# I've Been Happily Married, No Children. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346 "2013-02-15T00:15:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/21 "2013-02-15T02:35:32Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > No, your reason sounds potentially more interesting than those. > > I mostly mean people who have kids, love them, and at least take a part in raising them, but will admit that to do it over again, they’d pass. A few people will admit that and it makes me wonder how many people think it but would never admit it. There is a certain ‘expectation’ these days that parents don’t ever regret having/raising kids - so to admit it is kinda inviting all the arguments tht admitting atheism or homosexuality does (or just the fear of the arguments) - so, yeah - many, I think, will just keep that to themselves to the majority of the world and only admit it to themselves and maybe a spouse. I would have loved to have had ‘our kids’ with simWife - as it is, that was to never be. (I’m not a complete heathen) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/22 "2013-02-15T02:41:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The beauty in this world is that it takes all types. I absolutely couldn’t stand being married. It felt like chattel slavery and I never want to do it again. **However, I knew I needed to do it so that I could find someone whose main qualifications would be to be a great mother and good ex-wife. I did that and it works out beautifully. I love being a father more than anything and try to be good at it. I always wanted kids and saw that as the main point to marriage. If you don’t see it that way, good for you but there are others who only use marriage to have kids responsibly and don’t really care about their spouse outside of that context**. Good God, this is one of the coldest things I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/23 "2013-02-15T02:42:45Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The beauty in this world is that it takes all types. I absolutely couldn’t stand being married. It felt like chattel slavery and I never want to do it again. However, I knew I needed to do it so that I could find someone whose main qualifications would be to be a great mother and good ex-wife. I did that and it works out beautifully. I love being a father more than anything and try to be good at it. I always wanted kids and saw that as the main point to marriage. If you don’t see it that way, good for you but there are others who only use marriage to have kids responsibly and don’t really care about their spouse outside of that context. So you’ll have no problem with your daughters marrying guys like that? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/24 "2013-02-15T02:43:11Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > Did your ex-wife know of this arrangement beforehand?? If she didn’t, it’s not “responsible” at all. No, I would have stuck with it if circumstances allowed it. However, I knew all about divorce from friends and family beforehand. Hope for the best and plan for the worst is the smartest thing you can do. I am not about sticking with a failed marriage because of other people’s expectations. Marriage doesn’t work in the vast majority of cases including the ones that claim they are happily married to the general public. The real point is to have kids, provide financial support for all involved, contribute to societal stability, and then enjoy your spouse in that order. Most people can’t do all those and the last one is the least important one to everyone else in the world. I just wanted to hit the top ones at least and that is a success. I still like my ex-wife and her family. We spend lots of time together including all major holidays. It was the marriage itself that screwed up a perfectly good relationship but now that it is over, we can focus on the real goal which is raising the kids to the best of our ability. I can honestly say I love being a father and wouldn’t have it any other way. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/25 "2013-02-15T02:57:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > No, I would have stuck with it if circumstances allowed it. However, I knew all about divorce from friends and family beforehand. Hope for the best and plan for the worst is the smartest thing you can do. > > I am not about sticking with a failed marriage because of other people’s expectations. Marriage doesn’t work in the vast majority of cases including the ones that claim they are happily married to the general public. The real point is to have kids, provide financial support for all involved, contribute to societal stability, and then enjoy your spouse in that order. Most people can’t do all those and the last one is the least important one to everyone else in the world. I just wanted to hit the top ones at least and that is a success. > > I still like my ex-wife and her family. We spend lots of time together including all major holidays. It was the marriage itself that screwed up a perfectly good relationship but now that it is over, we can focus on the real goal which is raising the kids to the best of our ability. > > I can honestly say I love being a father and wouldn’t have it any other way. One might think that you are just horrifically bad at expressing yourself unless they have seen your posting history. Changing places during sex with a best freind in college and laughing about it makes you a monster. No matter which way you look at it, it is trickery and not consentual. Marrying to have kids, then divorcing when day to day life isn’t to your taste? Disgusting. You are not a rebel, MAVERICK, nor are you living up to your name. You are a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/26 "2013-02-15T02:59:25Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > One might think that you are just horrifically bad at expressing yourself unless they have seen your posting history. Changing places during sex with a best freind in college and laughing about it makes you a monster. No matter which way you look at it, it is trickery and not consentual. Marrying to have kids, then divorcing when day to day life isn’t to your taste? Disgusting. You are not a rebel, MAVERICK, nor are you living up to your name. You are a sociopath. Well, he does claim to have a family history of sociopathy, so I guess it’s not his fault? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/27 "2013-02-15T03:05:32Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > So you’ll have no problem with your daughters marrying guys like that? That is a good question. I probably would have a problem with some of it but I never cheated on my ex or did any of the other big sins. I was always nice to her family and loved them. It was really just the marriage that screwed it up. My ex is a successful business woman and became quite the feminist over time. I am 2000 miles away from my family and she wanted and mostly succeeded in controlling everything. It was a great lifestyle if your dream is to be an indentured servant to a spoiled rich girl. That wasn’t my thing it turns out. I had to make a break to regain my sense of self and certainly don’t regret it even though the divorce process is painful. I just want my daughters to do whatever they want that makes them happy. They will have the means to do that coming from both sides so I just try to raise them so they are happy and confident. I don’t mention marriage to them because I don’t believe in it as a general rule but if they find someone they are happy with, I am all for it. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/28 "2013-02-15T03:06:01Z")
I’m a parent and I’m going to go with “it doesn’t change everything.” I had our daughter late® in life due to infertility issues. One thing that several of my doctors raised was the importance of doing some on-going life assessment to make sure that one doesn’t feel like a complete failure if the kids never materialize. I think it’s very easy, in that situation, to put everything else on hold, and then YEARS can go by without ever meeting the goal of having children. Only in retrospect do I see how useful that exercise was. I was proud of what I accomplished in my career (I still am, and I still work). I put more effort into making my relationship with my own parents as strong as possible. I pursued hobbies and volunteer opportunities that interested me. I think that was a great foundation for parenthood, because it gives me some perspective on things that have remained constant. So I love being a parent, and obviously it changes a lot of logistics, and your daily routines, but I also find considerable satisfaction in the continuity of those other aspects. It also encourages me to “make time” for some of things that can easily slide with the arrival of a baby. I’ve already identified them as important, so I’ll make the extra effort. Other people have already spoken about the great joy and emotional involvement that kids can bring, so I’ll just say I agree with that too. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/29 "2013-02-15T03:18:35Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > Disgusting. You are not a rebel, MAVERICK, nor are you living up to your name. You are a sociopath. That’s not exactly [breaking news](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6931360&postcount=2). ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/30 "2013-02-15T03:21:58Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > That’s not exactly [breaking news](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6931360&postcount=2). Missed that gem. One can only hope he crosses the wrong person. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/31 "2013-02-15T03:35:45Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > That’s not exactly [breaking news](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6931360&postcount=2). Some of you have better memory than Google. They should hire you. That was a joke BTW but not an especially good one. It is true that I don’t get the desire to get married if you don’t want to have kids however. That is the whole point. It is an arbitrary legal and social custom set up explicitly for that. The love aspect is recent invention. If you like each other that much and don’t want to have kids, just go to a lawyer and draw up some contacts about you really agree to rather just go with boilerplate marriage contact that wasn’t ever intended for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/32 "2013-02-15T03:44:08Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I absolutely couldn’t stand being married. However, I knew I needed to do it so that I could find someone whose main qualifications would be to be a great mother and good ex-wife. I always wanted kids and saw that as the main point to marriage. If you don’t see it that way, good for you but there are others who only use marriage to have kids responsibly and don’t really care about their spouse outside of that context. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > I still like my ex-wife and her family. It was the marriage itself that screwed up a perfectly good relationship but now that it is over, we can focus on the real goal which is raising the kids to the best of our ability. I’m confused by these two seemingly conflicting posts. In the first one, you say that, in your eyes, marriage is only a vehicle to responsibly raise children and that love for the spouse is relatively immaterial. But in the second, you say that the relationship that you formed with the woman that you chose specifically (and only) in order to have children with was ruined by the fact that you married her. But wasn’t marriage the only reason she was in your life? And if the “real goal” is raising the kids to the best of your abilities-irrespective of marriage, why even get married in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/33 "2013-02-15T03:45:20Z")
So you are socially conscious enough to be married when your kids are born, and that is enough? The monetary obligation is what is important hence the marriage contract for the birth according to you? Why not contract someone to bear your children and take care of them emotionally. At least then the other party is in on your game. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/34 "2013-02-15T03:46:57Z")
