# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 90
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1781 "2011-12-22T00:05:51Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Non-sequiturs. You can’t take a few unrelated, piddling events occurring over the course of decades and from that, conclude that Paterno was wrong to keep quiet about a little boy being ass-raped by a middle-aged man in their showers. > > And what about all the people, prepubescent boys and adults alike, who _weren’t_ ass-raped in the showers on Paterno’s watch? Why the insistence by the media, and some posters on this board, to focus solely on the negative? And frankly, even if you have a few little boys being ass-raped on one side, you still have the guy helping win a \*lot \*of football games on the other side. The balance still tips in his favor. We should be throwing the guy a parade, not subjecting this saint among men to a modern-day witch hunt. Finally a voice of reason! It’s important to have some perspective here and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Considering that there are approximately 25 million children in the U.S. between the ages of 6-11, and only about 10 or so were raped due to the coaching legend’s negligence…those are some damn good odds. I hardly think the rape of a few disadvantaged kids is enough to outweigh his two national championships and six fiesta bowl wins. Get a grip people and quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Let he who \*hasn’t \*covered up a score of child rapes cast the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1782 "2011-12-22T00:38:33Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Non-sequiturs. You can’t take a few unrelated, piddling events occurring over the course of decades and from that, conclude that Paterno was wrong to keep quiet about a little boy being ass-raped by a middle-aged man in their showers. Well, my point is threefold. 1. **Starving Artist** and others have mentioned Joe Paterno’s integrity as if it’s self-evident. I want some examples so we can judge it for ourselves. 2. While we’re arguing over the most minute subtleties over what McQueary told Paterno and how reliable the reports of that conversation are, do they apply the same fine-toothed skepticism to tales of his good deeds? 3. **SA** has given Paterno almost sole credit for the rise of Penn State, but said it’s unfair to hold the top man to account when something goes wrong. I think that’s a double standard. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1783 "2011-12-22T00:44:16Z")
I think **Vinyl Turnip** ’s post was facetious. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1784 "2011-12-22T00:52:08Z")
I know, but I did want to expand a little on the issue of Paterno’s alleged integrity. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1785 "2011-12-22T11:54:16Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > That was probably moot after he “retired,” which he already had when he raped victim no. 2 as McQueary watched and Paterno did the bare minimum. The suspicion is he was forced out because of earlier “horseplay” in the shower, though he’s earlier said (and though he’s a liar, this was borne out by Paterno’s hubristic decision to cling to the head coach position well into his dotage) he quit out of a realization that Paterno would never willingly retire. Still, he was easily young enough, and had a strong enough record as a coach (he was the reason PSU was called “Linebacker U” for awhile) that he could have taken over another major college program right away - if he had wanted to \*and \*if he had thought he’d get hired. The circumstances point more strongly to a coverup, with Joe quietly, and probably vaguely, cautioning any other interested schools that there’d be a problem. So I do think we have circumstantial evidence of when Joe learned of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1786 "2011-12-22T12:11:18Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > And I’m not convinced that the University Police didn’t do their jobs. Here you would have the testimony of McQueary who saw “something of a sexual nature,” you would have Sandusky spinning it with a story, and have no complaining witness. You should read the fucking grand jury report. None of these people even tried to find out who the kid was! That’s how much fucking due diligence the “university police” did. You all suck, seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1787 "2011-12-22T12:12:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still, he was easily young enough, and had a strong enough record as a coach (he was the reason PSU was called “Linebacker U” for awhile) that he could have taken over another major college program right away - if he had wanted to \*and \*if he had thought he’d get hired. The circumstances point more strongly to a coverup, with Joe quietly, and probably vaguely, cautioning any other interested schools that there’d be a problem. > > So I do think we have circumstantial evidence of when Joe learned of the problem. Moving to a head coaching position in a new city would have required that he throw away all of structure he had created over the years that enabled him to groom and molest boys. He would have had to start over. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1788 "2011-12-22T14:09:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Leaving aside what Paterno’s history tells us about this incident, and even if there is no ambiguity about this incident, and it represents a failure by Paterno etc., the question is whether he deserves to have some slack cut for him by an institution to which he gave so much. Child rape is not a issue where it’s easy to cut someone slack. When you do, there’s going to be backlash, because it’s going to look like you’re minimizing the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1789 "2011-12-22T16:36:24Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > Yes, his football program helped Penn State grow. No doubt about it, he did some good things for the school and should be remembered for those things. I just don’t see how the school could possibly be expected to keep him in such a high level position now that the world knows he participated in a coverup of child sexual molestation. Trouble is, the world doesn’t know any such thing. Nor do you. And not only do you not know it, but there is no evidence he did, while evidence most certainlyl does exist that he reported the incident to the proper university officials. Nor did he whitewash or sugar coat what he was told. > [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > A university is about more than one guy - and that guy a coach. What about the players, who are certainly wishing they had chosen a different school about now? What about the students who don’t give a rat’s ass about football, who are going to hear child molestation comments anytime they admit where they go to school? Exactly! And if people had kept their wits about themselves rather than hysterically demanding that everyone is sight be shot, the university could have instituted policies to correct the situation (including direct reporting to the police when felony crime is observed) same as they do when other newly discovered on-campus crime occurs, and life could have gone on with Penn State continuing to be the highly thought of institution of higher learning it had become. > [@Robot Arm](#): > > If he “gave so much” to Penn State, he has also received quite a bit in return. Actually, that’s a rather small salary for a big time college football head coach. Plus few other college football coaches have done as much to grow their school as Paterno has. > [@Robot Arm](#): > > Despite being a public university, it took a court to force the release of that figure. So what? It probably would have taken a court order to release information about any other university employee’s salary too. I imagine the same holds true for other colleges too. Wikipedia also offers the following: > [@](#): > > Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham contacted Paterno in 1969 to see if Paterno (whom Canham respected and knew personally) would accept the vacant Michigan job. Paterno turned down the offer and Michigan hired Bo Schembechler. In 1972, Paterno was offered the head coaching position by the New England Patriots. He accepted their offer, but only three weeks later decided to back out of it. The Patriots hired Chuck Fairbanks of Oklahoma instead. I don’t know what you think turning down other coaching jobs proves vis-a-vis Paterno’s integrity, but “Pssst…it happens all the time and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.” > [@](#): > > In 1995, Paterno was forced to apologize for a profanity-laced tirade directed at Rutgers then-head coach Doug Graber at the conclusion of a nationally televised game.[8] He was also accused of “making light of sexual assault” in 2006 by the National Organization for Women which called for his resignation,[9] and was involved in a road rage incident in 2007.[10] He’s a friggin’ football coach! Do you really expect that because when we speak of his integrity we mean he doesn’t ever swear? NOW means nothing. They are primarily a political organization, as proved by their reaction to Bill Clinton’s long history of accosting women and cheating on his wife. Plus NOW has something negative to say about the attitudes of virtually everyone who grew up in the era Paterno grew up in. The road rage incident admittedly doesn’t look good, but without knowing more about it we really don’t know who serious the incident was, nor how egregious Paterno’s behavior was within the context of it. Still, nothin in your list goes to the overall character and integrity of the man. No one is perfect, and no one has said Paterno is. If we’re going to condemn the integrity of every person who ever cursed, said something that somebody somewhere took issue with, or inappropriately lost their temper, “integrity” would be listed in the dictionary as fiction. And speaking of Paterno in Wikipedia, I notice you neglected to include the following: > [@](#): > > In addition to his legacy as a coach, Paterno is highly regarded for his contributions to academic life at Penn State. After the announcement of his hiring in 1966, Paterno set out to conduct what he called a “Grand Experiment” in melding athletics and academics in the collegiate environment, an idea that he had learned during his years at Brown.[57] As a result, Penn State’s players have consistently demonstrated above-average academic success compared to Division I-A schools nationwide. According to the NCAA’s 2008 Graduation Rates Report, Penn State’s four-year Graduation Success Rate of 78% easily exceeds the 67% Division I average, second to only Northwestern among Big Ten institutions.[58] > > Paterno is also renowned for his charitable contributions to academics at Penn State. He and his wife Sue have contributed over $4 million towards various departments and colleges, including support for the Penn State All-Sports Museum, which opened in 2002, and the Pasquerilla Spiritual Center, which opened in 2003.