’t do that. That is what is unforgivable. Apparently, Joe Pa is the most powerful entity on the PSU campus. Yet, it is reported that Sandusky has been there as lately as a week ago. At least, at minimum least, why wasn’t this guy banned from ever stepping foot on PSU soil years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/154 "2011-11-08T06:26:10Z")
Unless I missed something, we don’t know that Paterno was aware of any of the other allegations. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/155 "2011-11-08T06:43:31Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Unless I missed something, we don’t know that Paterno was aware of any of the other allegations. You don’t know much about coaching do you? A good/great coach (which Paterno is) not only knows his own players inside and out but he knows the opposing players. He knows where they came from, how they were recruited, what all-star teams they played on, their strengths and weaknesses and a lot more. I did some coaching and what amazed me was how the really good coaches, that were a cut above, knew so much about opposing players. My experience was at a highly competitive level but still below the college and pro level. I can only imagine what it gets like at those levels. Yet, you want us to believe that a great coach who knows so much about everyone in the game,including the referees and the score keepers, doesn’t know jack-shit about his assistant coaches. It’s just not plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/156 "2011-11-08T06:55:39Z")
Is that a joke? He would somehow know that his assistant was fucking children in some other school’s locker room? He would have know that his assistant was blowing kids because the janitors saw him and never told anyone? Honestly, you think the guy would just have confessed to him because they were so intimate? Or what? Paterno deserves al the flak he’s getting based on what we DO actually know about what he knew and what he did and failed to do. And he will deserve worse if it comes out that he knew even more. But unless you can point to some evidence that he knew, it’s just bullshit. Did I miss even a hint from any of these sources we’ve been discussing that Paterno knew about anything other than the incident McCready saw? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/157 "2011-11-08T10:50:13Z")
Don’t know about Paterno, but according to the indictment when the 2002 incident was reported Shultz remembered a campus police report from 1998. Of course nobody got a copy of that report to do anything about Sandusky then or subsequently. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/158 "2011-11-08T13:51:33Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > While Sandusky is obviously a sick, sick individual, the fact that he allowed himself to get caught and appears to have been blatant in so many ways suggests that he may have wanted to get caught. Perhaps a tiny sliver of morality deep down in his subconscious was screaming out: Please stop me! > > If only one of these other dipshits actually did something after finding out, some of these kids could have been saved. > > The only explanation I can come up with is that when covering up wrongdoings becomes institutionalized, it just becomes SOP no matter how horrible someone’s actions are. Maybe OSU covering up student athletes selling jerseys is not all that unrelated to PSU covering up child rape, as far apart as they may appear to be for those of us on the outside. I can’t help but compare this to the Catholic Church’s long time cover-up of priests abusing thousands of kids. I don’t really think so. That’s a common meme, that stupid serial offenders “want to get caught.” Some people think that BTK “wanted to get caught” and that is why, after decades of inactivity he sent a letter taunting police (on a disk that contained information that lead police right to him.) What was actually the case is BTK was an egotistical narcissist, and that’s part of his psyche that was involved in making him the serial killer that he was (although there’s obviously more to it than that.) BTK did not think he could get caught, and he sent the disk in because of his narcissism/ego. I’d argue a serial child rapist like Sandusky, who had shown serial disregard to the rights and feelings of others for most of his adult life (most likely) probably was an extreme narcissist and felt that he was invincible, he probably got off more than normal by doing these things in semi-public places and he felt so untouchable he never thought this would come out. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/159 "2011-11-08T13:58:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s my understanding that Paterno did report it to the people who are actually equipped to investigate and evaluate such claims. What I’m attempting to explain is why Paterno didn’t instantly jump up and go storming off to make a citizen’s arrest of Sandusky and perhaps shoot him on the spot, which is what some of this thread’s posters seem to feel he should have done, and that the fact he didn’t makes him just as bad as Sandusky. > > Seriously, reason has left the building in this thread. If it somehow makes you people feel all warm and fuzzy inside to throw Joe Paterno, Penn State and everyone associated with it under the bus, even after years of support, and consider them as evil as Sandusky himself - which some of you have claimed - then knock yourselves out. But trust me, there’s not a hair’s breadth of difference between the way you’re behaving and the way Nancy Grace does on her show, and that’s not a good thing. The people who are supposed to investigate a claim of rape are the police, not the Athletic Director of Penn State. The Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State police has explicitly stated that they should have been told, and he has said that while Paterno did what was required of him by law, there is a higher ethical obligation to report these things to **the police** even if you are not a mandatory reporter. I agree 100% with the Commissioner of Police. I’ll say this, I don’t find it particularly clever when a literal mountain of evidence is found about a person and you find one solitary sole moaning about “nothing is proven yet!” I don’t think a single person in this thread has said we shouldn’t give Sandusky a trial, and a trial is where all of his constitutional protections will apply fully. So it really is not a mob or a witch hunt mentality, no one here is calling for us to break into Sandusky’s house and lynch him, we’re content to let his legal process work itself out. But as a casual observer it’s also the case I’m not the judge hearing this case and I’m not on the jury that will try it, so it’s perfectly acceptable for me and everyone else to take the evidence **we have** and call Sandusky scum. Finally, I think most people agree that there is no way we can know 100% what Paterno thought or what he had been told. There is no way we can know 100% what Schultz and Curley heard or believed. However the disconnect is you think it is their role to ascertain the validity of these claims, I think that is where you will find strong disagreement. If I’m the AD or a member of the administration of PSU I will absolutely not take it upon myself to be the investigative professional in the case of an alleged act of child abuse. Whether McQueary told me it was anal rape, fondling, or something else, I don’t know. All I know is factually there has been a claim of inappropriate contact and that the AD should have reported it to police. Given Paterno’s importance at the university I also feel he had a responsibility to do something about this when it became obvious nothing was going to be done about it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/160 "2011-11-08T14:18:32Z")
I could forgive Paterno for telling the AD and then waiting a short while to see if things started happening. If a week or so goes by and there was no sign of a police investigation, then Paterno should have gone back to the AD and said “hey, dude, if you’re not going to report this to the police I will”. Instead, his attitude seems to be that he did the bare minimum required of him and that’s as far as he was obligated to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=9)