# I've decided polygamy is an excellent way to raise a family **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218 "2010-10-15T05:53:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/361 "2010-10-21T02:06:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > On the contrary. We have bright line legal definitions for what constitutes a child. what they’re capable of consenting to and what they’re responsible for. Actually, even _that’s_ not consistent. Depending on the state and the topic (sex, marriage, working, drinking, driving, crime and punishment) a child may no longer be considered a child legally at 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12… I think there’s been a few kids prosecuted for crimes as adults even younger than that, though I’m not sure offhand. So your “bright line” is actually pretty muddy. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/362 "2010-10-21T02:21:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There are _no_ “Mormon communities that accept polygamy”. The Mormon Church does not allow or accept polygamy. I think we all understand that you are distinguishing the _official_ Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from various splinter groups. But they all share a belief in Joseph Smith’s story. Additionally, they self-identify as LDS or Mormons. Therefore, they are all Mormons, though the official church may not choose to include or acknowledge them. The official LDS church only has the authority to make the rules for the people who are part of and follow the official LDS church, not every human being on earth. They don’t own the word “Mormon” any more than the Catholics own the word “Christian” Therefore it’s entirely legitimate for outsiders, having acknowledged the stance of the official LDS church, to continue to refer to splinter sects as Mormons as well. So obsessing over this isn’t really necessary, especially since the polugamous thing started with the official church and the founding members; it’s not like they _ **never** _ embraced it and it’s some shocking insult to associate polygamy with the official Mormon church at all. Considering how insulted LDS members get when non-Mormon Christians of other faiths assert that Mormons aren’t Christians, even though all of them believe in Jesus Christ, you’d think they would be a little less concerned with perpetrating the same sort of thing on splinter LDS groups. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/363 "2010-10-21T02:26:56Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Sure, maybe. But joining the priesthood and molesting kids isn’t really a good answer to pedophilic tendencies, and likewise, maybe if people have intimacy issues and trust issues and self-esteem issues, they’d be better off working them out with a shrink instead of self-medicating as it were with this kind of relationship. Certainly… but does this damn the priesthood itself? Of course not. Same thing with polygamy. > [@](#): > > but I also think that there isn’t really a compelling reason that I can see to do so, especially when working through it seems to cause so much trouble. Do you really mean to say you can’t see value in working through sexual jealousy, or only that you can’t see value in doing it via entering into a plural marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/364 "2010-10-21T02:35:56Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Actually, even _that’s_ not consistent. Depending on the state and the topic (sex, marriage, working, drinking, driving, crime and punishment) a child may no longer be considered a child legally at 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12… I think there’s been a few kids prosecuted for crimes as adults even younger than that, though I’m not sure offhand. > > So your “bright line” is actually pretty muddy. No. The age of adulthood is 18 in every state. That is the legal age of majority. This is also a quibble utterly without a point on your part. Trafficking in childre is still trafficking in children whether you want to call them children, or make exceptions for really mature and hot 12 year olds or not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/365 "2010-10-21T02:42:20Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I think we all understand that you are distinguishing the _official_ Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from various splinter groups. But they all share a belief in Joseph Smith’s story. Additionally, they self-identify as LDS or Mormons. Therefore, they are all Mormons, though the official church may not choose to include or acknowledge them. The official LDS church only has the authority to make the rules for the people who are part of and follow the official LDS church, not every human being on earth. They don’t own the word “Mormon” any more than the Catholics own the word “Christian” > > Therefore it’s entirely legitimate for outsiders, having acknowledged the stance of the official LDS church, to continue to refer to splinter sects as Mormons as well. So obsessing over this isn’t really necessary, especially since the polugamous thing started with the official church and the founding members; it’s not like they _ **never** _ embraced it and it’s some shocking insult to associate polygamy with the official Mormon church