# It's time to stop requiring students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in school. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 2, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995 "2016-04-02T23:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/61 "2016-04-05T20:49:36Z")
As a 23 year veteran, I don’t really care what Red Skelton had to say about the pledge. (Yes, I’ve heard it before, still don’t care). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/62 "2016-04-05T20:58:28Z")
> [@HipGnosis](#): > > As a 20 year US veteran, I’m appalled at some of these posts. > I don’t have the heart to correct you all… > > For the poor multitude that don’t understand the pledge, I implore you to google “Red Skelton’s Pledge of Allegiance” I just read it and Red was full of shit, especially about the under god part. You are no more American than I am. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/63 "2016-04-05T21:18:14Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > I don’t know what’s wrong with you America-hating communists. There’s nothing wrong with a pledge of allegiance to one’s country. We need to have a strong country so why not pledge allegiance to it? Well, a six year old’s pledge is pretty worthless “You’ll be my best friend forever” on Monday turns into “I hate you and I’m never going to speak to you” on Tuesday and by Friday there are promises of a sleepover. Doesn’t seem like something that’s going to help much in creating a strong country. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/64 "2016-04-05T21:31:05Z")
Guys…I wore green and nobody hates Reds more than I do. I joined up for a chance to shoot some of the Commie bastards FFS. The Pledge is still shit. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/65 "2016-04-05T21:58:57Z")
One thing I have noticed–and deplored–is the way so many kids, of whatever period, write. In 1959 the National Education Association had asked some 16-year-old high-school sophomores to write down the beginning of the Pledge of Allegiance. Here are some results: I plage of lieglion I plege allenaige I pleadge a leision I pledge a leasor I plege alginyence I pleage allenciss I pleague the Leagience I pledge a leiguch This appeared in _Psychology Applied_ (p. 686), by Dr. George W. Crane, who commented on this list: “Yet in 5 years these students will be voters!” The Pledge of Allegiance is far less important than basic education, which these kids in _high school,_ for crying out loud, did not seem to have absorbed! The Pledge had originated in 1892 from a Columbus Day observance and over the years had become hide-bound tradition, to the point that kids were pretty much compelled to recite it. This, as I see it, flies in the face of the very spirit of the freedoms this country was founded on. I consider myself as much a loyal American as the next guy but I see no point in reciting something by rote in order to show it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/66 "2016-04-05T22:10:54Z")
I’m not a veteran and I don’t know why that is being treated by one poster (at least) as a qualification or a credential on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/67 "2016-04-05T22:14:16Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I just read it and Red was full of shit > […] Well, I guess everybody who disagrees with you is. I didn’t know there was any perfect person in the world. Would you walk across the Pacific Ocean tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/68 "2016-04-05T22:48:34Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Well, I guess everybody who disagrees with you is. I didn’t know there was any perfect person in the world. Would you walk across the Pacific Ocean tomorrow? I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/69 "2016-04-05T22:52:41Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. I am trying to convey my disgust with your statement about Red Skelton, for one thing. And I do not recite the Pledge, bit it is not the kind of thing that I would show vicious contempt for. I just know it to be misapplied and not the kind of thing to use to indoctrinate schoolchildren. And your comments don’t help either. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/70 "2016-04-05T23:26:12Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I am trying to convey my disgust with your statement about Red Skelton, for one thing. And I do not recite the Pledge, bit it is not the kind of thing that I would show vicious contempt for. I just know it to be misapplied and not the kind of thing to use to indoctrinate schoolchildren. And your comments don’t help either. That made me laugh out loud. What a loopy comment. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/71 "2016-04-05T23:43:45Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That made me laugh out loud. What a loopy comment. That expresses what appear to be really skewed values. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/72 "2016-04-05T23:49:50Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Exclusion of the middle. If you think Red Skelton is full of shit because of one thing he said, you have to think that everyone you disagree with is full of shit, because {excluded middle.} Depressingly commonplace logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/73 "2016-04-05T23:57:34Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Exclusion of the middle. > > If you think Red Skelton is full of shit because of one thing he said, you have to think that everyone you disagree with is full of shit, because {excluded middle.} > > Depressingly commonplace logical fallacy. I actually don’t think Red Skelton is totally full of shit. I think that that one thing that he said was full of shit. But yeah… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/74 "2016-04-06T00:08:53Z")
I think there might be some chain-yanking going on here. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/75 "2016-04-06T00:29:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think there might be some chain-yanking going on here. Now there’s a good straight line, Ascenray. Thanks. And I know just whose neck I might want to yank the chain around… “loopy,” indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/76 "2016-04-06T01:30:00Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I actually don’t think Red Skelton is totally full of shit. . . . “He don’t know me very well, do he?” ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/77 "2016-04-06T01:37:18Z")
I agree, Trinopus. He sure don’t. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/78 "2016-04-06T02:33:46Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I agree, Trinopus. He sure don’t. He wasn’t agreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/79 "2016-04-06T02:48:48Z")
I actually do agree with **hajario** , but couldn’t resist a quip at Skelton’s expense. And **dougie\_monty** , you boobed up. You reasoned improperly. Study “excluded middle” until you are sure you understand it, in order never to commit it again. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995/80 "2016-04-06T03:27:38Z")
I have never heard the term “excluded middle.” Please define it and tell me how it applies in this context. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-stop-requiring-students-to-recite-the-pledge-of-allegiance-in-school/750995.md?page=5)