# It's time to stop bitching about SCOTUS decisions that expand rights **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694 "2017-12-17T03:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/21 "2017-12-17T10:10:45Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Permitting unlimited, unrestricted campaign contributions does not fall under that category, however. All it does in practice is grant rights to a tiny, tiny minority, at the expense of a right for everyone else - the voting franchise. It doesn’t matter if 99.9% of the people vote one way or hold one opinion, in a democracy - if only one individual or handful of individuals’ opinion results in a politician staying in office or being booted out. The problem with that argument is that it’s also an argument for limiting what the media can say about candidates and issues. It doesn’t make any sense to have a system where a few media companies can broadcast 24/7 for or against candidates, while worrying about one guy running 30 second ads. Now in Citizens United, the issue was corporate donations. While the court was divided on that issue, the court is 9-0 united on individual donations. There are no limits on individual independent advocacy ,nor can there be. Once you can limit individual paid advocacy, you can limit freedom of the press. Technically, that IS limiting freedom of the press. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/22 "2017-12-17T14:24:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So exactly when WOULD you favor religious freedom over a law? Never. Religious freedoms must never supersede laws of a just society. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/23 "2017-12-17T14:30:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > it’s relgiious freedom Quetzalcoatl needs hearts badly. I assume you’re willing to put yours where your mouth is…? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/24 "2017-12-17T14:31:27Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > So, where is it? > > Buying a cake is not gay marriage. > > The only participants in a gay marriage are the couple, the state, and (if necessary) the officiant; the couple obviously agrees with it, the state may not legitimately disagree with it, and I do not know of any attempts to force private officiants to marry same-sex couples. You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. Back in the early days, they claimed that all they wanted was for official persecution to stop. Then during the time of Lawrence v. Texas, they claimed that all they wanted was to be left alone in the bedroom. A few years later, they claimed that all they wanted was for the government to officially recognize their status in **some** way, whether by civil unions or some other form of recognition. Then in Oberfefell v. Hodges, they claimed that all they wanted was the right to marry. Now they’re claiming that all they want is the right to force everybody in the wedding industry to support them. Sooner or later, (probably sooner) they’re going to start clamoring for the “right” to force any member of the clergy to participate in gay weddings, regardless of the minister’s stance on the issue. Anybody who feels that this is an absurd claim has not been paying attention to history. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/25 "2017-12-17T14:35:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Were there people with sincere religious beliefs who objected to racial mixing? Were any cases brought to the court system based on religious objections? Yeparoonie! One example: From the original misceganation conviction that ultimately led to _[Loving v Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia)_, where this “religious liberty” argument was deservedly tossed out on its ass: > [@](#): > > Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with His arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/26 "2017-12-17T14:37:16Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. > > Back in the early days, they claimed that all they wanted was for official persecution to stop. Then during the time of Lawrence v. Texas, they claimed that all they wanted was to be left alone in the bedroom. A few years later, they claimed that all they wanted was for the government to officially recognize their status in **some** way, whether by civil unions or some other form of recognition. Then in Oberfefell v. Hodges, they claimed that all they wanted was the right to marry. Now they’re claiming that all they want is the right to force everybody in the wedding industry to support them. > > Sooner or later, (probably sooner) they’re going to start clamoring for the “right” to force any member of the clergy to participate in gay weddings, regardless of the minister’s stance on the issue. Anybody who feels that this is an absurd claim has not been paying attention to history. And as soon as they achieve that, they’ll be insisting that heterosexuals must have gay sex with them! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/27 "2017-12-17T14:37:49Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > all they wanted was for official persecution to stop I understood this statement the first time; it was not necessary to repeat it several more times in different wordings. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/28 "2017-12-17T14:37:55Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. You’re an evil person and I hope people like you become true pariahs in society. There should be no place for people like you in society. And these cases are just the death rattle of the homophobes, looking for one last way to show their spite before they die off. You _lost_, despite the efforts of people like you to make so many people miserable, and I hope it pisses you off until your last day. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/29 "2017-12-17T14:40:24Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. > > Back in the early days, they claimed that all they wanted was for official persecution to stop. Then during the time of Lawrence v. Texas, they claimed that all they wanted was to be left alone in the bedroom. A few years later, they claimed that all they wanted was for the government to officially recognize their status in **some** way, whether by civil unions or some other form of recognition. Then in Oberfefell v. Hodges, they claimed that all they wanted was the right to marry. Now they’re claiming that all they want is the right to force everybody in the wedding industry to support them. > > Sooner or later, (probably sooner) they’re going to start clamoring for the “right” to force any member of the clergy to participate in gay weddings, regardless of the minister’s stance on the issue. Anybody who feels that this is an absurd claim has not been paying attention to history. If we don’t draw the line now, some day gay people will have all the same rights normal people have. That’s equality! Are we, as a nation, prepared for that? There will be gay people, out there among us, acting like they have a right to be here. Walking on our straight streets with their gay feet, eating our straight food with their gay mouths, breathing our straight air into their gay lungs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/30 "2017-12-17T14:41:32Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. Sweeping statements like this are both factually wrong and morally wrong. Shame on you for spreading bigoted bullshit about millions of strangers whom you’ve never met, and have no idea what they actually think and believe. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/31 "2017-12-17T14:42:23Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. Interesting. Are there other groups that always lie in this way, or is just homosexuals? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/32 "2017-12-17T14:48:00Z")
Religious freedom is the right to not be singled out for special treatment. It’s _not_ a right to religious separatism. The RFRA model for religious freedom was a mistake, and now it’s infecting our understanding of the First Amendment too. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/33 "2017-12-17T14:58:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I partly agree with OP. Same here. I’ve always found it difficult to appreciate the (typically) right-wing angst over the Supreme Court “inventing” rights (such as a right to privacy). Where it gets tricky is the question of rights that infringe on other people’s activities (as opposed to offending their moral/religious beliefs). ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/34 "2017-12-17T15:04:06Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Yeparoonie! > > One example: From the original misceganation conviction that ultimately led to _[Loving v Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia)_, where this “religious liberty” argument was deservedly tossed out on its ass: Yeah, that’s a pretty basic part of the history of miscegenation laws in the USA. There have always been white churches that explicitly or implicitly pushed white supremacy. Bob Jones University prohibited interracial dating until _2000_, and the Supreme Court upheld the removal of its tax exemption for that reason in 1983 (only William Rehnquist, a former segregationist, dissented). Perhaps that will be the next to fall? Maybe the [segregation academies](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/in-southern-towns-segregation-academies-are-still-going-strong/266207/) across the South will push back when the IRS next sniffs around. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/35 "2017-12-17T15:45:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 1. Despite the hue and cry, the effects of these rulings have been extremely small or nonexistent for the class that didn’t directly benefit. Heller hasn’t increased gun crime. Corporate influence has not risen in politics, if anything the bases have more influence now than in the past. Women are not suffering from lack of access to birth control because a few companies are exempt from the mandate. Not even at the companies in question. And gays will continue to have no challenges getting people to help them with their weddings. Oh, really? Did you miss the increase in mass shootings? Did you miss the new tax law that gives corporations huge breaks because they are big donors? Have you missed the attack on women’s health and Planned Parenthood, that actually does deprive women of their ability to get healthcare? Did you miss the attempts to repeal ObamaCare and to now use the new tax bill to underfund it? Not that any of this justifies taking away civil rights from gay people. The same civil rights we fought in the 1960s for others, and you want to undermine that by claiming that religious freedom allows them to discriminate. Nevermind that this has already been undone. Damn it, **adaher**. Not too long ago I defended you as a decent guy. Now you are choosing to twist everything to defend bigotry. You’re acting just as bad as **Shagnasty** or **Flyer** or Starving Artist. What the fuck, man? Civil rights are a big deal, and you are saying it’s okay if they get taken away. And, again, Christianity does not say it’s wrong to serve sinners. So his religious beliefs on this matter are fake. At least the miscegination people had some Scripture to back it up. There is nothing in the Bible against gay marriage, let alone saying you can’t serve them. As a Christian myself I honestly believe this liar will go to hell when he dies if he doens’t repent. Same as **Flyer** here. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/36 "2017-12-17T15:59:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sweeping statements like this are both factually wrong and morally wrong. Shame on you for spreading bigoted bullshit about millions of strangers whom you’ve never met, and have no idea what they actually think and believe. Why even bother? Flyer is one these guys who saw some hot dude on TV, got his first non-Viagra induced stiffy in decades and decided to punish everyone else for it. Shitheads like that are beyond hope. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/37 "2017-12-17T16:19:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You have a narrow view on what rights are. Telling a bigot he can deny services to gay people is an advance for the rights of bigots - and a reduction for the rights of gay people. Conservatives love to expand the rights of people whose views they agree with. Here’s the issue, and it’s one that makes me glad I’m not on SCOTUS and have to decide this. The Constitution very clearly states this in the 1st Amendment: > [@](#): > > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof… The court pretty much has to come down on the baker’s side. It just can’t get around the 1st Amendment. If it doesn’t, then it will, effectively, have overturned the 1st Amendment and that is completely unacceptable. You all know I’m not a big fan of religion. But the law is what it is. IMNSHO, the gay couple should have just written the baker off as a religious asshole and gone down the street to his competition, as well as putting the word out that the baker is a religious asshole and asking people to boycott him. Dollars speak louder than lawsuits in a situation like this. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/38 "2017-12-17T16:31:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We have a culture of liberty here… I wonder how long it will be before “liberty” will be on the list of banned words. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/39 "2017-12-17T16:50:03Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You’re forgetting something: homosexuals **ALWAYS** lie about how much they want from government and from society. > > Back in the early days, they claimed that all they wanted was for official persecution to stop. Then during the time of Lawrence v. Texas, they claimed that all they wanted was to be left alone in the bedroom. A few years later, they claimed that all they wanted was for the government to officially recognize their status in **some** way, whether by civil unions or some other form of recognition. Then in Oberfefell v. Hodges, they claimed that all they wanted was the right to marry. Now they’re claiming that all they want is the right to force everybody in the wedding industry to support them. > > Sooner or later, (probably sooner) they’re going to start clamoring for the “right” to force any member of the clergy to participate in gay weddings, regardless of the minister’s stance on the issue. Anybody who feels that this is an absurd claim has not been paying attention to history. No, you fatuous fucking moron, we’ve always wanted full rights. It bigoted creeps like you who, when we make progress on one front, find a way to fuck with us on a different front that keeps dragging this out. We thought we’d finally settled this bullshit when we got enough decent American to turn their backs on the hateful lies you miserable god-botherers spread about us on the regular, and you assholes turn around on us and start this cake bullshit, and then act like _you_ useless fucks are the victims when we try to defend ourselves against yet anouther attack from the Bible squad. Sorry, fucko. We.re not going to agree to a minimum level of discrimination you shits get to practice against us. Go lock yourself in a closet. We’re sick of coddling your whiny, self-entitled asses, listening to your petty, irrational complaints, and putting up with your endless parades of slurs and slanders. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/40 "2017-12-17T16:56:01Z")
_slow clap_ for Miller. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694.md?page=3)