# I've changed my mind about George W. Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313 "2017-10-19T19:10:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/1 "2017-10-19T19:10:07Z")
W gave a speech where, without mentioning names, he implied that Trump had us on the wrong track. He condemned bigotry and fabrication of news. > **[George W. Bush Takes Veiled Shots At Trump: ‘Bigotry Seems Emboldened’](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/w-bush-veiled-shots-trump-bigotry-seems-emboldened)** > > After years of careful silence regarding his successors, former President George W. Bush took some veiled shots at President Donald Trump Thursday in comments condemning bigotry… So, good for him, and it won’t go unrewarded. I am happy to announce that now, I would indeed piss on him if he was on fire. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/2 "2017-10-19T19:13:40Z")
I can think of half a million civilians, very many women and children - babies, who can’t piss on him because he caused them to be literally shredded to death. 500,000. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/3 "2017-10-19T19:17:27Z")
I’ve generally liked George W Bush, the person, even though he was a terrible president. The assessment of his being a terrible president won’t change - he’s one of the worst in American history. In fact, the Bush presidency probably did a lot to make the Trump presidency possible. He was the leader of the GOP at a time when it used fears of terrorism and jingoistic nationalism as a political weapon. He left future presidents a government (an Executive) that could operate with increased secrecy and with increased surveillance powers. His policies routed the white middle class, which made them bitter by the millions. The incompetence of his administration destroyed faith in governmental institutions and even American democracy itself. His disastrous wars led to more terrorism, not less of it, and it destabilized not only the Middle East but also left Europe with a mass migration / refugee problem that has led to nationalism not seen since before WWII. He should be speaking, he should be opposing Trump aggressively. He owes us that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/4 "2017-10-19T19:40:02Z")
I haven’t changed my mind quite yet. Should Trump’s body count begin to approach GWB’s, I’ll reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/5 "2017-10-19T19:51:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He should be speaking, he should be opposing Trump aggressively. He owes us that. Yes, right after the Mother of All Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/6 "2017-10-19T19:53:48Z")
I think giving him credit for speaking up doesn’t automatically make you a GWB fanboy. It’s more than most Gutless Opportunists Party congress people have done to date. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/7 "2017-10-19T19:55:43Z")
I was beginning to worry he had died or something. Old Dub got tired if painting his feet, I guess! Oh, for the days of his plain old dumbassery! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/8 "2017-10-19T19:56:34Z")
Can’t they both be shitty presidents? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/9 "2017-10-19T19:57:24Z")
tbh, I’m knocked a little sideways by GWB criticising fabrication and fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/10 "2017-10-19T20:06:27Z")
I’ve stated before, even during Bush’s presidency, that I don’t think he was, personally, a bad man. He was just incompetent enough to be easily manipulated by bad men. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/11 "2017-10-19T20:28:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve stated before, even during Bush’s presidency, that I don’t think he was, personally, a bad man. He was just incompetent enough to be easily manipulated by bad men. I agree and would add he was not qualified to be POTUS. But most of the evil belonged to the puppet master Cheney and Cheney’s circle. Bush seem like an OK guy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/12 "2017-10-19T20:31:07Z")
I disliked bush’s policies, and the wars that were started under his administration, but I’ve always said, if he showed up at my door, I’d say, “Welcome to my home, President Bush, can I get you anything to drink?”. Obviously, I’d welcome Obama, should he grace my domicile with his presence, and Bill Clinton too, assuming he brings the good weed. Trump, I’d tell to get the fuck off my property. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/13 "2017-10-19T20:31:45Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > tbh, I’m knocked a little sideways by GWB criticising fabrication and fake news. Yeah. Everything the Republicans are doing today is a continuation of what they started back in the Clinton admin. They got here one day at a time. W helped (and I don’t even care if he’s a “bad man”. Why would I? How is that relevant in an assessment of his life’s work?) ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/14 "2017-10-19T20:42:02Z")
GWB should never have been president, and on his more lucid days he probably realizes that. But he was corrupt, in that he allowed himself to be the instrument of a truly evil cabal that invented and promoted a horrible lie that led to a death toll that is now approaching seven figures, in the process denegrating fact-based policy and reporting (recall Rove’s “We make our own reality”), which paved the way for the fantasists who believe nothing because it is true, but everything they are told. This speech was a very small concession to decency. I would be more impressed if there were more to come. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/15 "2017-10-19T20:56:16Z")
I’ve cut him some slack lately also. I think most of the bad decisions were from the assholes Cheyney and Rumsfeld. W just seemed to let them run the place. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/16 "2017-10-19T21:02:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I agree and would add he was not qualified to be POTUS. But most of the evil belonged to the puppet master Cheney and Cheney’s circle. Bush seem like an OK guy. While I agree in general, the Buck has to stop somewhere, and it has to stop at the president. If you’re president of the Ufuckingnited states, by god have a backbone! If not then, when? Likewise, I blame no one but McCain for Palin. No matter what the party said, no matter how much they pushed, he could have, and should have, said no. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/17 "2017-10-19T21:07:24Z")
I’m no fan of Bush’s Presidency, nor of his passive willingness to be the tool of men I consider to be war criminals. But he does possess basic decency, and I liked his speech today enough to use one of its lines as my sig. (For those with signatures turned off: “Self-correction is the secret strength of freedom.” ) I tend to assume that he worked with a speechwriter, but do give him credit for speaking up publicly at least to this extent. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/18 "2017-10-19T21:13:07Z")
I’m happy to praise him when he does something good, as this appears to be. But that doesn’t change the bad shit he did, and I’m not going with the “he was misguided by his Cabinet and VP” idea. He was the president. He made the decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/19 "2017-10-19T21:15:45Z")
Well, good for him. But I wish people of his ilk would start saying and doing the right thing while they are IN positions power, not after. Another example would be Robert McNamara. Great that he came to the realizations he did, but it was a bit too late to help. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313/20 "2017-10-19T21:29:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve stated before, even during Bush’s presidency, that I don’t think he was, personally, a bad man. He was just incompetent enough to be easily manipulated by bad men. Yeah, I always saw him as more of an amicable buffoon than anything else. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-changed-my-mind-about-george-w-bush/799313.md?page=2)