# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 91
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1801 "2011-12-22T18:16:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > He did not know a boy had been raped. Period. This is neither a lie nor a hard fact. I could tell you a cow jumped over the moon. That wouldn’t mean you therefore knew it happened. Besides, what Paterno was told fell short of rape. It was vague and might have been anything, up to and including a misinterpretation of what was happening on McQueary’s part, as I’ve explained 1,267 times in this thread already. > > At the very least they would have learned from me that moral outrage was not an acceptable excuse for lying. You have posted that lie 1267 times, that much is true. There was **nothing** vague (YOU are the only moral cretin who has used that word) or inconsistent in the sworn testimony of McQueary (who said he told Paterno of “some type of intercourse, extreme sexual contact”) and Paterno (who swore that he was told of “sexual contact”). It might NOT have been “anything.” You fucking suck, you really do. Your lies are obvious, transparent, and despicable, and I’d wager, so are you. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1802 "2011-12-22T18:29:11Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > I’m assuming that a video camera or someone walking past the building or someone in the building may have seen, for a random example “a young boy, with Sandusky…the boy was wearing a green Nike jacket…brown hair…” and that that information could lead to figuring out who the kid was. Say, an employee at Second Mile saying " yeah, we have a brown haired kid who owns a green Nike jacket who comes here, his name is \_\_\_\_" > > In other words, I’m assuming that other sources of information would provide _additional information_. You do realize that this is how the police work, don’t you? They don’t take an unidentified murder victim and figure since they don’t have a driver’s license on them, and only the murderer would know who the victim was, let’s not fucking bother to investigate. One of the liars upthread excused Paterno on the grounds that “even to this day no one has identified the kid from the shower incident, so there was no point in Paterno reporting it to the police as they obviously wouldn’t have been able to find him then if they can’t find him now.” You and others have amply demonstrated the many ways in which that’s moronic fallacy. I just wanted to point out that, contrary to the liars, the initial premise is not true – when prosecutors and police finally got involved and (as you say) did their job, no surprise, they found all eight victims, including victim no. 2 from the shower, and had them available to testify. > **[All Eight of Jerry Sandusky's Alleged Victims Will Testify Against Him](https://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-scandal-victims-testify-jerry-sandusky/story?id=15085783)** > > All eight alleged victims in the Jerry Sandusky child molestation case will testify against the former Penn State football coach in court next week, according to people close to the case. Oh, the retard also says Paterno’s hands were tied because Sandusky was the only person he could have asked, and obviously he knew Sandusky would not tell him the identity of the kid. Which is horseshit. Sandusky would not (IRL, a place I know the retard doesn’t inhabit) have been able to just deny that he’d been in the showers or had a kid with him – he could not have said “No, McQ. made that up.” As the facts show, when confronted, he would have had to (and in other cases did) admit the basic facts (that he was showering with a kid), but prevaricate about the details “No, Mike got it all wrong, we were just wrestling and horsing around.” Moral Joe (counterfactual Joe) would then have said, well, what kid was it, and Sandusky could not well hold out on the kid’s name (or, Joe could go to Second Mile and find out what kid Sandusky had checked out for the evening, or . . .), and would have asked the kid, “Listen, was it really just horsing around, or did something bad happen in that shower?” We’re all just feeding the troll. I used to think trolling didn’t matter, but retards like this **SA** really are toxic. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1803 "2011-12-22T18:35:12Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think this is the single stupidest post of 2011. You call a cop. You say hey, “I saw a car stolen while I was shopping downtown.” They “How do you know?” You say, “Well, the way they took it was suspicious.” They say "Okay, what kind of car was it? You say “Well, I don’t know. It was yellow and appeared to be ten years old.” They say “Do you know who owns it?” You say “No.” They say, “Did you get a tag number?” You say “No.” They say “Thanks. We’ll look into it.” Later, you find out they didn’t investigate it all. And so you, apparently feeling that having nothing to go on, they should have redoubled their efforts, shriek to the heavens that they were derelict in their duty. The world :rolleyes:. Same thing here. There’s no real description of the boy. No one has made a complaint saying a child had been