# It's wrong to "ghost" people **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 9, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118 "2017-11-09T13:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/81 "2018-01-22T19:35:46Z")
I just realized that “ghosting” is what happened to me, back in the dawn of time, pre-digital, when all we had was tin cans on a string (OK, telephones). I had met a guy, seen him maybe 2 or 3 times and been to his place. The last conversation we had on the phone seemed pretty straightforward to me, but afterwards he just stopped answering his phone or returning my calls. It drove me crazy, what had I done wrong? What had I said? Ironically, I ran into him a few weeks later at a bar, and I failed to have the courage to ask him what the hell happened. We both pretended we were strangers. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/82 "2018-01-22T19:40:38Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Do you know where ghosting, as the concept we now understand, originated? Women on the internet, talking to a few different men on various dating apps, gets closer to one guy and tries to politely break it off with the other. Y’know, the way they’ve been taught and socialized. Only to find a disturbingly high number of those contacts get kind of aggressive. Everything from, ‘Well, you don’t know what you’re missing!’ And then, when they can’t make headway, move on to calling her a cunt, etc. So women learned to just ghost instead. From there it just became much more common. That’s my understanding of where it sort of originated. Not defending it, just think it’s and interesting piece of the puzzle to understand is all. Yes. It’s not a fair way to deal with People. My instinctual reaction is to give People Feedback so they have a Chance to improve themselves if they want. But in US culture, women are taught to let men down gently, never say no, because too many men flip out and harrass, stalk or kill women if they feel slighted/ rejected (because they are great guys and deserve a woman!) So in this context, it’s the only reasonable way for women to behave. If Society at large agrees that speaking out openly is better than being polite, and that women can say no without repercussions, this practice can disappear. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/83 "2018-01-22T19:47:34Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Is this really ‘etiquette demands’ or is it more ‘Chronos wants this’? In a professional context - interviewing an employee - not answering at all is shitty behaviour. The excuse many Business use is that notifying a candidate that they weren’t Chosen makes them liable to be sued for discrimination, but it’s still shitty. If the ad says right at the start that they won’t send back your Folder to save postage, that’s ok. But send a one-page letter or email that you weren’t Chosen, so you can apply elsewhere. (Especially if 20 People apply, and the interview process + Clearing with HR takes weeks, anyway). As for who determines what etiquette is - there are etiquette books and Websites. Generally, People should say “No” in theory. But if some Boor doesn’t get it, then ignoring is quite acceptable. Since ghosting skips the “no” = implying/ Assuming that the other Person is a Boor/ Stalker/ dangerous is problematic; but women have a right to protect themselves given statistics. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/84 "2018-01-22T19:53:27Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > One thing I’ve learned about this from the experts, i.e. professionals who study human behavior and social interaction, and whose results are cited in the articles that come up in Google searches, is that there’s a large overlap of ghosts and ghostees. It’s likely most ghosts have been ghosted themselves. That’s interesting. I wonder if part of this is re-enforcing bad behaviour because it’s seen as normal - all People in my circle do it, so it can’t be that bad? Or is that the same People with bad manners move in the same social media circle and bump into others with the same behaviour, while in another circle, People don’t ghost, but it averages out? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/85 "2018-01-22T20:01:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t think any of these examples are “ghosting”. If you tell someone you don’t want to see them and they continue to pursue you, ignoring their calls and texts is certainly an acceptable options. > > Ghosting is simply not responding without any notification. There’s no “I don’t want to see you” or “I’m not feeling this”. One day you’re making plans. The next it’s radio silence. > > Now dating has change a lot since I’ve been single. But from what I remember back in the “pre-ghosting” days, people still played lots of games. i.e. not calling back for 3 days or selectively cancelling or showing up late for dates. But now, in addition to “ghosting”, it also sounds like people put each other in “holding patterns” to call on weeks or months later. They aren’t examples of ghosting, they are the reason people ghost. (And yeah, I haven’t dated in ages, but I seem to recall a lot of complaints about “he never called - he said he’d call.” Not me, I wasn’t a wait by the phone sort of person) And yeah, ghosting helps prevent that since what you do is block the number. If its a casual acquaintance, they can’t show up on your doorstep because hopefully, they don’t know where you live. But that just might be me - since I’m one of the #metoo survivors of things like sexual harassment, stalking, and rape. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/86 "2018-01-22T20:01:45Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > As for who determines what etiquette is - there are etiquette books and Websites. So anyone who self-publishes a book or spends an hour to slap up a website gets to declare rules? If two websites disagree, how is that abjudicated? If I slap up an etiquette website that says people have to do things exactly how I like, does that mean everyone then must dance to my tune (literally, if I say that’s what’s required)? Does stuff just become etiquette when it’s posted/printed even if none of the people involved agree to it? Do you begin to see how silly the idea of ‘etiquette says you should…’ is as a justification for ‘I want you to…’? > [@](#): > > Generally, People should say “No” in theory. But if some Boor doesn’t get it, then ignoring is quite acceptable. Since ghosting skips the “no” = implying/ Assuming that the other Person is a Boor/ Stalker/ dangerous is problematic; but women have a right to protect themselves given statistics. I’ll also note that your “People should say “No” in theory” above directly contradicts some etiquette advice from people generally regarded as experts on the topic. Miss Manners, for example, has said that a string of “I’m busy” until the other person takes the hint is preferable to a direct “No”. Which is further evidence that declarations of “etiquette says that” are really just “I want but am trying to bolster my position with an appeal to authority”. And where is the theoretical etiquette published? I’m interested in how the ‘people should say ‘no’’ rule is applied to situations where the person doesn’t even realize there’s a relationship, like the ‘one date’ or ‘met in person one time’ situations. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/87 "2018-01-22T20:06:23Z")
