# It's upsetting when other whites reveal their racism to me. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307 "2012-03-20T13:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/161 "2012-03-22T02:19:49Z")
I get annoyed by people who presume they know another person’s beliefs because of his or her race, but is too chickenshit to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/162 "2012-03-22T02:32:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How much time you got, bro? Let’s see: > > 1. I get annoyed by people who talk about racism but can’t seem to ever define it. > > 2. I get annoyed that some people seem to find racism in every little thing, even when there are alternative plausible explanations. I think that these people are the reason that we will never get over racism in this country. > > 3. I get annoyed at affirmative action in general. I think that people should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. > > 4. I get annoyed that some people take their self-perceived anti-racism so far that they make ridiculous claims like “there’s no such thing as race.” 1. Racism is assuming someone behaves like a stereotype because of the color of their skin. 2. Yes. 3.Yes. 3. Yes. You got a newsletter? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/163 "2012-03-22T03:01:39Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I’ve been around enough black people who know I am black (ie., comfortable to speak freely) and white people who assume I’m white to know that whites and blacks are almost 100% equally racist. One group just has way more power and influence than the other because of larger numbers and for historical reasons. I’m white. So I’m insulted by black racists and white racists for different reasons. I’m insulted by black racists when they think I’m an unwashed serial killer with a small penis who can’t dance. And I’m insulted by white racists when they think I’m one of them. Besides I always shower after killing a hooker to get the blood off. And my small penis can so dance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/164 "2012-03-22T03:04:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How much time you got, bro? Let’s see: > > 1. I get annoyed by people who talk about racism but can’t seem to ever define it. Posters here actively avoid defining “racism” like doing so would cause them to automatically contract leprosy. I think the only definition of racism that makes sense is “the belief that people of at least one race are inherently and irredeemably inferior to people of at least one other race.” No one has ever wanted to really discuss what they mean when the use the term “racist” or “racism,” and no one has ever directly discussed my definition. I use the only consistent definition for racism I know of. Racism is the belief that there are human races. There are none. And it seem stupid to pretend that there are. > [@](#): > > 2 I get annoyed that some people seem to find racism in every little thing, even when there are alternative plausible explanations. I think that these people are the reason that we will never get over racism in this country. If every single racist were to die in their sleep tonight, and no one else were to ever become a racist, I think that some people would still find racism in all sorts of situations because that’s just how they’re wired. I’ve rarely encountered such people in person. I see them mostly on TV. It annoys me too. But alternative plausible explanations don’t sell with me. There’s usually a most likely explanation. It’s always plausible that someone uses racist language because they have Tourettes. Bring a doctor’s note in that case. If it walks like a duck… > [@](#): > > 1. I get annoyed at affirmative action in general. I think that people should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. And I think that the only way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. I don’t like race based anything. Again, because there are no races. Affirmative Action has been implemented as a quota system, which is reprehensible. I have no problem with affirmative action based on need and merit. > [@](#): > > 1. I get annoyed that some people take their self-perceived anti-racism so far that they make ridiculous claims like “there’s no such thing as race.” Again, there is no such thing as race. I don’t pretend that there is, and I don’t abide people who do. > [@](#): > > That seems like enough for now. I got time. I had enough to enter this post again, because the first one is mysteriously gone. So if you have more to say, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/165 "2012-03-22T03:04:39Z")
Small penises dance like this. Big penises dance like _this_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/166 "2012-03-22T03:13:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I get annoyed by people who talk about racism but can’t seem to ever define it. Posters here actively avoid defining “racism” like doing so would cause them to automatically contract leprosy. I think the only definition of racism that makes sense is “the belief that people of at least one race are inherently and irredeemably inferior to people of at least one other race.” No one has ever wanted to really discuss what they mean when the use the term “racist” or “racism,” and no one has ever directly discussed my definition. There’s very few things that you can define so precisely that you can say your definition is definitive. Most definitions are doing good is they’re 90-99% accurate. I think people avoid defining racism because then other people would start saying, “See, this doesn’t fit your definition. So it isn’t racism.” > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I get annoyed that some people seem to find racism in every little thing, even when there are alternative plausible explanations. I think that these people are the reason that we will never get over racism in this country. If every single racist were to die in their sleep tonight, and no one else were to ever become a racist, I think that some people would still find racism in all sorts of situations because that’s just how they’re wired. It’s true that some people see racism where it probably isn’t present. But it’s also true that some people deny racism when it probably is present. Personally, I think there are more false denials of racism then there are false claims of racism. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I get annoyed at affirmative action in general. I think that people should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. And I think that the only way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. I’d be happy to end all racial discrimination. But you wouldn’t come close to doing that by ending affirmative action. You want to eliminate affirmative action? Work on eliminating all of the other forms of racial discrimination that make it necessary. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I get annoyed that some people take their self-perceived anti-racism so far that they make ridiculous claims like “there’s no such thing as race.” I agree with you on this one. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/167 "2012-03-22T03:17:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m white. So I’m insulted by black racists and white racists for different reasons. I’m insulted by black racists when they think I’m an unwashed serial killer with a small penis who can’t dance. And I’m insulted by white racists when they think I’m one of them. > > Besides I always shower after killing a hooker to get the blood off. And my small penis can so dance. I do not want to subscribe to your newsletter. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/168 "2012-03-22T05:12:00Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Social psychologists have been studying just that for decades. They call the methodology the [minimal group paradigm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_group_paradigm). That was EXACTLY what I suspected, it is great to learn that this is already well understood…now I know the proper name for the phenomenon. I learned something I consider VERY important to use in my life, so…thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/169 "2012-03-22T12:52:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I use the only consistent definition for racism I know of. Racism is the belief that there are human races. There are none. And it seem stupid to pretend that there are. Well, call me stupid and racist, because races exist. _ **Before the Dawn** _ covers it pretty well. If you feed thousands of peoples’ DNA into a database, and ask software to determine what groups it sees, the software - without guidance - separates the DNA first into 5 large groups, which correspond with people of African, European/Indus, Asian, Australia and South Pacific, and American ancestry. That’s an objective analysis. A software algorithm has no axe to grind, no preconceptions, and no judgment. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/170 "2012-03-22T13:15:08Z")
Probably best to discuss it in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=644631) thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/171 "2012-03-22T13:40:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I was very startled when a co-worker talked about moving to Idaho… Where there aren’t so many Martians. > > I blinked stupidly, and she had to explain. “Green people. Get it?” “Green” is a code word for a racial minority? I assume? Or bitching about environmentalists? Just clarifying 'cause I’m dumb. ETA: I see you answered last night. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/172 "2012-03-22T13:42:36Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > “Green” is a code word for a racial minority? I assume? Or bitching about environmentalists? Just clarifying 'cause I’m dumb. > ETA: I see you answered last night. I’m guessing either a code for “black persons”, using an unimaginative different color to obscure their intent. Or alternatively like someone above said, “green” as in “green card requiring Martian Aliens”. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/173 "2012-03-22T16:25:33Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Well, call me stupid and racist, because races exist. _ **Before the Dawn** _ covers it pretty well. If you feed thousands of peoples’ DNA into a database, and ask software to determine what groups it sees, the software - without guidance - separates the DNA first into 5 large groups, which correspond with people of African, European/Indus, Asian, Australia and South Pacific, and American ancestry. That’s an objective analysis. A software algorithm has no axe to grind, no preconceptions, and no judgment. Erm. That is not remotely true to my knowledge. Just to mention two probable falsehoods (based on scientific research that is pretty well known these days), one southern African group is further removed from their direct neighbors in southern Africa than those neighbors are removed from a Swede, a Mayan, or a Tasmanian. Second, the peoples of the South Pacific are largely descended from a group who left southeast China or Taiwan a few thousand years ago. They are not closely related to Australian natives. I see the people on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) by and large are liking the book, but this review: [Amazon Sign-In](http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dawn-Recovering-History-Ancestors/product-reviews/014303832X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R3UMM8QYEOGFIF), most especially the part about modern humans being confined to Africa until 50,000 years ago (WTF?) suggests the author may well be talking out of his ass when it comes to facts. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/174 "2012-03-22T16:27:59Z")
Anyway, IMO races exist in a number of senses, sociology being the most important and culture also important in certain instances. But where you draw the lines differs from society to society; and in a strictly biological sense, those lines – to the extent they do exist – are not in the same places as Western racialist science has liked to put them. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/175 "2012-03-22T16:48:43Z")