[59] After helping raise over $13.5 million in funds for the 1997 expansion of Pattee Library, the University named the expansion Paterno Library in their honor.[60] It looks to me that Penn State’s student athletes and the university itself have benefitted enormously from both Joe Paterno’s insistence on academic performace from his players (an insistence that has no doubt harmed his chances of winning on the playing field from time to time, as talented players who hadn’t measured up academically would not have been allowed to play), and financially, especially when you consider the relatively modest salary Paterno has been content to work for. > [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > You can’t take a few unrelated, piddling events occurring over the course of decades and from that, conclude that Paterno was wrong to keep quiet about a little boy being ass-raped by a middle-aged man in their showers. This, flat out, is a lie! There’s no other way to say it. Paterno didn’t keep quiet; he didn’t minimize or sugar-coat what he was told, and he did so immediately. So, sorry, but you’re Nancy Graceing again, and thus are completely devoid of credibility. And integrity, for that matter. I’m sure the children of mine you alluded to upthread would find your witch hunt mentality and the lies you use to support it considerably more objectionable and disgusting than they would my fact-based attitude toward Joe Paterno. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still, he was easily young enough, and had a strong enough record as a coach (he was the reason PSU was called “Linebacker U” for awhile) that he could have taken over another major college program right away - if he had wanted to and if he had thought he’d get hired. The circumstances point more strongly to a coverup, with Joe quietly, and probably vaguely, cautioning any other interested schools that there’d be a problem. > > So I do think we have circumstantial evidence of when Joe learned of the problem. Well, you see, there’s the problem right there: you’re thinking! There is absolutely no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, to indicate either a cover up or that Paterno warned off other coaches out of knowledge of what Sandusky was allegedly doing. > [@Normal Phase](#): > > You should read the fucking grand jury report. None of these people even tried to find out who the kid was! That’s how much fucking due diligence the “university police” did. Assumes facts not in evidence. I.e.: 1. That it was possible to find out who the kid was in the first place. 2. That the local police could have located him if only they’d been told. 3. That Curley and Schultz could have determined who the kid was and deliberately chose not to. None of these assumptions are supported by fact. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Child rape is not a issue where it’s easy to cut someone slack. When you do, there’s going to be backlash, because it’s going to look like you’re minimizing the crime. Exactly! So to placate people who don’t know what they’re talking about, good men like Joe Paterno get fired. **jtgain** said it best when he said: > [@jtgain](#): > > The system that was in place failed this boy. And instead of admitting that the system was wrong and trying to put a different one in place, we have to find someone who’s head we can put on a platter. Paterno fits that bill. We can justify our own collective failure by tarnishing this man’s reputation. A large crime takes down a large man. The universe is in balance. > > A large crime goes unnoticed for years because of improper procedure, we can’t live with that, so we have to form the lynch mob. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1790 "2011-12-22T17:13:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Assumes facts not in evidence. I.e.: > > 1. That it was possible to find out who the kid was in the first place. No one TRIED. Had they tried, they may have found it impossible to find out who the kid was. But they didn’t try, so it could have been possible, even easy. NO ONE TRIED. > [@](#): > > 1. That the local police could have located him if only they’d been told. No one told the local police, so they didn’t get the opportunity to TRY. NO ONE TRIED. > [@](#): > > 1. That Curley and Schultz could have determined who the kid was and deliberately chose not to. > > None of these assumptions are supported by fact. Curley and Schultz DIDN’T TRY to find out who the kid was. Had they TRIED, they might have been able to. Here’s an equation for you: 2+(7.8/9)-67^2 = \_\_\_\_\_\_ If you fucking _try_ to do the math, you have a chance at arriving at the right answer. You have an even better chance if you are mildly competent at math. Or you can just give up, not even make an effort, never come up with the answer and then, years later, proudly announce to people on a message board that it’s an equation that doesn’t have an answer, or, anyways, likely never will have one. Jesus, you are dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1791 "2011-12-22T17:21:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Child rape is not a issue where it’s easy to cut someone slack. When you do, there’s going to be backlash, because it’s going to look like you’re minimizing the crime. Some backlash, undoubtedly. But very short term. Then it blows over, as people move on and find new things to get outraged about. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1792 "2011-12-22T17:34:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m sure the children of mine you alluded to upthread would find your witch hunt mentality and the lies you use to support it considerably more objectionable and disgusting than they would my fact-based attitude toward Joe Paterno. He knew that a little boy had possibly been raped and he didn’t notify the police. That’s not a lie, it’s a hard fact. The more strenuously you try to polish this turd, the more you foul yourself. As to what your kids find more disgusting, that’s between you and them. I hope they’ve acquired a sense of right and wrong from some other source. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1793 "2011-12-22T17:36:01Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > No one TRIED. Had they tried, they may have found it impossible to find out who the kid was. But they didn’t try, so it could have been possible, even easy. NO ONE TRIED. > > No one told the local police, so they didn’t get the opportunity to TRY. NO ONE TRIED. > > Curley and Schultz DIDN’T TRY to find out who the kid was. Had they TRIED, they might have been able to. If there was no way to know who the kid was other than for Sandusky to tell them…and they knew that…it would make sense that they didn’t try. People here are making assumptions that that video cameras and log books absolutely litter the campus and all anyone had to do was look at something to find out who the kid was. So far there’s no evidence any of that was so. None of the administration’s critics familiar with the campus has made any such claims, nor, so far as I know, have the police themselves. Still… THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PATERNO!!! Paterno immediately told them of the allegation, and that it concerned what appeared to be serious sex abuse of a child. Once he did that, the onus for whatever didn’t get done properly falls on Curley and Schultz. Further, I will state flat out my belief that had the police been notified and had they tried to find out who the kid was it still wouldn’t have made an iota of difference to the likes of you. You would still be screaming that the university and Joe Paterno covered up and enabled ten years of child abuse, and you’d be doing so without a scintilla of evidence, just like you’re doing now. All this crap about Paterno not calling the police is just an excuse to call for his head. In the absence of that excuse, another would have been found instead. This thread alone abounds with likely candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1794 "2011-12-22T17:43:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > All this crap about Paterno not calling the police is just an excuse to call for his head. You really think that? You think the SDMB in general has been biding its time for the moment that Paterno fucked up so we could destroy his fine Penn State traditions? You know, you’re right about something … this has nothing to do with Paterno. We’d have the same attitude if it were Coach Allowishus Abercrombie Anyman who helped cover up child molestation. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1795 "2011-12-22T17:43:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > He knew that a little boy had possibly been raped and he didn’t notify the police. That’s not a lie, it’s a hard fact. The more strenuously you try to polish this turd, the more you foul yourself. He did not know a boy had been raped. Period. This is neither a lie nor a hard fact. I could tell you a cow jumped over the moon. That wouldn’t mean you therefore knew it happened. Besides, what Paterno was told fell short of rape. It was vague and might have been anything, up to and including a misinterpretation of what was happening on McQueary’s part, as I’ve explained 1,267 times in this thread already. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > As to what your kids find more disgusting, that’s between you and them. I hope they’ve acquired a sense of right and wrong from some other source. At the very least they would have learned from me that moral outrage was not an acceptable excuse for lying. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1796 "2011-12-22T17:44:57Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You really think that? You think the SDMB in general has been biding its time for the moment that Paterno fucked up so we could destroy his fine Penn State traditions? No, and try as I might, I can’t think of a logical reason you would think so. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1797 "2011-12-22T18:06:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If there was no way to know who the kid was other than for Sandusky to tell them…and they knew that…it would make sense that they didn’t try. I think this is the single stupidest post of 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1798 "2011-12-22T18:10:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, and try as I might, I can’t think of a logical reason you would think so. Off hand it’s because you said this: “All this crap about Paterno not calling the police is just an excuse to call for his head.” That’s like saying, “all this crap about Ted Kennedy driving drunk is just an excuse to call for his head.” It’s not an excuse; it’s a reason. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1799 "2011-12-22T18:12:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If there was no way to know who the kid was other than for Sandusky to tell them…and they knew that…it would make sense that they didn’t try. No, that doesn’t make any fucking sense at all. The only way to know that there are no other sources of information _is to look for other sources of information_. Maybe they wouldn’t have found out who the kid was, fair enough, _but by trying, they could at least say they tried!