# iTunes Music Store Sucks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846 "2003-10-16T19:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/21 "2003-10-17T01:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meros \* > \*\*Unless it changed with the new version doesn’t this only work with AAC files you rip from CD and not with the DRMed files you get from iTMS? \*\* Yes. But you can also just import cds as mp3s. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/22 "2003-10-17T01:34:02Z")
> [@](#): > > So you complain that Apple doesn’t support mp3s while simulatneously complaining that mp3s have poorer quality? No, I complain that if I want to use an iTunes Music Store song on my portable music player I have to convert it from one lossy format to another lossy format. Lossy formats are less than CD quality to start with, and it doesn’t help when you start converting between them. Note that my rant title is: iTunes **Music Store** Sucks. I don’t give a shit about unprotected AAC files. That’s not what you get from the iTunes Music Store. I’m complaining about not being able to use files from, get ready for it, the iTunes Music Store on my portable music player. If I have to burn them to a CD, then rip them back into MP3 format to do this, I would not say that I can use them on my portable music player. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/23 "2003-10-17T01:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*_Nitpick:_ That should be “…nothing else **yet.** ” Since AAC is an open standard (part of the MPEG4 audio standard, IIRC), there’s nothing preventing anyone else from creating a portable music player that supports AAC files. \*\* Sure there is. At least, supporting iTunes Music Store AAC files. As I understand it, Apple wraps the iTMS files with its own custom DRM. Unless they’re willing to open it up to other portable music player manufacturers, I doubt we’ll be seeing support for iTMS files on anything other than an iPod anytime soon. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this also applies to AAC CD players. So my original statement as I intended it to be read stands: Apple’s AAC files cannot be used on anything other than an iPod. In the words of Creative support representative Harvey Fong, “iPods are the only players that will accept the Apple wrapper.” ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/24 "2003-10-17T02:34:09Z")
I have been having all sorts of problems burning CDs on my PC. (I think it’s mostly software related.) So I wasn’t all that hopeful that iTunes would burn me a CD. But it did. Seamlessly. Fast. Nice and fast. Much faster than XP’s built-in burning software, much faster (and easier, and **much** more _seamless_) than Windows Media Player. I love it. Unless some funky bugs or weird shit starts cropping up, iTunes for Windows is _it_ for me. It was always _it_ for my Mac. iTunes is the bomb, man. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/25 "2003-10-17T05:03:08Z")
For approx. 75-125% of the price of a CD elsewhere (depending on the CD), you lose: [ul] [li]Liner notes[/li][li]CD and case[/li][li]Full CD quality - AAC files are lossy compressed[/li][li]The ability to easily convert your music to any audio file format with minimal quality loss[/li][/ul] Yeah, it’s more convenient than buying CDs and you can purchase individual tracks, but that doesn’t make up for the disadvantages. Start offering non-DRM, losslessly-compressed tracks for half the price of CDs and we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/26 "2003-10-17T05:24:35Z")
Who the fuck actually reads liner notes? Those things waste more paper than the operating manuals for toasters. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/27 "2003-10-17T05:29:15Z")
Did anyone ever doubt that iTunes sucked? I can get higher quality music for free than I can get from paying exorbitant amounts at iTunes. And as far as I know, iTunes doesn’t even have a subscription thing like eMusic, to let you download lots of music. So what, really, is the point of iTunes in the first place? Paying boatloads of money just so you can say “I used iTunes!”? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/28 "2003-10-17T05:31:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > \*\*Yeah, it’s more convenient than buying CDs and you can purchase individual tracks, but that doesn’t make up for the disadvantages. Start offering non-DRM, losslessly-compressed tracks for half the price of CDs and we’ll talk. \*\* Actually, I thought being able to buy individual songs rather than entire albums was the whole point. Die-hard fans of a particular group will of course still want their original, machine-pressed copies and shiny cases. But if I’m a casual listener who only wants two or three Grateful Dead tunes, the iTMS makes more sense. I’ve been pondering buying some Leon Redbone albums from iTMS for a while now, because while I like the music, I don’t care about the casing. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/29 "2003-10-17T05:31:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > **Who the fuck actually reads liner notes?** I do. Convenient place to find lyrics, most of the time. Sometimes there’s a nice piece written by the band, like with NOFX’s War on Errorism. Nice art. Fun stuff, too, like that crazy collage that came with Dead Kennedy’s Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables. Don’t bash the notes. You know what? Right here _points_ is a great local music store. They almost always have what I want. If they don’t, they order it. Prices are low - I’ve never paid more than $14 for a new album, usually around $11. Sure, it’s an inconvenience. But ya know, I think I’ll just go there anyway. Why did I even bother with this music download crap? What a waste of time. I must have been deceived by all those who hailed iTMS like it was the second coming of Christ. Good God people, it’s a slightly above average media player, a CD burner no better or worse than any other I’ve used, and a worthless music store. What’s the big deal? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/30 "2003-10-17T05:37:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nightime \* > I can get higher quality music for free than I can get from paying exorbitant amounts at iTunes. Well, I wouldn’t call it exorbitant, but it’s certainly too much for DRM-crippled music with lossy compression and no physical materials. ---