Why is Ghosting considered new? 40 years ago. I was in high school and would take a girl out. I thought the date went well. Next day, the girl didn’t return my phone calls. She avoided me at school. \ It stung a little but life goes on. Happens to almost everyone. I always tried to handle it with class. Didn’t press the issue or confront her. She isn’t interested? That’s cool. I’ll take somebody else to the movie. My biggest concern was not embarrassing myself in a pathetic confrontation. Why didn’t you call me back? What did I do wrong? That’s never been my style. I won’t ever grovel for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/88 "2018-01-22T20:15:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Why is Ghosting considered new? I think because deliberate avoidance now coincides with technical reason. If 40 years ago, Alice didn’t call Bob back, Bob knew she wasn’t interested. If today Alice has texted/chatted/whatever with Bob for (certain amount of time) and then doesn’t answer any more, she might have a Real Life Problem taking her time away. Her phone/ Computer/ Internet might be broken, cell phone has no power… So it’s unclear. > [@](#): > > My biggest concern was not embarrassing myself in a pathetic confrontation. Why didn’t you call me back? What did I do wrong? That’s never been my style. I won’t ever grovel for anyone. It’s less about groveling, and more that a Man asking a woman “why didn’t you …?”, especially in US culture of ownership, is putting pressure on the woman to justify herself. It quickly veers into Stalking/ not letting go. Most men who start asking “Why are you dropping me?” Aren’t interested in getting Feedback for self-improvement, or wanting to communicate like adults about possible mis-understandings; rather, they feel insulted as not being good enough, and won’t accept explanations “I’m not a bad guy, you should give me another Chance”. That can become scary or manipulating for the woman. That’s why People shouldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/89 "2018-01-22T20:17:51Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I think because deliberate avoidance now coincides with technical reason. If 40 years ago, Alice didn’t call Bob back, Bob knew she wasn’t interested. > If today Alice has texted/chatted/whatever with Bob for (certain amount of time) and then doesn’t answer any more, she might have a Real Life Problem taking her time away. Her phone/ Computer/ Internet might be broken, cell phone has no power… > So it’s unclear. It’s the same thing as before. Alice of 40 years ago might have had her head stuck in a vise. She didn’t, but she could have. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/90 "2018-01-22T20:19:07Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > It’s the same thing as before. Alice of 40 years ago might have had her head stuck in a vise. She didn’t, but she could have. Who are you going out with, that “having head stuck in a vise” is the first Explanation for lack of contact you think off? 😕 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/91 "2018-01-22T20:21:14Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > In a professional context - interviewing an employee - not answering at all is shitty behaviour. The excuse many Business use is that notifying a candidate that they weren’t Chosen makes them liable to be sued for discrimination, but it’s still shitty. That’s not even true. How would a business think that not responding at all is more defensible than formally rejecting a candidate? The actual reason is that businesses either don’t have time or can’t be bothered to notify a candidate. Keep in mind that your interviewer often just provides feedback to Recruiting, but has no responsibility for following up. Another reason is that they still might hire you. I’ve been on interviews where I’ve been hired six months after the process started. Usually what happens is that they are waiting for some project to land so they have something billable for you to work on. Some firms (like mine), constantly interview candidates and only hire one if a project happens to land. Then sometimes you simply can’t respond back to all 200 candidates that applied for a position online. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/92 "2018-01-22T20:27:31Z")
I can see where technology and social media would make ghosting more painful. Someone you follow on twitter and your phone is packed with Texts and emails. Getting dumped would be more painful. Severing the social media connections and deleting texts. I’m glad that wasn’t an issue when I dated. My biggest concern was accidentally bumping into a former date at school. It was always awkward initially after breaking up. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/93 "2018-01-22T20:35:25Z")
Etiquette demands that when you can make someone else’s life much easier and less stressful by doing something that costs you almost no effort at all, that you do that. Not ghosting people is just one example of that. Literally all the effort it takes to not ghost someone is a text that says “Sorry, not interested”-- It doesn’t get much easier than that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/94 "2018-01-22T20:38:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Etiquette demands that when you can make someone else’s life much easier and less stressful by doing something that costs you almost no effort at all, that you do that. Not ghosting people is just one example of that. Literally all the effort it takes to not ghost someone is a text that says “Sorry, not interested”-- It doesn’t get much easier than that. I like how the concerns people have shared are now defined as “almost no effort at all.” If your life is made much easier and less stressful from a “Sorry, not interested,” you are too invested too soon. Because if you are only invested in someone where the timing and interactions make sense, then a “Sorry, not interested” is a profound rejection. