# It's time to stop bitching about SCOTUS decisions that expand rights **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694 "2017-12-17T03:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/121 "2017-12-27T01:57:28Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > {…} Please stop talking about pre-made cakes. “Please stop talking.” would be even better. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/122 "2017-12-27T02:22:47Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Those reports, if they exist anywhere outside you’re imagination, are not true. > > He doesn’t just have pre-made cakes laying around in case someone wanders into his store and wants to buy a wedding cake on the spot. At no point was he willing to sell them a pre-made cake. There were no pre-made cakes sell. Please stop talking about pre-made cakes. He did say would have sold them pre-made items, and most storefront bakeries do have pre-made cakes and other items that you can just walk in and buy. But they aren’t anything anyone would call a “wedding cake” and people who keep saying he would have sold them a pre-made cake either don’t understand what a wedding cake is or are intentionally trying to make the issue that he wouldn’t sell them a “cake” rather than that he wouldn’t sell them a “wedding cake”. He may have been wiling to sell them a pre-made, 8 inch round strawberry shortcake even if he knew they were gay ( which he probably wouldn’t know if that was the sort of cake they were buying) - but that’s not a “wedding cake”. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/123 "2017-12-27T02:29:19Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > He did say would have sold them pre-made items, and most storefront bakeries do have pre-made cakes and other items that you can just walk in and buy. It’s not a store front bakery and there are no pre-made items much less pre-made wedding cakes. It’s about two miles from my house. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/124 "2017-12-27T02:35:38Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Those reports, if they exist anywhere outside you’re imagination, are not true. > > He doesn’t just have pre-made cakes laying around in case someone wanders into his store and wants to buy a wedding cake on the spot. At no point was he willing to sell them a pre-made cake. There were no pre-made cakes sell. Please stop talking about pre-made cakes. Agreed… what kind of baker makes a bunch of $1,000+ wedding cakes and leaves them lying out to go stale, just on the off-chance there’s a lot of weddings that week and he’ll definitely sell them all? …A baker who won’t be in business long. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/125 "2017-12-27T08:30:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wedding cake was awe inspiring to look at, but man did it taste shitty.🙂 Should’ve gone to a REAL baker then, don’tcha think 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/126 "2017-12-27T14:58:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Were there people with sincere religious beliefs who objected to racial mixing? Were any cases brought to the court system based on religious objections? > > I have found no reference to religious concerns to civil rights laws based on race from the time period. You weren’t looking very hard, then. [Newman v. Piggie Park](https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/256/941/2349546/) has been widely discussed in connection with the Masterpiece Cakeshop case. > [@adaher](#): > > But I think that there are three aspects to every actual SCOTUS decision expanding rights: > > 1. The stakes for the class objecting to the expanded liberty were much less than the stakes for the class receiving the recognition of their liberties. > > 2. Both the left and the right have consistently lost whenever they stood against rights and liberties. The presence of a swing court has been a very good thing for liberty vs. statism. > > 3. Despite the hue and cry, the effects of these rulings have been extremely small or nonexistent for the class that didn’t directly benefit. Heller hasn’t increased gun crime. Corporate influence has not risen in politics, if anything the bases have more influence now than in the past. Women are not suffering from lack of access to birth control because a few companies are exempt from the mandate. Not even at the companies in question. And gays will continue to have no challenges getting people to help them with their weddings. Actually, gun crime in DC [did](https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance) increase after Heller. It was on a general downward trend until a couple of years afterwards, and since 2011 it’s gone back up. I make no arguments about whether the two are related, but you should at least have something to back up your claims. If corporate influence in politics has not risen, I invite you to explain why Congress just passed a [broadly unpopular](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/19/poll-gop-tax-bill-304831) tax bill whose chief feature is a corporate tax cut. I have no idea how you concluded that women who work for Hobby Lobby, Catholic Charities, et al., have access to birth control. I’m going to assume you pulled that entirely out of your ass, since you’re not a woman or a Hobby Lobby employee. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/127 "2017-12-27T15:32:05Z")
Because they get this stuff called money, and they can use that money to buy birth control. In Hobby Lobby’s case, they get more money, because being Christian and all they believe in paying their employees well even though they could pay less. Perhaps since their Chrsitianity is unwelcome in the market place they should reduce their employees’ wages to market rates and provide free birth control. I wonder how many women who work for Hobby Lobby would take that deal? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/128 "2017-12-27T15:40:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > they believe in paying their employees well Cite? (Preferably a cite demonstrating that the aspirational statement has, in fact, been reflected by higher pay.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/129 "2017-12-27T15:43:44Z")
> **[Hobby Lobby Raises Minimum Wage to $14 for Full-Time Employees](https://www.christianpost.com/news/hobby-lobby-raises-minimum-wage-to-14-for-full-time-employees-94233/)** > > Arts and crafts giant Hobby Lobby Stores Inc announced on Monday that effective immediately, the minimum wage for its full-time hourly employees at its stores and affiliate Hemisphere was increased ... ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/130 "2017-12-28T10:42:42Z")
So…less than a Costco cashier, and only available to full-time employees. Part-time gets minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/131 "2017-12-28T11:17:34Z")
Actually, part time gets quite a bit above minimum wage, around $9.50. Costco does pay a little more, true. I assume you believe their unbusinesslike personal views on worker treatment have no place in the public square. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/132 "2017-12-28T15:55:05Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Agreed… what kind of baker makes a bunch of $1,000+ wedding cakes and leaves them lying out to go stale, just on the off-chance there’s a lot of weddings that week and he’ll definitely sell them all? A bakery I shop at has a wedding cake – three separated tiers, all white, with sugar bells and piped garlands on the sides\* – on display. I suspect it’s a “Look what we can do for your occasion” display though, and not really for sale. I can’t see their prices anywhere a kilo-buck and they do have some pretty fancy birthday and anniversary cakes that _are_ for sale on display. \*No toppers, not even an arch or something. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/133 "2017-12-28T16:29:17Z")
Here is where I come down - corporations are not people are not entitled to the same rights. If you want to hide behind the corporate shield, you should loose some of your rights. But if you are a sole proprietorship or a partnership, you should retain the rights - and legal responsibilities - of a person. That includes the right to be a bigot. However, where that is the case, you can also be sued for everything you own, because there is no corporate shield, so while you have a right to your bigotry, be careful no one gets food poisoning because the suit will hit your personal property. Corporations do not have religious beliefs. People do. Want to exercise your religious belief within your company, don’t form a corporation. Corporations do not have political opinions, people do. We’ve given corporations personhood - which is as disturbing as giving it to a zygote. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/134 "2017-12-28T17:34:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, part time gets quite a bit above minimum wage, around $9.50. Costco does pay a little more, true. I assume you believe their unbusinesslike personal views on worker treatment have no place in the public square. That’s within 50 cents of minimum wage or lower in almost half the US. Sure, it beats the federal minimum, most of the Mountain states, and the South, but 40% of the country lives where $9.50 is minimum wage. But when claiming 50% is a “little more”, you should probably clarify “unbusinesslike personal views”, especially while defending the company that denies healthcare to half of their employees because of the CEO’s religious beliefs and claiming their Christian beliefs make them superior to all others. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694/135 "2017-12-28T18:10:18Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > {…} a wedding cake – three separated tiers, all white, with sugar bells and piped garlands on the sides\*{…} > > \*No toppers, not even an arch or something. This raises the question, **What is the sexual orientation of this cake,** 1: Hetero-sexual 2: Homo-sexual 3: Cakes don’t have a sexual orientation . . . you fucking moran! CMC fnord! For the record I’mma gonna go with 3 I am. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-bitching-about-scotus-decisions-that-expand-rights/804694.md?page=6)