_ > [@](#): > > People here are making assumptions that that video cameras and log books absolutely litter the campus and all anyone had to do was look at something to find out who the kid was. I’m assuming that a video camera or someone walking past the building or someone in the building may have seen, for a random example “a young boy, with Sandusky…the boy was wearing a green Nike jacket…brown hair…” and that that information could lead to figuring out who the kid was. Say, an employee at Second Mile saying " yeah, we have a brown haired kid who owns a green Nike jacket who comes here, his name is \_\_\_\_" In other words, I’m assuming that other sources of information would provide _additional information_. You do realize that this is how the police work, don’t you? They don’t take an unidentified murder victim and figure since they don’t have a driver’s license on them, and only the murderer would know who the victim was, let’s not fucking bother to investigate. _They try to find as much information as possible._ Of course, they can only do that, if they are informed of the crime. > [@](#): > > So far there’s no evidence any of that was so. None of the administration’s critics familiar with the campus has made any such claims, nor, so far as I know, have the police themselves. Still… Because no one looked for evidence, there’s no possible evidence that any evidence may have ever existed. Is that your argument? That’s dumb, and you know it. > [@](#): > > THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PATERNO!!! It does have to do with _my opinion_ of Paterno because I feel that, despite the language in the Mandatory Reporter law, Paterno _should have called the cops_ based on the information he had. I feel he - by his own words - had enough information to act, and should have, but he didn’t, and that’s reprehensible. So, yeah, it has to do with Paterno. > [@](#): > > Paterno immediately told them of the allegation, and that it concerned what appeared to be serious sex abuse of a child. Once he did that, the onus for whatever didn’t get done properly falls on Curley and Schultz. Yeah, Curley and Shultz are just as reprehensible. They fall in for the same blame as Paterno…more, in fact, since one of them was the head of the campus police and he didn’t ask them to do a _proper_ investigation. That doesn’t mean that the amount of responsibility that Paterno had is reduced to zero. > [@](#): > > Further, I will state flat out my belief that had the police been notified and had they tried to find out who the kid was it still wouldn’t have made an iota of difference to the likes of you. You would still be screaming that the university and Joe Paterno covered up and enabled ten years of child abuse, and you’d be doing so without a scintilla of evidence, just like you’re doing now. All this crap about Paterno not calling the police is just an excuse to call for his head. In the absence of that excuse, another would have been found instead. This thread alone abounds with likely candidates. Had the police been notified and they had tried to find out who the kid was…whether or not they succeeded in that effort… there would not be accusations of a nearly 10-year-old cover-up. An investigation that goes nowhere isn’t a cover-up. So, no, I wouldn’t be as mad about it. Until this thread, I didn’t even know who the fuck Joe Paterno was. I had never heard of a Nittany Lion, and didn’t give a fuck about PSU. I’m not on some sort of anti-Paterno witch hunt. I read the information provided - some of it in _Paterno’s own words_- and I reached a conclusion based upon that. Paterno failed, morally. Other people did too. But Paterno failed. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1800 "2011-12-22T18:16:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PATERNO!!! Morally, I believe it does. From interviews with Penn State players, even though Sandusky was no longer a coach he was still very visible around campus and the football team. He was still running overnight football camps at Penn State campuses for kids as young as 9. These camps advertised his Penn State connection and used other Penn State related instructors. He was still finding victims from the Second Mile camps held at Penn State. He was still bringing his victims to Penn State football practices. He was still using Second Mile as a cover, and Joe Paterno is also heavily involved in Second Mile, and Penn State players have said they felt roped in to creating the “respectable face” that Sandusky hid behind. This is not a legal issue, but a moral one. There is no moral way for Joe Paterno to stand by and let this happen. If he thought an adult doing sexual acts to a child while alone in a locker room at night was innocent, then morally he needed to get clarification (although I think your argument on this point is absurd in the first place). McQueary and Sandusky were both around all the time. He could have called the cops. He could have followed up. Sandusky had his keys to the showers taken away… Paterno could have wondered why he was still able to have so much other Penn State access. Just imagine how awkward it must have been to have Sandusky always around the team, always having camps for little kids at Penn State, always using his Penn State reputation to advertise himself. Paterno must have been cursing his misfortune while unable to bring himself to speak up. I suspect Paterno knows it was a moral test, and he failed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=89) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=91)