abused in the shower that night. There is no evidence that video cameras or anything else would have identified him. And Sandusky, knowing it’s McQueary’s word against his, most likely denies everything. You know what investigators do in a case like that? Nothing! Because that’s all they can do unless and until they have more to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1804 "2011-12-22T18:37:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Off hand it’s because you said this: “All this crap about Paterno not calling the police is just an excuse to call for his head.” > > That’s like saying, “all this crap about Ted Kennedy driving drunk is just an excuse to call for his head.” > > It’s not an excuse; it’s a reason. No, Sandusky would be the equivalent to Ted Kennedy in this analogy. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1805 "2011-12-22T18:40:08Z")
Yeah, I don’t know why I keep bothering. Regardless of the opinion on Paterno, I just get so annoyed at statements that amount to “we didn’t try…so obviously it’s impossible!” ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1806 "2011-12-22T18:45:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You call a cop. You say hey, “I saw a car stolen while I was shopping downtown.” They “How do you know?” You say, “Well, the way they took it was suspicious.” They say "Okay, what kind of car was it? You say “Well, I don’t know. It was yellow and appeared to be ten years old.” They say “Do you know who owns it?” You say “No.” They say, “Did you get a tag number?” You say “No.” They say “Thanks. We’ll look into it.” > > Later, you find out they didn’t investigate it all. And so you, apparently feeling that having nothing to go on, they should have redoubled their efforts, shriek to the heavens that they were derelict in their duty. > > The world :rolleyes:. > > Same thing here. There’s no real description of the boy. No one has made a complaint saying a child had been abused in the shower that night. There is no evidence that video cameras or anything else would have identified him. And Sandusky, knowing it’s McQueary’s word against his, most likely denies everything. > > You know what investigators do in a case like that? Nothing! Because that’s all they can do unless and until they have more to go on. You’re a congenital liar but . . . there is no affirmative testimony that McQueary could not describe/identify the kid, because (of course, you moron) his height, his ethnicity, the color of his har (all of which it is highly possible McQueary could have identified) were completely irrelevant to establishing probable cause for indictment, which was the only purpose of the GJ summary of the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1807 "2011-12-22T18:52:23Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I just wanted to point out that, contrary to the liars, the initial premise is not true – when prosecutors and police finally got involved and (as you say) did their job, no surprise, they found all eight victims, including victim no. 2 from the shower, and had them available to testify. > > [All Eight of Jerry Sandusky's Alleged Victims Will Testify Against Him - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-scandal-victims-testify-jerry-sandusky/story?id=15085783) I believe this was an error by ABC, and subsequent versions of that story said six victims to testify. See e.g.: [StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](http://www.examiner.com/top-news-in-san-francisco/sf-news-6-sandusky-accusers-will-testify-next-week-photos) > [@](#): > > Oh, the retard also says Paterno’s hands were tied because Sandusky was the only person he could have asked, and obviously he knew Sandusky would not tell him the identity of the kid. Which is horseshit. Sandusky would not (IRL, a place I know the retard doesn’t inhabit) have been able to just deny that he’d been in the showers or had a kid with him – he could not have said “No, McQ. made that up.” As the facts show, when confronted, he would have had to (and in other cases did) admit the basic facts (that he was showering with a kid), but prevaricate about the details “No, Mike got it all wrong, we were just wrestling and horsing around.” Moral Joe (counterfactual Joe) would then have said, well, what kid was it, and Sandusky could not well hold out on the kid’s name (or, Joe could go to Second Mile and find out what kid Sandusky had checked out for the evening, or . . .), and would have asked the kid, “Listen, was it really just horsing around, or did something bad happen in that shower?” A bit long-winded and rhetorical, but correct. Sandusky couldn’t have refrained from identifying the kid, or PSU would have come down on him a lot harder. (FWIW, Sandusky’s lawyer claims that Sandusky did identify the kid to PSU at the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1808 "2011-12-22T18:54:10Z")
