# I've had a mighty bad day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294 "2005-02-09T23:20:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/41 "2005-02-10T19:26:27Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > 41 shots is excessive, they shot to kill. Here in my town, they have something to effect of “shoot to hurt, not kill” to slow someone down. I don’t think that would have been out of the question, obviously for trigger-happy cops, it is. Really? What town is that? I have never heard of any law enforcement agency that recommends using shooting firearms “to hurt, not to kill.” Now, I readily concede that there are plenty of guidelines for the use of non-lethal measures like tasers, foam, and pepper spray. I’m not talking about that. I want to know what jurisdiction advises their officers to use their firearms to “hurt, not kill.” I’ve never heard of such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/42 "2005-02-10T19:27:10Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > Here in my town, they have something to effect of “shoot to hurt, not kill” to slow someone down. No, they do not. If this is what they are saying, then it’s just PR crap. In reality, when an officer makes the decision to fire his gun at a person, he’s prepared to kill that individual. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/43 "2005-02-10T19:31:44Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > 41 shots is excessive, they shot to kill. Here in my town, they have something to effect of “shoot to hurt, not kill” to slow someone down. I don’t think that would have been out of the question, obviously for trigger-happy cops, it is. Pink, this is where people are arguing with you. If you fire your weapon, you’re shooting to stop the person, to put them down. There is no such thing as shooting to hurt, or shooting to slow someone down, that’s Hollywood. You shoot to stop, and you shoot until that person is stopped. You don’t fire one shot, or maybe two, that’s the way to piss someone off and let them gun your ass down. Diallo got shot at 41 times because there were multiple officers all with 10 shots in their guns shooting at the same time. It takes almost no time to fire off 10 shots, and when you think a guy is ready to shoot you, you fire them off. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/44 "2005-02-10T19:37:36Z")
So, you’ve had bad experiences with police officers, and that equals “all cops are bad and wrong all the time”? I’ve had bad experiences with police, too - every time I get stopped by a traffic cop, I get attitude and rudeness when I am not rude to them first. I still think that they are mostly good people trying their best to do a very difficult, mostly thankless job. Are there bad cops? Do they make mistakes? Of course. They’re only human. Do you have any realistic suggestions on how they can do a better job, and make fewer mistakes? One suggestion I would make is that an impartial, knowledgeable outside agency would be more believable, in my opinion, than the police investigating themselves in these kinds of incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/45 "2005-02-10T19:53:36Z")
My rant was about a racist asshole who said the kid in LA and Amadou Diallo deserved what they got. I’ve never met a cop who seemed like a normal person. I’ve only met the barely-educated, authoritative ones. It’d be nice to think there are good ones out there, but I haven’t seen much evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/46 "2005-02-10T20:00:52Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > My rant was about a racist asshole who said the kid in LA and Amadou Diallo deserved what they got. It got sort of buried in the anti-police stuff. The kid was a stupid young kid who put himself in a situation to die, much like driving off a cliff. Did he deserve death? No, but that doesn’t mean it’s all the cops fault. Diallo was one unlucky guy, wound up in a very tense situation and had the misfortune of reacting in the worst possible way. He didn’t deserve to die, but that doesn’t mean it’s all the cops fault either. Anyone who says these people deserve to die is a shithead of the highest degree. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/47 "2005-02-10T20:07:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Pink, this is where people are arguing with you. If you fire your weapon, you’re shooting to stop the person, to put them down. There is no such thing as shooting to hurt, or shooting to slow someone down, that’s Hollywood. You shoot to stop, and you shoot until that person is stopped. You don’t fire one shot, or maybe two, that’s the way to piss someone off and let them gun your ass down. You’re probably right on that one, it most likely is a PR thing to keep people quiet, I’ve just heard it a lot on local news. And I understand that not everyone is a marksman and there will be mistakes. I just don’t understand why they felt the need to have multiple officers unloading their weapons into this guy. I don’t understand completely, and I’ve admitted that, I just think it was excessive and unfortunate and I thought the whole reason they created other non-lethal weapons was for situations like this. I just hope that you never find yourself on the wrong end of this situation. It would be very unfortunate if someone got shot due to a traffic stop when they were reaching for their wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/48 "2005-02-10T20:13:35Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > I just hope that you never find yourself on the wrong end of this situation. It would be very unfortunate if someone got shot due to a traffic stop when they were reaching for their wallet. Yes, it would. This is why the police want you to put your hands on the steering wheel in plain sight and not reach for anything until you are instructed to by an officer. If Diallo had obeyed the officer’s instructions that night, he’d more than likely be alive today. Remember, a jury of 12 ordinary men and women like you and I heard all the evidence on that shooting and eventually determined that the police did not act inappropriately. In my mind, that trumps any second-guessing by people who do not have access to all the facts. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/49 "2005-02-10T21:08:53Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > I just hope that you never find yourself on the wrong end of this situation. It would be very unfortunate if someone got shot due to a traffic stop when they were reaching for their wallet. The problem is that the police could end up on the wrong end of that situation as well and are far more like to do so. What if Diallo did have a gun and the police had waited until he drew it? What if two had gotten killed? Would you like to tell their families, “Well, sorry but it’s better that officers die than suspects making suspicious moves.”? My brother is police officer and he’s, thankfully, only had to draw his gun once. Some people told him that a man on the train was showing off his gun. My brother had to go in with his gun drawn, he didn’t know what this guy would do. Fortunatly the guy didn’t make a sudden grab for his gun and things were resolved peacefully. In fact it turned out to be a pellet gun. But how was my brother to know? If he had pulled it, how could he make that determination in less than a second where his life and the life of others are on the line? Watch “Cops” sometimes. Suspects do really stupid stuff. The police say “Stop” and the make all sorts of rash reactions. Many of these situations wouldn’t happen if people would just listen to the officers. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/50 "2005-02-10T21:33:53Z")
Diallo’s case was a tragedy because the poor bastard wasn’t doing anything wrong. And people that aren’t doing anything wrong shouldn’t be shot dead in front of their house for grabbing a smoke. By anyone. That’s not to say that I think the cops should have been prosecuted for murder. Why? Because there was no malicious intent. They made a terrible, tragic mistake. And as such I do think they should have been demoted or fired. As a general rule, I believe that if you make a mistake in judgment so severe that it results in someone’s death and you should find a new career path. The 13 year old in the OP? 13 year old kids shouldn’t be shot dead any more than they should be driving a car or fleeing from the cops. He was clearly in the wrong. The parents were wrong for not controlling their child. Looks like they paid the price for their failures. I don’t see a parallel between the two cases, except for the fact that they both involved cops. One was a criminal who provoked his own shooting; the other did nothing wrong except not understand what the cops wanted. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/51 "2005-02-10T21:53:53Z")
> [@Elza B](#): > > Sometimes we need to give up the chase and seek help - and I only say that because you sound very much like me when I’m in one of my deepest lows. When the world starts to seem like everything is wrong and nothing will fix it, it’s time to get help. Please, please call a therapist. Go talk to them for an hour or so a week. Get out all of your fears and frustrations and tears with them. And if that doesn’t help, look for another solution, maybe medication. It really doesn’t _have_ to be like this. Not to take this off topic, but this kind of attitude almost pisses me off more than the actions of the police officers in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/52 "2005-02-10T23:12:37Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Not to take this off topic, but this kind of attitude almost pisses me off more than the actions of the police officers in the OP. You know, I read over that a few times and it didn’t piss me off, still doesn’t, but I see where you’re coming from. If you’re depressed, you’re supposed to take a pill to numb it all away. To what extent is some depression over real things normal? How is it that anyone is happy at all? Is it really all Prozac? I started this thread hoping people would back me up, I guess. I wanted someone to agree with me. I still feel like somehow the point I was trying to make has been missed. Maybe I’m just too sad to be coherent about it. I might be losing it anyway. I got pissy in another thread after a couple of people jumped to conclusions about me. I feel defensive, and I don’t know why. I need some reassurance somewhere, but maybe I’m just wrong about everything and I’m too argumentative and that’s why these things go all awry. I’ve got my problems, sure, but I’m a good person and people do like me for things other than my looks. Really. And I’m sorry I hijacked my own thread. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/53 "2005-02-10T23:18:37Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Yeah, that’s kinda the point. > > I can take care of my own security, thank you very much. I don’t need some government thug with a god complex and an itchy finger to do it for me. Well, I can’t. I neither want a gun nor particularly want to learn to use one, except maybe to skeet-shoot. Are you going to defend me, too? Come to think of it, I wouldn’t want an anarchist with a gun anywhere near my house or me. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/54 "2005-02-10T23:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I can’t. I neither want a gun nor particularly want to learn to use one, except maybe to skeet-shoot. Are you going to defend me, too? How much are you offering? > [@](#): > > Come to think of it, I wouldn’t want an anarchist with a gun anywhere near my house or me. Then hire a private security firm. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/55 "2005-02-10T23:27:36Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > You know, I read over that a few times and it didn’t piss me off, still doesn’t, but I see where you’re coming from. > > If you’re depressed, you’re supposed to take a pill to numb it all away. To what extent is some depression over real things normal? How is it that anyone is happy at all? Is it really all Prozac? > > I started this thread hoping people would back me up, I guess. I wanted someone to agree with me. I still feel like somehow the point I was trying to make has been missed. Maybe I’m just too sad to be coherent about it. > > I might be losing it anyway. I got pissy in another thread after a couple of people jumped to conclusions about me. I feel defensive, and I don’t know why. I need some reassurance somewhere, but maybe I’m just wrong about everything and I’m too argumentative and that’s why these things go all awry. > > I’ve got my problems, sure, but I’m a good person and people do like me for things other than my looks. Really. And I’m