# It's weird but John Wayne's World it ain't **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2001, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386 "2001-09-18T14:44:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/1 "2001-09-18T14:44:03Z")
IMHO, there’s been a lot of nonsense written on the board in the past week and I just want to politely vent a little. With all due respect, people, we really do need to start looking at this as more than a war against a country otherwise the Genie really will be out of the bottle. Yeah, it’ s ‘inconvenient’, maybe even intellectually challenging, to not have a traditionally defined concept (a nation with borders) to fight but this is the real world. Lets deal with it. Afghanistan is not the enemy. Bin Ladin might well be and, by extension, so might the Taliban regime but the population of the country that hosts both is not. Those people don’t even know what day of the week it is, literally – little or no electricity outside the two main cities, 85% peasant farmers, little or no education, or medicine and they’re three years into a drought. Most of them haven’t even heard a radio and it seems many don’t even understand the notion of ‘Afghanistan’ because the boundaries of their entire world is tribal. It’s not even the geopolitical balance of that particular region that could be destabilised (for example, volatile Pakistan needs but a gentle shove from the Mullah’s to see Islamic Nationalism seize hold. And Pakistan has nuclear capability, folks) but the entire Muslim world – even moderate Muslims are going to be radicalised by the notion of the West going in, bombing indiscriminately and replacing their society with ours. It’s the prospect of generations of future terrorists, thousands of them willing to strap bombs to their chests and stroll through every shopping mall from the West Coast, through Europe and to Jerusalem that concerns me. Look at Israel in recent years; the suicide bombing and the incursions on personal freedoms, the social, political and economic impact of combating terrorism. And that could, conceivably, happen. Remember, the Jihad against the Soviet invasion of 79-89 wasn’t fought by ‘Afghanistan’ but, as best we can tell, by 10,000s of Islamic Nationalists flooding in from up to 50 countries. And then there’s oil. So lets think smart and focus on the enemy, not who we want to be the enemy. It’s Bin Ladin and other extremist terrorist sub-sects in many countries (including the US and UK) and not the ignorant and / or moderate majority. To do otherwise is to play right into the terrorists hands. And George, dear, characterising the whole thing as a “Crusade” really, _really_ isn’t the thing to do. Aside from the ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’ imagery it gives the enemy just too good a sound bite - either quieten down there and let the grown up’s get on with it or take some classes. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/2 "2001-09-18T14:57:46Z")
I just thought this point needed to be said again: > [@](#): > > So lets think smart and focus on the enemy, not who we want to be the enemy. Great post L\_C. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/3 "2001-09-18T15:06:10Z")
Well said. Flattening people that have never even heard of you in the name of “justice” just isn’t on. The “war” rhetoric is getting real old, real fast. This isn’t a war. War has a legal definition, and this ain’t it. But it might be one if we keep whipping eachother up into nationalistic fervour. What we have here is criminal activity. It needs to be stamped out. But do have a thought as to the correct placing of the boot. pan ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/4 "2001-09-18T15:47:43Z")
London\_Calling, bless you. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/5 "2001-09-18T15:54:50Z")
I agree that we need to distinguish between Afghans and the Taliban, since they are not the same thing. And we also need to realize that dropping a lot of bombs isn’t going to accomplish much. Compared to Afghanistan, Iraq was a modern country. But, I don’t think any actual military people are advocating saturation bombing of the whole country, just armchair generals. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/6 "2001-09-18T15:57:46Z")
I don’t normally “me, too”, but I think this OP deserves it. It addresses a point that I don’t think has seen enough attention: that we need to think beyond Osama Bin Laden, because the effects of whatever action we take will certainly not stop with him. Thank you for posting that. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/7 "2001-09-18T16:12:10Z")
Very well said, L\_C. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/8 "2001-09-18T16:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > But, I don’t think any actual military people are advocating saturation bombing of the whole country, just armchair generals And this is, in my perception, the point that L\_C made in his post. £80 sterling worth of Drink coming your way if you make it to Dublin L\_C ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/9 "2001-09-18T18:51:55Z")
Bravo, L\_C, and thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/10 "2001-09-18T18:53:38Z")
Amen, L\_C. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/11 "2001-09-18T18:58:55Z")
LC, Good post. But… The bombs aren’t really going to stop from going off over here no matter what we do imho. Your after work or weekend trip to the mall might be the last thing you do. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/12 "2001-09-18T22:13:05Z")
Mr Calling, there’s a pint of Guinness with your name on it sitting on a bar somewhere in Amsterdam. _Excellent_ post, mate. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/13 "2001-09-19T00:04:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*LC, > > Good post. But… > > The bombs aren’t really going to stop from going off over here no matter what we do imho. Your after work or weekend trip to the mall might be the last thing you do. \*\* Bill, can I just say that last remark was in extremely poor taste? Right now I’m having fucking PANIC attacks at the thought of nuclear war-I don’t need shit like this!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Fiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/14 "2001-09-19T04:37:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > But, I don’t think any actual military people are advocating saturation bombing of the whole country, just armchair generals. I’m personally hanging a lot of hope on this very thought. That the U.S. and NATO _haven’t_ moved against anyone yet is very heartening to me. It speaks to me of deliberation, of acting toward a goal rather than in revenge. So yeah, good one, **L\_C**. I agree. (I hadn’t seen that Bush used the word “crusade” before now. Ouch.) ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/15 "2001-09-19T12:57:32Z")
I don’t know if it’s appropriate in a Pit Thread but very warm thanks everyone. I put it here because I anticipated a more contentious response (looking around shiftily…) and **Bill** , I’m particularly glad you piped up: I guess it’s not unreasonable to say you’re part of Bush’s middle-America constituency (some of the President’s off autocue rhetoric seems to talking to you) so it was reassuring to see your comments. Thanks to all, including the Euro Trash - we’re going to need a good drink after this. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/16 "2001-09-19T19:39:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > > Bill, can I just say that last remark was in extremely poor taste? Right now I’m having fucking PANIC attacks at the thought of nuclear war-I don’t need shit like this!!! What you don’t need reality? Ok, guin everything is just going to be just peachy from now on. Feel better? LC, I guess you are from England right? What do people over in England think about all this? Is it still all over your news too? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/17 "2001-09-19T19:56:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Mr Calling, there’s a pint of Guinness with your name on it sitting on a bar somewhere in Amsterdam. \*\* Excuse me, but doesn’t the Netherlands have many fine beerlike drinks of its own? Why on Earth would anybody travel to another country and drink the same crap you can get, fresher, at home? As much in this absurd world does, this reminds me of a [Monty Python sketch.](http://www.montypython.net/hbowlmm3.php) “…and bleedin’ Watney’s Red Barrel.” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/18 "2001-09-19T19:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess you are from England right? What do people over in England think about all this? Is it still all over your news too? 300 UK citizens died in the WTC blast, Bill, so yes, it’s on their news, too. Guin, calm down. you are in no more danger today than you were two weeks ago. LC, well-done. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/19 "2001-09-19T20:04:44Z")
Somehow, that’s not nearly as reassuring as you might have intended. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386/20 "2001-09-19T20:39:24Z")
Dropzone, Well as long as you’re “pointedly” ignoring me. Pretty hard to do huh? 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-weird-but-john-waynes-world-it-aint/82386.md?page=2)