Time for the second stupidest post of 2011 > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Same thing here. There’s no real description of the boy. No one has made a complaint saying a child had been abused in the shower that night. There is no evidence that video cameras or anything else would have identified him. And Sandusky, knowing it’s McQueary’s word against his, most likely denies everything. > > You know what investigators do in a case like that? Nothing! Because that’s all they can do unless and until they have more to go on. Let me dumb this down for you. Take your time, I used some big 3 syllable words. Sandusky rape kid in Penn State locker room Sandusky work with Second Mile charity Second Mile charity run event at Penn State day of rape Second Mile charity have list of kids for event Look at list - read names - talk to kids Second Mile charity have list of workers for event Look at list - talk to workers Penn State have list of people at event Look at list - talk to people Use pencil to write down statements Give list of statements to smart person ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1809 "2011-12-22T18:57:04Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Morally, I believe it does. > > From interviews with Penn State players, even though Sandusky was no longer a coach he was still very visible around campus and the football team. He was still running overnight football camps at Penn State campuses for kids as young as 9. These camps advertised his Penn State connection and used other Penn State related instructors. He was still finding victims from the Second Mile camps held at Penn State. He was still bringing his victims to Penn State football practices. He was still using Second Mile as a cover, and Joe Paterno is also heavily involved in Second Mile, and Penn State players have said they felt roped in to creating the “respectable face” that Sandusky hid behind. > > This is not a legal issue, but a moral one. There is no moral way for Joe Paterno to stand by and let this happen. If he thought an adult doing sexual acts to a child while alone in a locker room at night was innocent, then morally he needed to get clarification (although I think your argument on this point is absurd in the first place). McQueary and Sandusky were both around all the time. He could have called the cops. He could have followed up. Sandusky had his keys to the showers taken away… Paterno could have wondered why he was still able to have so much other Penn State access. > > Just imagine how awkward it must have been to have Sandusky always around the team, always having camps for little kids at Penn State, always using his Penn State reputation to advertise himself. Paterno must have been cursing his misfortune while unable to bring himself to speak up. I suspect Paterno knows it was a moral test, and he failed. Can you not see that your position on this is absolutely filled with supposition? Clearly the university, the players, the people at Second Mile, the people manning the camps, et al., were unaware of what Sandusky was allegedly doing at the time. There is absolutely no evidence that Paterno deliberately stood by and allowed Sandusky to abuse children, but plenty of reason to think, given the various accusations which had come to nothing, that whatever Sandusky had been doing was not serious enough to warrant legal action. People these days are far too quick to see evil intent where none exists. As a grown man these days you can’t even look smilingly and amusedly at a little kid in a place as big as a friggin’ Walmart people looking at you like a pedophile. Kids are being raised to be fearful of men, and men are falling under suspicion for all sorts of bogus reasons. Frankly, were I in Paterno’s shoes and hearing all the good things I’d been hearing about the work Sandusky was doing with underprivileged kids and his charity and so forth, I’d be more than a little reluctant to take vague rumors of Sandusky’s impropriety with children all that seriously and would probably mark it down to people seeing things or misiinterpreting things that so far hadn’t been substantiated in any significant way. Then, once I heard something that seemed credible from an assistant I trusted and who seemed upset over what he’d seen, I’d call the university officials who presumably had been conducting the other inquiries into Sandusky’s behavor, and report what I’d heard. Which of course is exactly what Paterno did! So again, I’m not seeing impropriety on Paterno’s part. These claims that he stood by and allowed the abuse to happen, that he covered up for Sandusky, that he did the bare minimum by folllowing the law, are just so much supposition. There’s not a shred of evidence to support any of it. And people in this country should not be considered guilty of behavior that exists only in the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1810 "2011-12-22T18:59:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Assumes facts not in evidence. I.e.: > > 1. That it was possible to find out who the kid was in the first place. > > 2. That the local police could have located him if only they’d been told. > > 3. That Curley and Schultz could have determined who the kid was and deliberately chose not to. > > None of these assumptions are supported by fact. You’re a fucking idiot as well as beyond misguided and into the realm of perversity when it comes to your defense of everyone who failed these kids. Ask Sandusky who the kid was. If