Eh, since it’s likely to continue in this thread: I have to confess I don’t know what the parameters of such a blind software would look like. There needs to be a sorting algorithm no matter what. If it works something like a factor analysis (multiway analysis of variance perhaps) then that’d require defining groups and determining if there are statistical differences between groups. The two obvious genetic differences that come to mind for me would be, first, sex: there would be at least one leg of a chromosome different between every person of different sexes. Then the other thing would be height: I read that the human genome project found greater significance between groups according to height than between groups according to race. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/176 "2012-03-22T17:14:59Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I just makes me sad when I see someone I’ve worked with, and who’s seemed like a decent person, show that side of herself. I get your point but I don’t think it makes someone a less than decent person to have human flaws. IN the late 60s early 70s my oldest sister married a black man and brought him home to meet the family. We lived in rural Maine and I believe he was the first black person I had ever seen or met. We soon discoverd that some of my brothers in law were racist and refused to come vist when he was there. They didn’t even want their wives to visit thier own sister if he was around. My dear grandmother didn’t want my sister to bring him around because she was concerned what the neighbors would say. As a teenage budding young liberal I was confused and offended. Still, I couldn’t bring myself to disown these people whom I had loved and had known so many positive things about. It’s disappointing to see the flaws in people you know and work with, and may otherwise like and care about, but that’s hummanity. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/177 "2012-03-22T17:46:02Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Eh, since it’s likely to continue in this thread: I have to confess I don’t know what the parameters of such a blind software would look like. There needs to be a sorting algorithm no matter what. If it works something like a factor analysis (multiway analysis of variance perhaps) then that’d require defining groups and determining if there are statistical differences between groups. I’ll have to track down a copy of the book, to get to the original research he was discussing. > [@](#): > > I see the people on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) by and large are liking the book, but this review: [http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dawn-Re...R3UMM8QYEOGFIF](http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dawn-Re...R3UMM8QYEOGFIF), most especially the part about modern humans being confined to Africa until 50,000 years ago (WTF?) suggests the author may well be talking out of his ass when it comes to facts. Is it radical to say that _homo sapiens_ left Africa about 50,000 years ago? And [here’s a response to that review (not mine).](http://www.amazon.com/review/R3UMM8QYEOGFIF/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=014303832X&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/178 "2012-03-22T17:59:09Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Well, call me stupid and racist, because races exist. _ **Before the Dawn** _ covers it pretty well. If you feed thousands of peoples’ DNA into a database, and ask software to determine what groups it sees, the software - without guidance - separates the DNA first into 5 large groups, which correspond with people of African, European/Indus, Asian, Australia and South Pacific, and American ancestry. That’s an objective analysis. A software algorithm has no axe to grind, no preconceptions, and no judgment. Really? When was this done. I just wrote a program that divided everybody into a few thousand population groups. I thought that must not be right, so I fixed it, and then it divided every body into a few groups that crossed continents. But that couldn’t be right so I tried again and it only came back with one group. But I don’t give up easily. I got it to work right. Feed in 50,000 DNA samples, and it comes back with 50,000 groups. But that was the hard way. I should have just asked the software to figure it out. How do you do that? Do you talk into the mouse like it’s microphone? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/179 "2012-03-22T19:05:37Z")
I’m not trying to make judgments on radical or not, but I believe the consensus says it’s false – there are skeletons in the middle east in the neighborhood of twice that age that show the traits of modern humans. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307/180 "2012-03-22T20:00:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You are certainly full of shit. I haven’t “sworn” up and down any of those things. > > I expect you to come back with some bogus shit from yesteryear, saying, “See! Lookit!” like the retarded oaf that you are. And your wrongness will be apparent for all to see. But even with recent history informing you of your incompetency playing the “gotcha” game, you will nonetheless do a search on my postings. This is apparently what gets you off–stalking someone who barely knew you existed till a few days ago. But who am I tell to judge you? Whatever gets you through the night, yo. To add to what you’re saying, it’s amusing that with all his insistance that “race” is a real biological concept as opposed to just being a socio-political construct, people should notice Rand repeatedly refuses to define exactly what a “white” person is and what a “black” person is. For example, Monstro, while I mean no disrespect, while you clearly consider yourself black, and are considered black by most Americans, I suspect that like most “African-Americans” or “American Blacks” you’d be considered a non-black had you been born in Brazil, South Africa, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, or any other country where most people were of Sub-Saharran African descent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-upsetting-when-other-whites-reveal-their-racism-to-me/616307.md?page=10)