sorry I hijacked my own thread. Umm, I mentioned medication because sometimes it _is_ necessary. I was basing it on _my_ experience - I wasn’t pushing meds on people. If I could have handled my own depression with therapy, I would have jumped at it - but even after therapy, I was crying myself to sleep for an hour every night. The anti-depressant was the thing that stopped me from jumping off the fucking Brooklyn Bridge. I wasn’t trying to push you into meds, **Indygrrl** , just saying that it might help to talk to someone about it and look into what might be causing it if the real world’s getting to you that much. I mentioned the meds because that’s what worked for me - I’m no longer on them, but I think I’m here today because I was on them. **Continuity eror** , I’m not sure what kind of ‘attitude’ you think I have, but the depressive nature of her post sounded a lot like how I was in my deepest lows. It’s not an ‘attitude’ of throwing meds at something, it’s an attitude of trying to figure out what’s causing the feelings and finding a solution. E. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/56 "2005-02-10T23:30:49Z")
> [@](#): > > **Bricker** said: > Would it surprise you to learn that NOT ONE POLICE AGENCY OR MILITARY TRAINING PROGRAM, anywhere, teaches “aiming for the leg” as an acceptable technique? > > Why do you suppose that is? Several reasons. In a high adrenaline situation such as one where you’d be drawing your weapon on someone, your accuracy will be reduced thus making it extremely difficult to hit someone in a small extremity, so you go for the center of mass. Stopping power for a gunshot to the leg will not necessiarly end the threat that this person poses to your life. In drawing your weapon you have committed to using deadly force, thus showing that you believe the situation called for it. ‘Shooting to wound’ contradicts the idea that you believed the situation to merit deadly force, in which case you were not justified in drawing your weapon at all. > [@](#): > > **PinkMarabou** said: > So if you got shot in the leg, it wouldn’t stun you or drop you to your knees long enought for the police to detain you? Wow, you must be pretty strong, got steel legs there? So long as a person is conscious and has a gun in their hand, they can fire it and are still a threat to life and limb. > [@](#): > > I was referring to the kid they shot 41 TIMES who was reaching for his wallet. Yes, it’s overkill that they fired 41 times. It’s also not that hard to see how it could happen if there are 4 cops there and all of them have been trained to ‘fire until empty.’ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/57 "2005-02-10T23:41:11Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > You know, I read over that a few times and it didn’t piss me off, still doesn’t, but I see where you’re coming from. > > If you’re depressed, you’re supposed to take a pill to numb it all away. To what extent is some depression over real things normal? How is it that anyone is happy at all? Is it really all Prozac? > \ Depression over real things is usually called situational depression, and it is mostly normal. I mean, who doesn’t get down from life situations like losing your job, death in the family? Even good things like having a baby or getting married cause stress in your life. You just sound overwhelmed to me, but maybe a visit to a doctor wouldn’t be a bad idea if you think it’s more than that. I forgot that this thread was over the people in the OP saying the 13-yo got what he deserved. Jerks. Nobody deserves to die for a stupid mistake - if they did, we’d all be dead. But I agree that the police weren’t all to blame, either - I honestly don’t think that the police involved are bragging to their buddies about killing a 13-yo. It seems more likely that they’ll be seeing a counsellor themselves. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/58 "2005-02-10T23:49:27Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > Why don’t you request that this thread be closed since us non-police officers aren’t allowed an opinion on the matter. I was trying to be respectful of your opinions, but your language is on the edge of insulting and I have no patience for that. > > 41 shots is excessive, they shot to kill. Here in my town, they have something to effect of “shoot to hurt, not kill” to slow someone down. I don’t think that would have been out of the question, obviously for trigger-happy cops, it is. You can opine all you’d like, but if your opinions have no basis in fact, I feel the need to call you on it. If you don’t want to be called on it, it’s best not to address the group with the opinion in question. In fairness, I was responding to your post > [@](#): > > buttonjockey308, so you think that the Seargant you described should have loaded that guy up with say . . . 41 bullets? Did this Seargant lose his life due to the incident? Why would KILLING the man be a better solution than a cop getting injured at work? > > How 'bout this, why don’t the cops just sit in their cars on the side of the road and shoot jay-walkers? Just shoot the people you pull over for having a light out, or going 10 miles over the speed limit. I realize that cops take their lives into their own hands, but they KNOW this and many times wear body armor. With an equally outrageous response. I meant no insult, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/59 "2005-02-10T23:53:32Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > How much are you offering? > > Then hire a private security firm. I don’t have the money. Now what? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294/60 "2005-02-11T00:00:02Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Yes, it’s overkill that they fired 41 times. It’s also not that hard to see how it could happen if there are 4 cops there and all of them have been trained to ‘fire until empty.’ **catsix** I’ve been around firearms instruction most of my adult life, and I’ve never even HEARD of the ‘shoot until empty’ theory. Most instructors will teach you to fire-recompose-fire-recompose-fire and so on until you need to reload. No, what got ahold of the cops in Diallo was the andrenaline of the first shot. Once the first shot was fired, they all acted independently, rather than as a team, which is what got him hit 19 times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-a-mighty-bad-day/289294.md?page=4)