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/95 "2018-01-22T20:58:29Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Does stuff just become etiquette when it’s posted/printed even if none of the people involved agree to it? > > Do you begin to see how silly the idea of ‘etiquette says you should…’ is as a justification for ‘I want you to…’? Well etiquette also says it’s wrong to be obnoxious in public, smack your lips when eating, not offer your seat on the train to someone who’s infirm or just obviously needs it more than you, etc…and in agreeing with those norms I’m sure I have a stronger case than my merely wanting people to abide by them. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/96 "2018-01-22T21:14:33Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > So in this context, it’s the only reasonable way for women to behave. If Society at large agrees that speaking out openly is better than being polite, and that women can say no without repercussions, this practice can disappear. One shouldn’t think that ghosting is done only by women to shake off the creepy, clingy, or entitled. Men do it too gor a variety of reasons; it’s definitely equal opportunity here. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/97 "2018-01-22T21:22:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Etiquette demands that when you can make someone else’s life much easier and less stressful by doing something that costs you almost no effort at all, that you do that. Not ghosting people is just one example of that. Literally all the effort it takes to not ghost someone is a text that says “Sorry, not interested”-- It doesn’t get much easier than that. First off, you still have utterly failed to justify your use of ‘Etiquette demands’ in place of ‘Chronos wants you to’. You seem to think that you’re allowed to declare that your personal preferences are ‘etiquette’ and that everyone must follow them, but as this thread shows that’s simply not the case. And why doesn’t the “when you can make someone else’s life much easier and less stressful by doing something that costs you almost no effort at all, that you do that,” rule apply to YOU? You could make everyone’s life much easier by sending them a text before any potential meeting explaining that you require that they send you a formal ‘not interested’ text if they decide they don’t want to see you again. I notice that, again and again, the ‘obligation’ crowd is perfectly willing to dictate others’ behavior, but isn’t willing to put in what they claim is a minimal effort themselves. As people have pointed out, it doesn’t take ‘almost no effort at all’ in many ways. The fact that you don’t care about the effort that other people put into an action (largely because they’re other people) is just selfishness, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t actually putting in effort. A direct ‘not interested’ takes a lot of mental effort for some people, especially those who’ve had years of socialization that they should never give a hard no. The ‘not interested’ often prompts stalkery or aggressive responses, which also take a lot of mental effort to deal with. Further, it requires someone to come to a clear ‘not interested’ decision, which they may not have come to - a lot of ‘ghosting’ comes down to ‘oh, a text with PERSON, not interested right now, maybe later’ and things drifting off, with no ‘not ever interested’ decision actually happening. Going through every random chat and brief personal interaction and specifically examining how you feel about the person, then coming to a formal ‘yes/no’ decision is exhausting if you meet a lot of people, and wholly unnatural for some people And again, the idea that meeting someone once in real life or sharing a few online chats obligates someone to ANYTHING is simply absurd. People can drift into and out of chat, or casually meet up without suddenly being obligated to a formal breakup procedure. The fact that you don’t want to accept it doesn’t constitute an actual obligation, and the fact that you want to put an obligation on people doesn’t mean that ‘etiquette’ does so. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/98 "2018-01-22T21:41:07Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > One shouldn’t think that ghosting is done only by women to shake off the creepy, clingy, or entitled. Men do it too gor a variety of reasons; it’s definitely equal opportunity here. Yes, I didn’t mean to deny that, I wanted to Point out that under current circumstances, women have a good reason for acting not-nice. Men, however, don’t have that excuse, so if they do it, it’s just shitty. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/99 "2018-01-22T21:42:12Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Yes, I didn’t mean to deny that, I wanted to Point out that under current circumstances, women have a good reason for acting not-nice. > > Men, however, don’t have that excuse, so if they do it, it’s just shitty. Women are perfectly capable of being creepy, over-investing in relationships, and inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118/100 "2018-01-22T21:46:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That’s not even true. Yet that’s what Managers reply in interviews when asked. > [@](#): > > How would a business think that not responding at all is more defensible than formally rejecting a candidate? not answering: the candidate can’t be sure. Formal rejection: “You rejected me only because …” It’s easy to raise a suit, even if it’s unlikely to be successful, so Business want to avoid it. > [@](#): > > The actual reason is that businesses either don’t have time or can’t be bothered to notify a candidate. Keep in mind that your interviewer often just provides feedback to Recruiting, but has no responsibility for following up. So they are badly organized. It’s not that HR has to mail out 100 letters in one hour - the first weeding out before the interviews takes days-weeks; the interviews take days; and so on. If 20 People are interviewed each day, I expect a competent HR Company to have a form letter ready and fill in only names + adress in the space of 1 week. > [@](#): > > Then sometimes you simply can’t respond back to all 200 candidates that applied for a position online. Why not? You have their email-adress, do a search+ select to filter out the one Person Chosen and do a mass-mailing to the rest “Sorry, place is filled”. If the Company can’t do a mass-mailing, how can they do Business? (A mom+pop place with 5 employees will likely not do an online search and get 200 candidates). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-wrong-to-ghost-people/801118.md?page=6)