> [@keturah](#): > > You are not a rebel, MAVERICK, nor are you living up to your name. You are a sociopath. Have we met? I think I would have recalled that. I do appreciate your opinion and understand why you think the things you do. However, I don’t think I am nearly as bad bad as you think I am. I am pretty nice in person and tend to treat people quite well but I am not good at PR at all. All of those stories are true but paint me in the worst light possible simply because I feel guilty about them at some level but you live and learn and move on. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/35 "2013-02-15T04:05:41Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Have we met? I think I would have recalled that. I do appreciate your opinion and understand why you think the things you do. However, I don’t think I am nearly as bad bad as you think I am. I am pretty nice in person and tend to treat people quite well but I am not good at PR at all. All of those stories are true but paint me in the worst light possible simply because I feel guilty about them at some level but you live and learn and move on. I’m sure you are very charming in person. You’re a national treasure, like the Hope Diamond. By which I mean you should be kept under heavy guard. PS. Nobody believes you about the murder thing being a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/36 "2013-02-15T04:10:20Z")
I married late in life and became an instant grandfather. While I do enjoy the kids I do feel I made the right choice not to have any of my own. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/37 "2013-02-15T04:14:53Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m confused by these two seemingly conflicting posts. In the first one, you say that, in your eyes, marriage is only a vehicle to responsibly raise children and that love for the spouse is relatively immaterial. But in the second, you say that the relationship that you formed with the woman that you chose specifically (and only) in order to have children with was ruined by the fact that you married her. But wasn’t marriage the only reason she was in your life? > > And if the “real goal” is raising the kids to the best of your abilities-irrespective of marriage, why even get married in the first place? No, having kids was the real reason for getting married but not the reason we were together for 10 years before that and married for 3 of those. I liked her just fine and still do. It was the living together and the societal expectations of marriage that screwed the whole thing up. There is a lot of crap that women in particular expect when they are married that they didn’t before. It turns it into a form of slavery for the modern American male with few benefits outside of having kids and increased financial stability. Once the final child is born, you have to make a decision whether you really want to do this for the next 50+ years and the answer probably not in the vast majority of cases. All of my male friends are happily married in public and can’t stand it privately. My long-term female friends call me crying at all hours asking me if they should leave and if they can stay with me for a weekend sometime. The next day, they post on Facebook how awesome their husband is. I believe good marriages can happen somewhere but people have lied and contradicted themselves so many times in my life that I think I have the right to be skeptical of any such claims. All I know is that I am much happier being a good single father with a good ex-wife raising two kids on a customizable but rotating schedule. We can both switch off duties and do whatever we want individually with no other people involved. It is pretty ideal if you pull it off. It is almost like a cheat code to life. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/38 "2013-02-15T04:16:41Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > No, your reason sounds potentially more interesting than those. > > I mostly mean people who have kids, love them, and at least take a part in raising them, but will admit that to do it over again, they’d pass. A few people will admit that and it makes me wonder how many people think it but would never admit it. I think it often, then hate myself for it. If we didn’t have children, we would have more money, more time, and the opportunity to travel whenever we wanted, go out whenever we wanted, and do whatever we wanted without consideration of what to do with our kids. Their needs always come first, they are exasperating, stressful, needy, stubborn, and unpredictable. But, dammit I love them. The older they get the more I see them as little autonomous human beings, who, despite me, will be who they are and I love getting to know them. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/39 "2013-02-15T04:19:34Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Have we met? I think I would have recalled that. I do appreciate your opinion and understand why you think the things you do. However, I don’t think I am nearly as bad bad as you think I am. I am pretty nice in person and tend to treat people quite well but I am not good at PR at all. All of those stories are true but paint me in the worst light possible simply because I feel guilty about them at some level but you live and learn and move on. Love it! The ‘aww, shucks ma’am, I didn’t mean it!’ defense. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346/40 "2013-02-15T04:23:45Z")
> [@colander](#): > > PS. Nobody believes you about the murder thing being a joke. The murder thing is a good reason to believe he is not a sociopath. A true sociopath would not want to murder someone for the sake of it because they would feel nothing. On the other hand, wondering what killing someone would feel like seems a perfectly reasonable thing to think to me. It would not be a good reason to kill someone but he does not suggest that either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-been-happily-married-no-children/650346.md?page=3)