# It's upsetting when other whites reveal their racism to me. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307 "2012-03-20T13:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/61 "2012-03-20T21:34:27Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > This seems presumptuous. We don’t even know what the story is at this point other than a black teen (near adult) was shot by a mixed race man in a multiracial private development. > > Racism certainly seems like a likely explanation, but it isn’t the only one at this point. Whatever Zimmerman’s motive for the murder, that the local police let him walk around for weeks without even attempting to detain him is the real indication of racism in that story. The police have to know: Martin was not armed and was never armed; Martin was not doing anything that could be remotely considered “suspicious”; Zimmerman was denigrating Martin to the police operator and claiming “These a\*\*holes always get away,” despite Martin doing nothing more than walking through the neighborhood; Zimmerman has been the subject of several complaints by neighbors regarding his “aggressive” behavior, along with a fixation on discussing crime among black youth; Zimmerman was stalking Martin against the direct advice of the police operator; when several neighbors reported that they heard Martin call for help before the shooting, at least one was “corrected” by a policeman that it was Zimmerman calling for help, even though she continues to maintain it was the younger man, she heard. That they have taken no action, (or had not taken any action prior to the revelation of Martin’s ongoing phone conversation at the time he was shot–I’m not sure what their actions have been in the last few hours), indicates a willingness to shrug off violence inflicted on a black teen. That is racist. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/62 "2012-03-20T21:47:31Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > It’s never going to be completely gone. We will always have the idiots and the hateful among us. But maybe stomping on some of the ‘milder’ incidents will prevent some of the worse ones, eventually. My favorite is when some racist tries to be “clever” and argues that the rest of us are hypocrites. Because sure we tolerate and respect all those other groups, like blacks and women and Jews and gays. But how do we treat racists? With open scorn. Which means that we’re just as prejudiced as they are, we just have a different target for our hate. And at least they admit to being hateful, so they’re a step above us. Wrong, Sheethead. We never claimed to tolerate and respect everything. Yes, we think that black people are as good as white people, women are as good as men, Jews are as good as Christians, and gays are as good as straights. But we never signed on to the idea that racists are as good as non-racists. Not every group is entitled to toleration and respect. Some groups like racists, serial killers, wife beaters, child molesters, and Illinois Nazis are inferior and we have no problems saying so. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/63 "2012-03-20T21:52:26Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I am an invisible immigrant > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Ha! Me too - I am also an invisible immigrant I can not stand “invisible immigrants”. I literally don’t know where they stand, what with them lording their superpowers over us God fearing Americans. When I’m in the shower, I may think I’m alone, but how do I know one of those invisible bastards isn’t right behind me peeking at my butt? It just ain’t right. My God, you two are with me in this room right now, aren’t you? Go back to Invisiblania you bastards! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/64 "2012-03-20T21:56:33Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > . . . lording their superpowers over us God fearing **Americans**. _psssst: They’re both in Canada._ ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/65 "2012-03-20T22:00:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > _psssst: They’re both in Canada._ Are you sure about that? Did you _see_ them there? That’s what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/66 "2012-03-20T22:28:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Whatever Zimmerman’s motive for the murder, that the local police let him walk around for weeks without even attempting to detain him is the real indication of racism in that story. > > The police have to know: > Martin was not armed and was never armed; > Martin was not doing anything that could be remotely considered “suspicious”; > Zimmerman was denigrating Martin to the police operator and claiming “These a\*\*holes always get away,” despite Martin doing nothing more than walking through the neighborhood; > Zimmerman has been the subject of several complaints by neighbors regarding his “aggressive” behavior, along with a fixation on discussing crime among black youth; > Zimmerman was stalking Martin against the direct advice of the police operator; > when several neighbors reported that they heard Martin call for help before the shooting, at least one was “corrected” by a policeman that it was Zimmerman calling for help, even though she continues to maintain it was the younger man, she heard. > That they have taken no action, (or had not taken any action prior to the revelation of Martin’s ongoing phone conversation at the time he was shot–I’m not sure what their actions have been in the last few hours), indicates a willingness to shrug off violence inflicted on a black teen. That is racist. It’s not necessarily an indication of racism. We have a (stupid) “stand your ground” law that creates a strong presumption that a killing allegedly in self-defense was legal. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/67 "2012-03-20T22:33:38Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It’s upsetting when other whites reveal their racism to me. It’s amusing when other whites shout from the rooftops because they want everyone to know how non-racist they are. Seriously, nobody else does this shit but white people. And you brush off allegations of moral posturing, but that’s exactly what this is and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/68 "2012-03-20T22:55:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s not necessarily an indication of racism. We have a (stupid) “stand your ground” law that creates a strong presumption that a killing allegedly in self-defense was legal. Pursuit of a victim is not “standing one’s ground,” (particularly when one has announced the intention to pursue and been told by the police to refrain from that behavior). Cries for help from a victim is not evidence of “standing one’s ground.” Police changing witness testimony is not a result of “standing one’s ground.” The police had three weeks to gather enough evidence to indicate that this was not self-defense and they not only did nothing, they appear to have taken actions to cover up the actions of the assailant. At this point, I would need to see affirmative evidence that they were not acting out of racism. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/69 "2012-03-20T22:58:26Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And you brush off allegations of moral posturing, but that’s exactly what this is and you know it. That’s the point. It’s not posturing. We’re not pretending to not be racist to impress somebody while we secretly agree with everything the racist is saying. We really genuinely think the racist is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/70 "2012-03-20T23:02:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s the point. It’s not posturing. We’re not pretending to not be racist to impress somebody while we secretly agree with everything the racist is saying. We really genuinely think the racist is wrong. Uh huh. Then why seek validation from your peers by posting about how wrong and disgusting it is? Or chime in to the discussion with “me too! I hate racists too! Probably even more than you.”? Does it really personally offend you that some people have negative attitudes towards groups you aren’t a part of and have no association with? Let me guess - I bet some of your best friends are black. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/71 "2012-03-20T23:21:32Z")
Well, now there are two in this thread. This place never ceases to amaze me. Now go ahead and attack me **Rigamarole** if you must. Very few here will take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/72 "2012-03-20T23:21:45Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Does it really personally offend you that some people have negative attitudes towards groups you aren’t a part of and have no association with? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/73 "2012-03-20T23:22:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Well, now there are two in this thread. This place never ceases to amaze me. Now go ahead and attack me **Rigamarole** if you must. Very few here will take it seriously. Why don’t we try to have an adult discussion on the merits of each others’ statements, rather than slinging ad hominem attacks at whoever disagrees with you? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/74 "2012-03-20T23:24:20Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Why don’t we try to have an adult discussion on the merits of each others’ statements, rather than slinging ad hominem attacks at whoever disagrees with you? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/75 "2012-03-20T23:29:51Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Wow. Wow what? Does something about my statement that we should try to have an adult discussion shock you? I wouldn’t think taking ad hominem attacks out of the game should be particularly objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/76 "2012-03-20T23:31:32Z")
You’re the one who was launching the ad hominem attacks. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/77 "2012-03-20T23:34:22Z")
Haha. Don’t worry. i got this same reaction when I started a “Don’t assume I want to hear your racist bullshit” thread. Some people think that being a bare-minimum decent human being makes you a show-off, and their knee-jerk lizard brain instinct is to try to cut your down into whatever subterranean cave they inhabit. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/78 "2012-03-20T23:36:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > You’re the one who was launching the ad hominem attacks. I was? Can you point to where I made an ad hominem attack, specifically? The attacks I was referring to were when the first poster called you out for posturing and a bunch of other posters simply said “oh don’t mind him, he’s just an asshole” as if that was a counter-argument somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/79 "2012-03-20T23:41:53Z")
Technically neither of you has used an ad hominem attack, since that’s about negating someone’s argument by attacking a characteristic of a person. Simple name calling isn’t ad hominem. so: “You’re a bad person for believing that!” - Not ad hominem. but: “His argument is wrong because he’s a bad person!” - ad hominen. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/80 "2012-03-20T23:45:51Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Technically neither of you has used an ad hominem attack, since that’s about negating someone’s argument by attacking a characteristic of a person. Simple name calling isn’t ad hominem. > so: “You’re a bad person for believing that!” - Not ad hominem. > but: “His argument is wrong because he’s a bad person!” - ad hominen. Right, and that’s what some posters were doing upthread to **LonesomePolecat** when he first made a dissenting post, which is what I was referencing. But let’s set this discussion aside, because I’m still curious what, specifically, **davidm** finds so awe-inspiring about my statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307.md?page=5)