# ⟨iu⟩ versus English **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 6, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551 "2024-03-06T20:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/21 "2024-03-07T00:26:56Z")
Yeah, I was going to say: [IU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IU_(singer)) is the (stage) name of a Korean singer. As it happens, she just announced her first ever US tour. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/22 "2024-03-07T00:31:58Z")
I wondered how that’s pronounced, so I looked. IU in Korean is 아이유, which transliterates to Ai Yu. So it’s pronounced with the English names of the letters. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/23 "2024-03-07T02:50:50Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The martial art jiu-jitsu is practically the only familiar word in English with ⟨iu⟩. This invariably gets changed to jujitsu. In fact, that’s correct because the ⟨i⟩ is silent. The former spelling is a relic of an obsolete system of transliterating Japanese. So I think this example helped form the scales over the eyes hiding ⟨iu⟩ from English-speaking readers. Correct, some archaic Japanese spellings persist. But it’s really jujutsu with a u (or technically \*jūjutsu or juujutsu with a long vowel). The Italian is partially a thing where consonants have a different sound before a, o, u than they do before e, i. So if you want a soft /dʒu/ sound, the i keeps it from becoming a hard sound. The Irish language takes this to an extreme, i/e and a/o/u need to be “bookended” around consonants. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/24 "2024-03-07T12:56:23Z")
I just want _giustizia_\* for Liliʻuokalani, Giuliano, Giuseppe, and Mariupol. \*Italian word for justice. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/25 "2024-03-07T13:09:20Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Perhaps ⟨iu⟩ is spelled yu or ju when you want to get the sound you mean? It comes close, but I admit it is not exactly the same. Or “ew” or just plain “u.” I’m assuming the sound in question is /ju/ or /ju:/, given its description as monosyllabic? Or is the question simply why the letter combination “iu” is not popular in English? I’m having difficulty following the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/26 "2024-03-07T13:26:36Z")
Since vowel symbols are used to write semiconsonant/semivowel glides, the digraph ⟨iu⟩ is ambiguous. As a rising diphthong, it’s [ju]. “You.” As a falling diphthong, it’s [iw]. Therein lies one problem. The only word in English with that sound is “eeeww,” an interjection meaning ‘it’s yucky’. That sets up a psychological aversion to the sound. In Ann Taylor’s dialect, it was also heard when she said “This is National Public Radio [niwz].” The reverse digraph ⟨ui⟩ has the same situation in reverse. As a rising diphthong [wi], like “we,” very familiar. As a falling diphthong [uj], totally weird!!\* The Uyghur people pronounce their own name with [uj], but **we** convert it into **[wi]**. \*“weird” starting ironically with the familiar sound. Try saying it [ujrd] for extra uyrdness. That’ll never catch on. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/27 "2024-03-07T13:38:23Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > As a falling diphthong [uj], totally weird!!\* Interesting. I had never noticed that. [uj] exists in Polish and Hungarian, two other languages I’m familiar with (much moreso the former, as it’s the first language I learned), so it’s never been unknown to me. Hell, the [uj] sound is even in my username. Now I realize why it’s difficult to explain the pronunciation of my username to English speakers. I usually spell it out as something like POOY-kaw-mell, but that first syllable looks and sounds, as you said, really weird to an English speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/28 "2024-03-07T14:22:53Z")
Once you’ve gotten that figured out, see if you can teach Americans to pronounce /kjɛwˈbasa/. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/29 "2024-03-07T15:04:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Hell, the [uj] sound is even in my username. Is the Hungarian orthographic “ly” always IPA /j/? Is it ever IPA /ʎ/ – a voiced palatal lateral approximant? The Wikipedia article on the **[voiced palatal lateral approximant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_palatal_lateral_approximant)** gives this Hungarian example (though specifies that it is a dialectal variant): > **Hungarian** > _Northern dialects_ > **lyuk** [ʎuk] ‘hole’ > > Alveolo-palatal. Modern Standard Hungarian has undergone a phenomenon akin to Spanish _[yeísmo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye%C3%ADsmo)_ , merging /ʎ/ into /j/. See [Hungarian ly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_ly) and [Hungarian phonology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology) Hmmm … I guess that link answers my question. And I thought when American Olympics commentators used to pronounce volleyballer Karch Kiraly’s surname as “Ker-RYE” that they were heavily Anglicizing the pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551/30 "2024-03-07T15:18:36Z")
This is pretty close to what Welsh does: «th» when pronounced as in “thin” and «dd» when pronounced as in “this.” What’s interesting is the difficulty English-speaking learners have with this. In their mind, both sounds are the same, so they’re forever pronouncing «dd» incorrectly (i.e. as in “thin”) when first learning. To me, it’s understandable when they given the wrong English «th» value in Welsh, because it has rules in English, but since «dd» in English is /d/, the brain tricks that make people mispronounced it are fascinating. Clearly what happens is they learn, “Aha! «dd» is «th» and «th» is also «th»” as the first step, and then separate the sounds in a later round of learning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iu-versus-english/998551.md?page=1)