he refuses, take it from there. The grand jury report says they didn’t even do that. Assumptions, my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1811 "2011-12-22T19:00:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You call a cop. You say hey, “I saw a car stolen while I was shopping downtown.” They “How do you know?” You say, “Well, the way they took it was suspicious.” They say "Okay, what kind of car was it? You say “Well, I don’t know. It was yellow and appeared to be ten years old.” They say “Do you know who owns it?” You say “No.” They say, “Did you get a tag number?” You say “No.” They say “Thanks. We’ll look into it.” > > Later, you find out they didn’t investigate it all. And so you, apparently feeling that having nothing to go on, they should have redoubled their efforts, shriek to the heavens that they were derelict in their duty. > > The world :rolleyes:. > > Same thing here. There’s no real description of the boy. No one has made a complaint saying a child had been abused in the shower that night. There is no evidence that video cameras or anything else would have identified him. And Sandusky, knowing it’s McQueary’s word against his, most likely denies everything. > > You know what investigators do in a case like that? Nothing! Because that’s all they can do unless and until they have more to go on. OK, you’ve gone off the deep end and are engaged in self-parody. In your example, even though you seem to suggest that proprty theft and child rape should get equal consideration…THE COPS WERE CALLED. If that was done in this case, several Penn State officals would still have jobs and not be facing charges. And you are out of your freaking mind if you believe, even for a moment, that investigators would do nothing. They would have had something to go on. They would have had an _eye freaking witness_. They would have had the name of alleged perpatrator. They might not be able to prosecute, but they would do plenty, including **questioning Sandusky**. You know how I know this? Because they are now investigating Sandusky and preparing a deep, dark hole to stick him in. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1812 "2011-12-22T19:05:38Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > As the facts show, when confronted, [Sandusky] would have had to (and in other cases did) admit the basic facts (that he was showering with a kid), but prevaricate about the details “No, Mike got it all wrong, we were just wrestling and horsing around.” No, he wouldn’t. He might’ve, but he wouldn’t have had to at all. He could very easily have answered “I don’t know what Mike saw, or thought he saw, but I wasn’t in the shower with any kid last night.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1813 "2011-12-22T19:23:50Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Time for the second stupidest post of 2011Let me dumb this down for you. Take your time, I used some big 3 syllable words. > > Sandusky rape kid in Penn State locker room > > Sandusky work with Second Mile charity > > Second Mile charity run event at Penn State day of rape > > Second Mile charity have list of kids for event > > Look at list - read names - talk to kids > > Second Mile charity have list of workers for event > > Look at list - talk to workers > > Penn State have list of people at event > > Look at list - talk to people > > Use pencil to write down statements > > Give list of statements to smart person I already asked upthread if the authorities are expected to have to run around to every school and every kid in town asking if Sandusky had screwed them in the shower that night, and I’m not seeing as how you wouldn’t expect them to hit every school in town if checking out Second Mile didn’t turn up a victim. And what if Sandusky were innocent? You’d have cops or administrators running all around town asking about possible pedophilic behavior on Sandusky’s part. Sooner or later parents and the media get hold of it, and before long Sandusky’s ruined, his charity is ruined, and Paterno and Penn State themselves come under suspicion. Plus abused kids get traumatized further by having other people become aware of what’s happened to them, which conducting the investigation in the public way you describe would almost certainly do. Kids aren’t stupid and it wouldn’t take long for them to hear or figure out who the kid in the shower was that night, and they’d know what happened to him once charges were filed and the allegations became a matter of public record. So no, I don’t think the police would have run around inquiring of every kid in town as you describe…and for good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1814 "2011-12-22T19:32:14Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You’re a fucking idiot as well as beyond misguided and into the realm of perversity when it comes to your defense of everyone who failed these kids. Ask Sandusky who the kid was. If he refuses, take it from there. The grand jury report says they didn’t even do that. Assumptions, my ass. Assumptions litter that entire post. I’m not an idiot, nor am I misguided, nor am I perverse, nor am I defending everyone who failed these kids, nor can it be assumed that