**Author:** ![Latino\_Yoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Latino\_Yoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latino_Yoshi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/31 "2003-10-17T06:08:52Z")
Just a small note from an experienced iTunes user: The DRM in the AAC music from the music store disappears as soon as you burn the music to CD. This is because the music gets converted back into AIFF, which has no support of DRM, when burned to CD. The exception would be if you’re burning your music as a “data cd.” You can still tranfer .m4p music (AAC with DRM) to any computer, but to play the music, you must have a particular computer “authorized” by iTunes. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/32 "2003-10-17T06:48:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cheddarsnax \* > A question to iTunes subscribers: Can you redownload music you have already purchased? For free, I mean. No, you should back up your music, just like any other important computer file. Luckily, iTunes will easily let you do that, since it can burn data CDs with your music files as well. I imagine Apple doesn’t allow re-downloading to prevent people abusing their bandwidth. > [@](#): > > Here’s another complaint: It installed an iPod service, which runs every time I start my computer. I don’t remember being asked about that. I don’t own an iPod. Why did I get an iPod service? Because that way, if you do get an iPod in the future, you can plug it in and have iTunes launch immediately. There is no need for such a service on MacOS X (at least as far as I can see, with a quick check of “top”), so maybe this is due to a limitation with Windows. > [@](#): > > I’m complaining about not being able to use files from, get ready for it, the iTunes Music Store on my portable music player. If I buy an anamorphic DVD and my antiquated DVD player doesn’t support anamorphic widescreen, do I blame the studio that made the DVD, or kick myself for not having a more recent, up-to-date-with-the-standards DVD player? > [@](#): > > Good God people, it’s a slightly above average media player, a CD burner no better or worse than any other I’ve used, and a worthless music store. What’s the big deal? The ability to buy “War on Drugs” without buying the entire “Everything to Everyone” album, maybe? A new paradigm for music sales? How about being able to find all songs with the word “love” in the title across 30,000 songs in your library in under a second? But hey, some folks are never satisfied… ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/33 "2003-10-17T07:02:37Z")
OK, so apparently the DRM wrapper means you _can’t_ play iTunes music files on anything but a computer or an iPod. That doesn’t really set iTunes apart from other services. But you can’t redownload songs for free? That sucks. You can with the new Napster, from what I’ve heard. Speaking of which, although the new Napster uses WMA files instead of AAC (AFAIK), I believe it uses DRM, so I doubt you can play those files on a WMA-savvy CD player either. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/34 "2003-10-17T07:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmason32 \* > \*\* > Perhaps if you learned a bit more about the product, your thread wouldn’t look like blatant astroturfing. \*\* What is astroturfing? ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/35 "2003-10-17T08:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*No, you should back up your music, just like any other important computer file. Luckily, iTunes will easily let you do that, since it can burn data CDs with your music files as well. I imagine Apple doesn’t allow re-downloading to prevent people abusing their bandwidth. > \*\* Actually, you can to any one of the three authorized computers. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/36 "2003-10-17T08:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*What is astroturfing? \*\* [http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon.asp?w=astroturfing](http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon.asp?w=astroturfing) It’s basically a term used to describe people who go around bashing or praising a product while acting like a neutral third party, when in fact they are being paid or have a vested interest in the matter. I didn’t say that cheddar was astroturfing, just that it looked like he was (though I don’t want to reprise the argument - I only bring this up because you asked). ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/37 "2003-10-17T08:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > cmason21 wrote: > > Actually, you can to any one of the three authorized computers. Yeah. I’m sharing my tunes on 2 computers so far (one Mac and one PC). I am not sure which computer will be the third–probably this other G4 Mac I have. (I have too many comptuers, but that’s another story.) If I sell a computer or it breaks down, I can deactivate it and activate another in its stead. So far iTunes works just perfectly for me. Sure, I wish there was more of a selection in the store, but that’s hardly Apple’s fault. They got as many artists signed on as they could; I am sure. And more are added each week. I still consider a commercial CD to be more “real,” but the fact is, I simply can’t afford to buy a whole CD for one song. This usually isn’t a problem for most of my purchases (Sibelius, Jerry Goldsmith, etc.) because everything on the CD is something I’d want. So no use in buying bits and pieces of the music–I want the whole thing–so I’ll just get the CD. So as someone mentioned earlier, iTunes is great for picking an odd piece here and there. So far I’ve bought a few Johnny Cash tunes, a few Warren Zevon tunes, one Blur tune (ordinarily I am not a “Blur” kind of person) and even some Duran Duran and Toby Keith! :eek: No way am I buying all of these CDs. Just a few songs was all that I wanted. And Apple’s store has made it so quick, painless, easy, and fast. And even if I had no interest in the store, the iTunes software is so far the best that I’ve encountered. (And I’ve tried quite a few MP3 programs on the PC side.) I intend to install it on (yet another) PC (that will not be “authorized” to play my purchased music). iTunes is the bomb, man. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/38 "2003-10-17T08:16:04Z")
cmason21? I got demoted. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/39 "2003-10-17T08:17:38Z")
Damn this keyboard. I am having all sorts of problems with it. Sorry, man. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846/40 "2003-10-17T08:23:09Z")
No problem at all. 🙂 I don’t understand why people are bitching so much about iTunes. It can’t be everything to everyone - nothing can - but it seems like people are really reaching for things to bitch about. It is what it is. A well-designed legal music downloading program that also lets you organize your music and burn cds. Are the advantages to a cd? Sure? Are there advantages to iTunes? Sure. Let’s say you get a sudden urge to hear an album at 3:00 am, you can’t really go run down to Tower Records. Let’s say you only want one song off the album and don’t want to pay $15.99 for one song. iTunes might have it for 99 cents. So yeah, iTunes is not the end all be all of anyone’s music solution. But it’s available for those who choose to use it (and you can still use it to organize music and burn cds for free even if you don’t buy music). So instead of looking for anything to bitch about, why not appreciate the FREE software that Apple is sharing with the Windows world? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itunes-music-store-sucks/207846.md?page=3)