at all. > > Considering how insulted LDS members get when non-Mormon Christians of other faiths assert that Mormons aren’t Christians, even though all of them believe in Jesus Christ, you’d think they would be a little less concerned with perpetrating the same sort of thing on splinter LDS groups. This is pretty much a Chewbacca strategy on your part. You tried to claim that one of them was raised as a regular Mormon, and not one of the polygamous splinter cults. That claim was wrong. Your personal indignation over whether the splinter cults should be called Mormon does not alter the fact that you were wrong in saying this woman was raised in the mainstream LDS church instead of a splinter cult. This whole angle who has the right to call themselves Mormon is just evasive and obfuscatory and irrelevant. By your standard, the FLDS can also call itself Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/366 "2010-10-21T02:47:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No. The age of adulthood is 18 in every state. [Wrong](http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html) again! (Age of consent as low as 14! ) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/367 "2010-10-21T02:48:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I think we all understand that you are distinguishing the _official_ Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from various splinter groups. But they all share a belief in Joseph Smith’s story. Additionally, they self-identify as LDS or Mormons. Therefore, they are all Mormons, though the official church may not choose to include or acknowledge them. The official LDS church only has the authority to make the rules for the people who are part of and follow the official LDS church, not every human being on earth. They don’t own the word “Mormon” any more than the Catholics own the word “Christian”. Except that _you_ keep getting the two faiths mixed up. For the purposes of this thread, you have to get it clear that “\*As a fundamentalist Mormon family, belonging to the Apostolic United Brethren Church,[13] the Browns’ faith does not align with the mainstream Mormon church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Since the practice of polygamy has been officially banned within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since 1890, the Browns have no affiliation with the church.” \* And, “\* the AP Stylebook, which states, “The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other Latter Day Saints churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith’s death.””\* If you do have it clear, and you understand the difference, explain your lines such as "_You keep repeating that they are all Mormons. No one said they weren’t. But you then go on to treat that fact as proof that they must therefore be brainwashed zombies being herded into marriages that they can’t see any alternative to. If that were true, all women raised as Mormons would be brainwashed zombies who could be sucked into plural marriages at the will of any man who asked. Since that’s plainly not the case, your point collapses."_ Here, you clearly were conflating the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with the Brown’s fundie-mormon-sect. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/368 "2010-10-21T02:49:12Z")
A statutory age of consent does not confer legal adulthood. You are conflating two different thinbgs. A 14 year old is still legally a minor, regardless of the age of consent. And, most importantly, a 14 year old is still functionally and emotionally a CHILD, regardless of how mature you imagine them to be. Hiding behind bad age of consent laws does not morally justify trafficking them for sex to their uncles. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/369 "2010-10-21T03:00:48Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Certainly… but does this damn the priesthood itself? Of course not. Same thing with polygamy. No, it doesn’t damn the priesthood itself, and this doesn’t necessarily damn polygamy itself. But what we don’t know is what percentage of people who choose this lifestyle are people who have these sorts of issues that might be best dealt with another way. If there are two kinds of polygamists, the kind who are forced into it and the kind who need professional counseling, how is that a ringing endorsement for it? And IMO we haven’t seen in this thread an example of a polygamist family that doesn’t fit into one of those two categories. > [@](#): > > Do you really mean to say you can’t see value in working through sexual jealousy, or only that you can’t see value in doing it via entering into a plural marriage? No, what I mean is that I don’t see the value in working through it by putting oneself into a situation where the feelings of jealousy, insecurity, and low self-esteem are exacerbated. That seems like an odd strategy to me. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/370 "2010-10-21T03:19:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Great site: > [http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html](http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html) > > Note the Brown’s Chruch is included. And here’s a sampling of what that terrific site has to say about the Brown’s church: > [@](#): > > A majority are members of the Apostolic United Brethren, also known as the Allred Group, which adheres to a fundamentalist version of Mormonism that includes plural marriage – which the sect only sanctions between consenting adults. > [@](#): > > Aaron Bronson, an AUB representative who serves on the Utah Safety Net Committee, said not all those who live in Rocky Ridge practice polygamy or belong to the group. > [@](#): > > Bronson, the AUB member, said the community’s experience has been that not all children born and raised in Fundamentalist Mormon or polygamous families follow the religion as adults. > > “It’s obvious that just because someone is born with a certain background doesn’t determine all the choices they make in their life,” he said. > [@](#): > > Worried that they are being tarred “with the same brush” that is tainting the Fundamentalist LDS Church, another polygamous sect is speaking out about its beliefs. > > The Bluffdale-based Apostolic United Brethren issued a statement from its leadership on Tuesday, distancing itself from the southern Utah-based FLDS Church. The AUB said polygamy is one of its basic tenets, but said it strongly differs in many beliefs from the FLDS Church that has come under scrutiny lately. > > “We are, and always have been, wholly opposed to abuse and oppression of any kind, and we feel it our duty to promptly report any suspected abuse to the proper law enforcement authorities,” AUB leaders said in the statement. > > “We do not encourage or permit ‘child-bride’ marriages or arranged marriages. Instead, it is a fundamental principle of our faith that it is the sacred privilege of all, male and female, when they are adequately mature, to choose whom they will marry. Forced, arranged, or assigned marriages are not a part of our belief or practice.” > [@](#): > > While other polygamous groups have maintained a low-profile, the AUB has been surprisingly open about its beliefs. In 1998, Owen Allred called a news conference to denounce abuses within polygamy. He also wrote letters to newspapers and the Utah Legislature to praise efforts to raise the marriage age in the state from 14 to 16. He pledged the group would adhere to all laws - with the exception of the practice of polygamy. > [@](#): > > Mount Pleasant, Sanpete County - The Apostolic United Brethren. Who are they? Few people have ever heard of them - let alone what they believe. The AUB is a polygamist group - and its members are quick to add, they are nothing like Warren Jeffs and the FLDS. > [@](#): > > But Drew Briney, an attorney who is helping the AUB with the land deal, says there will be no compound, no guard towers, no walls and gates and no temple. He says other than the practice of polygamy; the AUB has little in common with the FLDS. In fact, he says the AUB cutoff contact with the FLDS 60-years ago. > [@](#): > > Mary and Jane are both married to one AUB community member, a middle-age man who is something of a real-life equivalent of Bill Henrickson, the character in HBO’s series “Big Love” who lives in the Salt Lake City suburbs with his three wives, seven kids and ever-mounting bills. > > Over dinner at a suburban seafood restaurant, Jane and Mary jointly make fun of their husband while he good-naturedly laughs at their quips. The women brush off questions about jealousy between them by saying he isn’t worth fighting over, but they later expound on the Mormon principle of building large families on Earth that later can be replicated in heaven. > > The family explains the mechanics of their lives: The two wives have houses next door to one another. (Jane jokingly complains that Mary has the better lawn.) The husband, who asked not to be identified, spends three nights each week with each wife and family; they rotate every other week on who gets the fourth night. > > The family grows somber when they discuss allegations that abuses are inexorably linked to polygamy. They go to pains to say their community strongly discourages marrying before the age of 18. Mary is visibly proud when she tells that one of her sons discovered a man in the community was abusing an underage girl and went to police with the information. > > “Bottom line,” she says, “if you wake up a 13-year-old girl in the middle of the night and marry her off to a man 20 years older than her, that’s abuse. Absolutely.” > > It’s families like these that polygamy advocates hold up when they make their most frequent argument: decriminalization. They say that if the fear of prosecution is removed, polygamous groups could stop living in seclusion and secrecy, the very conditions that often enable many of the alleged abuses. Even more, they would then feel less fear about going to authorities to turn in abusers within their ranks. > [@](#): > > **The Apostolic United Brethren community** , whose members are scattered throughout Salt Lake City suburbs such as Eagle Mountain, _ **is largely considered by authorities and even several polygamy critics like Llewellyn to be a group in which abuse is neither rampant nor tolerated.** _ > [@](#): > > Plural marriage is popular in concept, maybe even fodder for male fantasy, but, Allred says, it is ‘‘very difficult.’’ He says 80% of the men in his church choose monogamy. > > ‘‘It takes twice as good a man to have two wives as it does to have one,’’ says Allred, the father of 23 grown children. ‘‘If you have three wives, it takes five times as good a man to do it – if you are going to have harmony in your family.’’ > > His Apostolic United Brethren church soon may require its male members to prove financial and moral responsibility before entering into plural marriage. > > It’s feared that among the congregation such an idea is tantamount to blasphemy. To thousands of fundamentalist Mormons, plural marriage is a God-given right and a key into the highest chambers of heaven. > > ‘‘Oh, they’re not going to like it, not one bit,’’ Allred says of his plan. > > ‘‘But what too many of them don’t understand is this: There are more men damned for trying to live celestial marriage than there will ever be saved.’’ > [@](#): > > A team of child- and spouse-abuse experts from the Utah Attorney General’s Office have met with members of the Apostolic United Brethren, marking a groundbreaking summit between the state’s top law-enforcement agency and Utah’s second largest polygamist group. > > Atty. Gen. Jan Graham heralded Sunday’s meeting as the first cooperative effort aimed at crime victims within Utah’s polygamous communities, a faction of society that largely has operated outside the purview of authorities since Utah outlawed polygamy in 1890. > > `Our focus is the victims, and if we are serious about trying to help them, then this is what has to happen,'' Graham said on Monday. `This is what we have planned to do in every single polygamous community . . . one way or another. Either with their blessing or not.‘’ > > Church leader Owen Allred at the Bluffdale-based Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) welcomed the chance to educate their congregation about sexual, child and spousal abuse. Allred and other church leaders sought to assure state officials that abuses recently publicized in other polygamist groups were not happening within AUB. And Wiki, under “Allegations of wrongdoing” against the AUB: > [@](#): > > According to one former member, attorney John Llewellyn, “plural wives [of AUB men] are sent into nearby Hamilton to apply for welfare as single mothers. The informant reported that welfare checks are often taken directly to the priesthood leaders.”[1] From their[press release](http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/2008/05/utah-based-polygamous-group-makes.html) > [@](#): > > 1. We do not encourage or permit ‘child-bride’ marriages or arranged marriages. Instead, it is a fundamental principle of our faith that it is the sacred privilege of all, male and female, when they are adequately mature, to choose whom they will marry. Forced, arranged, or assigned marriages are not a part of our belief or practice. > > 2. We try to encourage our people to take care of their own needs and to entirely avoid any reliance upon the government. Though there are some members of our faith who may have received government assistance, they are encouraged to become self-sustaining as soon as possible. Our teachings are to be honorable in all our financial dealings which includes full payment of all required taxes as well as avoiding debt. > > In summary, we do not support abuse of any kind, and feel that the perpetrator, whether it be an individual, a group, or a government, ought to be held accountable for perpetrating abuse. We believe in being honest in our financial dealings and in providing for our own people. We are appreciative of this good country in which we are allowed to worship Almighty God and we willingly pay our taxes so that these and other freedoms may be enjoyed by all. We do not condone underage, assigned, or incestuous relationships. We abhor compulsion and oppression in all its forms and support those laws that seek to properly address these issues. Well, there you have it. The DrDeth-approved website’s words on the Brown church. Scary! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/371 "2010-10-21T03:22:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > A statutory age of consent does not confer legal adulthood. You are conflating two different thinbgs. A 14 year old is still legally a minor, regardless of the age of consent. Nice try. Age of consent to sex, so if the state says a 14 year old can say yes to sex, who the hell are you to say she can’t? And that’s what we’re talking about: sex. And you claimed there was a bright legal line, and you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/372 "2010-10-21T03:25:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Here, you clearly were conflating the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with the Brown’s fundie-mormon-sect. Nope. Janelle was not raised in the AUB or any other poly-friendly version of Mormon, and her entry into plural marriage caused big, painful rifts between her and her similarly non-poly-friendly Mormon family and friends. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/373 "2010-10-21T03:25:47Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Nice try. Age of consent to sex, so if the state says a 14 year old can say yes to sex, who the hell are you to say she can’t? And that’s what we’re talking about: sex. So you think it’s ok for a 40-year-old to have sex with a 14-year-old? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/374 "2010-10-21T03:55:43Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > So you think it’s ok for a 40-year-old to have sex with a 14-year-old? I’m really tired of this, although you haven’t been so much the perpetrator. I pointed out that the definition of “child” was fluid. Dio said it was fixed. I provided proof that the law itself disagrees. I was saying NOTHING about WHO she agrees to sex with. Ask Hawaii, where 14 isthe age of consent, if that applies to a 14 year old agreeing to sex with a 40 year old. For the record: not as a rule. But if a 14 year old in Hawaii decides she wants to, evidently the law says she can. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/375 "2010-10-21T04:22:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Nope. > > Janelle was not raised in the AUB or any other poly-friendly version of Mormon, and her entry into plural marriage caused big, painful rifts between her and her similarly non-poly-friendly Mormon family and friends. According to you & her, not according to the various cites. I already listed everything found under her, which includes several contradictatory statements. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/376 "2010-10-21T04:25:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Nice try. Age of consent to sex, so if the state says a 14 year old can say yes to sex, who the hell are you to say she can’t? And that’s what we’re talking about: sex. And you claimed there was a bright legal line, and you were wrong. No, we were talking about legal status of adulthood. Do you actually think it’s ok to fuck 14 year olds, yes or no? Don’t give me any horsehit about some ass-backwards consent statutes, I’m asking whether you think it’s morally ok for adults to fuck 14 year olds. Can a 14 year old give valid and informed consent to be a 50 year old man’s 5th “wife?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/377 "2010-10-21T04:28:01Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I’m really tired of this, although you haven’t been so much the perpetrator. > > I pointed out that the definition of “child” was fluid. Dio said it was fixed. I provided proof that the law itself disagrees. > > I was saying NOTHING about WHO she agrees to sex with. Ask Hawaii, where 14 isthe age of consent, if that applies to a 14 year old agreeing to sex with a 40 year old. > > For the record: not as a rule. But if a 14 year old in Hawaii decides she wants to, evidently the law says she can. You’re avoiding the question. Do you personally believe it’s EVER ok for a 40 year old to fuck a 14 year old, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/378 "2010-10-21T04:37:04Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And here’s a sampling of what that terrific site has to say about the Brown’s church: > And Wiki, under “Allegations of wrongdoing” against the AUB > > From their press release > > Well, there you have it. The DrDeth-approved website’s words on the Brown church. > > Scary! Aaron Bronson, an AUB representative …, \*said \* Bronson, the AUB member, _said_ The … Apostolic United Brethren _issued a statement from its leadership on … The AUB said …In 1998, Owen Allred called a news conference_ to denounce …But Drew Briney, an attorney who is helping the AUB with the land deal, \*says \*…From their _press release_ Like I said, little is _known_ of them. They have made some interesting \*statements \*and _claims_, and like I said, they do not seem to be as bad as the FLDS- with whom they were afilated, but apparently no longer are. You don’t have a problem with this? _According to one former member, attorney John Llewellyn, “plural wives [of AUB men] are sent into nearby Hamilton to apply for welfare as single mothers. The informant reported that welfare checks are often taken directly to the priesthood leaders.”[1]_ Welfare fraud- and no control over their own funds? Still, it is good to see that the AUB is no FLDS, despite their former close association. Umm, no Stoid, actually in HA the Age isn’t normally 14, your cite is rather bad. wiki “The age of consent in Hawaii is 16 years old. There is however a close in age exemption which allows those aged 14 and 15 to consent to sex with those less than five years older”. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/379 "2010-10-21T06:30:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > According to you & her, not according to the various cites. I already listed everything found under her, which includes several contradictatory statements. From whom? I don’t recall seeing anything but “sources” for Star magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218/380 "2010-10-21T06:31:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, we were talking about legal status of adulthood. > > Do you actually think it’s ok to fuck 14 year olds, yes or no? Don’t give me any horsehit about some ass-backwards consent statutes, I’m asking whether you think it’s morally ok for adults to fuck 14 year olds. Can a 14 year old give valid and informed consent to be a 50 year old man’s 5th “wife?” I’ll give you what I like. The only reason the topic arose was because you made the false assertion that the definition of child was fixed. You were wrong. Again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-decided-polygamy-is-an-excellent-way-to-raise-a-family/557218.md?page=20)