anything at all would come of "taking it from there - which a pretty big jump of faith all on its own. What I am doing iis defending Paterno from the hysterical conclusion-jumping that has gone on in this thread and describing in real world terms the obstacles that investigators run into when they lack evidence to proceed. You’ve not heard me utter a word in defense of Sandusky as it relates to any crimes he committed, nor have you heard me defend Curley or Schultz for lying to the Grand Jury. Your problem is that you don’t want the facts to come into play here at all, you just want heads to roll…and anyone who says “Not so fast” instantly becomes a pedophile enabler or worse simply for not jumping on your bandwagon of vengeance. I have no particular problem with vegeance myself, but I do think it should be applied only when the miscreant is provably guilty, and neither Paterno nor Curley nor Shultz have been remotely proven to be guilty of the behavior you and most of the other posters here have been accusing them of. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1815 "2011-12-22T19:36:08Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > OK, you’ve gone off the deep end and are engaged in self-parody. > > In your example, even though you seem to suggest that proprty theft and child rape should get equal consideration…THE COPS WERE CALLED. Oh, please. :rolleyes: Of course the cops were called. Perhaps I should have set the scene on campus where the campus police would be called. The point was that without anything specific to go on, the authorities’ hands are tied. And you perfectly well know that. > [@spooje](#): > > And you are out of your freaking mind if you believe, even for a moment, that investigators would do nothing. They would have had something to go on. They would have had an _eye freaking witness_. They would have had the name of alleged perpatrator. They might not be able to prosecute, but they would do plenty, including **questioning Sandusky**. > > You know how I know this? Because they are now investigating Sandusky and preparing a deep, dark hole to stick him in. And yet, somehow, after all this brouhaha, the victim still hasn’t been identified. Having an eye witness is meaningless if that’s all you have. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1816 "2011-12-22T19:44:44Z")
I love how at this point, you are basically defending Sandusky. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1817 "2011-12-22T19:50:44Z")
I love how at this point you’re being utterly ridicuous. What I’m defending is due process. And people like youi are the reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1818 "2011-12-22T19:54:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What I’m defending is due process. You’re not a lawyer. Stop playing as though you were. Due process applies in criminal prosecutions. Only. Which never got a chance to be brought here. Because an amoral or immoral person (your boyfriend Paterno) failed the moral test of calling the cops when told of child rape. Moral tests are not subject to “due process,” what kind of idiot thinks they are? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1819 "2011-12-22T19:55:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I already asked upthread if the authorities are expected to have to run around to every school and every kid in town asking if Sandusky had screwed them in the shower that night, and I’m not seeing as how you wouldn’t expect them to hit every school in town if checking out Second Mile didn’t turn up a victim. Surprisingly enough, you don’t. What you DO is conduct a thorough investigation, starting with the accuser, the accused, and people known, or suspected, to have been in the general area, or known to have been involved with an event that the victim could have been associated with. In police detective lingo, I believe they call that “working”. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/1820 "2011-12-22T19:59:29Z")
You can defend Paterno all you like…it’s a question of morality, not one of legality, and while I feel that a moral code that absolves Paterno is abhorrent, you are entitled to it (as long as it doesn’t break any laws). But you are basically saying that there was no point investigating _at all_ because Sandusky would have lied to cover his ass. You are so afraid of the consequences of a false accusation that you are advocating that NO accusation, no matter how credible, be investigated. McQueary is about as credible a witness as you can find - someone who was friendly with Sandusky, someone who knew the charity, someone who knew the campus and locker room, someone who knew what locker room culture and what sorts of behaviour happen there. He saw something that horrified him. He should have called the cops. But you are now to the point of arguing that even if he (or Paterno) had done so, there was no point because it may have started rumours and Sandusky would have lied and there might not have been any other evidence so no one should be bothered to look for it. That is ridiculous, and you know it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=90) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=92)