# I've Had Enough of the Clintons (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886 "2008-02-09T02:28:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/1 "2008-02-09T02:28:25Z")
I’m opening this pit thread for those who have seen enough of the Clintons. I voted for him twice, and was glad I did, but I’ve seen enough of Bill Clinton. I would love to see a woman president, but I’ve seen enough of Hillary Clinton. Clinton Clinton Clinton Clinton Clinton blowjob Clinton why didn’t she leave him Clinton Chelsea Clinton Impeached Clinton Lying under oath? Clinton Clinton Whitewater Clinton Can Clinton beat McCain? Clinton $5 Million Clinton Loan Clinton Clinton Clinton Clinton Republican Base Hates the Clintons Universal Heath Care Failed Clinton Clinton Clinton I’ll Promote Her but Not Defend Her Clinton GAH! No more Clinton! I’ve had enough! ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/2 "2008-02-09T02:33:13Z")
I feel your pain. d&r ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/3 "2008-02-09T03:06:32Z")
Yeah, Jesus, ‘Clinton’ is the new ‘Malkovich’. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/4 "2008-02-09T03:17:53Z")
But Clinton got a blo… oh, I see you already had that covered. I agree completely. I am tired of hearing about these people and their endless supply of supermarket tabloid psychodrama, their selfishness, their fraudulence, their emotions, their sex lives, their money, and people’s fascination with all of the above and damn near everything else about them. They were the E! network equivalent of the Kennedys for a self-satisfied decade without any ambition, but that decade is over it’s time for them to just go away already and stop asking everyone to care about what they do. Ugh. That felt good to get off my chest. 😛 I’ve actually spoken to Hillary Clinton and found her perfectly nice and otherwise a very impressive candidate for office. But somehow the Clintonness always comes out. ---
**Author:** ![LadyMack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@LadyMack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadyMack)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/5 "2008-02-09T03:23:01Z")
I was just thrilled when they moved. Until they planned their one-two punch to run the entire country. I’ll happily supply the duct tape for all volunteers. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/6 "2008-02-09T03:41:03Z")
Hear, hear! Loved Bill Clinton as President, Hate Bill Clinton as hopeful future First Husband. Ick. And she’s dishonest and possesses no moral courage, politically. [This video](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/28/080128fa_fact_packer) describes exactly why I cannot stand her. [QUOTE=Marley23] I’ve actually spoken to Hillary Clinton and found her perfectly nice and otherwise a very impressive candidate for office. But somehow the Clintonness always comes out. [/QUOTE] You might (_might_) find [this article about her](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/28/080128fa_fact_packer) interesting. It’s a rather in-depth look at who she really is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/7 "2008-02-09T03:47:56Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] You might (_might_) find [this article about her](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/28/080128fa_fact_packer) interesting. It’s a rather in-depth look at who she really is. [/QUOTE] I did and enjoy that. I thought it laid out a number of good reasons not to vote for her - not that I needed more of them. Just as revealing is a piece they did a few years ago that detailed her name changes - Hillary Rodham to Hillary Rodham Clinton to Hillary Clinton. Showed pretty clearly that she has gone by different names at different points, which is her prerogative of course. But her campaign’s response was something like “She’s never changed anything.” It had a very “Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia” quality. (Like I said, it drives me nuts that they cannot do anything without a million pundits breaking it down and wondering about its significance.) In that light I guess it’s hypocritical of me to say that interviewing her was one of the highlights of my career, but it was. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/8 "2008-02-09T03:57:34Z")
**Shayna** , could you try linking to the video again, please? You linked to the New Yorker article twice. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/9 "2008-02-09T04:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Just as revealing is a piece they did a few years ago that detailed her name changes - Hillary Rodham to Hillary Rodham Clinton to Hillary Clinton. Showed pretty clearly that she has gone by different names at different points, which is her prerogative of course. But her campaign’s response was something like “She’s never changed anything.” It had a very “Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia” quality. [/QUOTE] It’s hardly uncommon for a woman to change her surname after marrying, nor to keep her maiden name and add on her husband’s name. I’ve done it, with no political motive at all. Many women have gone by different names, at different points in their lives. That’s an issue that would never be mentioned about a man running for office, so I think it’s unfair to bring such gender-based social practices into question. Sheesh, it’s not as if she had an alias. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/10 "2008-02-09T04:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] In that light I guess it’s hypocritical of me to say that interviewing her was one of the highlights of my career, but it was. [/QUOTE] Not at all. I’m sure it was pretty cool. [QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Shayna** , could you try linking to the video again, please? You linked to the New Yorker article twice. [/QUOTE] Oh crud. Sorry about that. [Lawrence Lessig enumerates why he supports Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdDzvmY1XPo). ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/11 "2008-02-09T04:53:48Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] And she’s dishonest and possesses no moral courage, politically. [/QUOTE] I’d had quite enough moral courage, politically the last seven years, assuming that’s what it’s called. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/12 "2008-02-09T05:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=MissGypsy] It’s hardly uncommon for a woman to change her surname after marrying, nor to keep her maiden name and add on her husband’s name. I’ve done it, with no political motive at all. Many women have gone by different names, at different points in their lives. [/quote] I may have made this look chauvinistic by not explaining the timing better. She married him in 1975 and stayed Hillary Rodham, then added his name during one of his campaigns for governor (maybe 1982). She ditched her maiden name and started using just Hillary Clinton when she started her Presidential campaign. I don’t care about it one way or another, but these are pretty clearly political moves. > [@](#): > > That’s an issue that would never be mentioned about a man running for office, so I think it’s unfair to bring such gender-based social practices into question. It’s not unfair to observe something a candidate did. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/13 "2008-02-09T05:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I may have made this look chauvinistic by not explaining the timing better. She married him in 1975 and stayed Hillary Rodham, then added his name during one of his campaigns for governor (maybe 1982). She ditched her maiden name and started using just Hillary Clinton when she started her Presidential campaign. I don’t care about it one way or another, but these are pretty clearly political moves. It’s not unfair to observe something a candidate did. [/QUOTE] To observe it is not unfair; to drag such a common social practice into a political arena is unfair, when it is based only on her gender. I reiterate, nobody questions why a male candidate uses one surname or another. As I recall from Bill Clinton’s presidential campaigns, she only started using Hillary Rodham Clinton during his first, but I could be mistaken. ETA: Now that I think about it, I believe she started using all three names after he was in office. And I’m not accusing anyone of chauvinism or misogyny or anything of the sort, so not trying to pick a fight. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/14 "2008-02-09T05:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=MissGypsy] To observe it is not unfair; to drag such a common social practice into a political arena is unfair, when it is based only on her gender. I reiterate, nobody questions why a male candidate uses one surname or another. [/quote] They only have one. Answer me this: if you had a married friend who went by different names that often, wouldn’t you wonder what she was doing? This isn’t like my mother, for example, who goes by her married name but has her maiden name on her bank accounts. This is repeatedly deciding to be called by a different variant of her name. Here’s how the New Yorker covered it - and again, I stress that I found the “it’s a non-issue” comment interesting; it’s not a make-or-break thing. I guess I did miss one change in here: > **[The Lady Vanishes](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/11/the-lady-vanishes-2?currentPage=2)** > > Two biographies search for the real Hillary Clinton. > [@](#): > > Consider the apparently simple but, it turns out, unanswerable question of her name. When she married Bill, at the age of twenty-seven, Clinton pointedly decided to remain Hillary Rodham. According to Bernstein, she had resolved to do this “as a young girl, even before the practice was encouraged by a nascent women’s movement.” He quotes Clinton telling a friend that the choice was a matter of principle: it affirmed that she would continue to be “a person in my own right.” Seven years later, when Bill was in a tough campaign to regain the Arkansas governorship, Hillary changed her mind. Except, she insisted, it wasn’t a change at all. > “I don’t have to change my name,” she declared. “I’ve been Mrs. Bill Clinton. I kept the professional name Hillary Rodham in my law practice, but now I’m going to be taking a leave of absence from the law firm to campaign full-time for Bill and I’ll be Mrs. Bill Clinton.” Hillary remained Mrs. Bill Clinton all the way up to the eve of her husband’s Inauguration as President, at which point she suddenly began introducing herself as Hillary Rodham Clinton. This change, too, she insisted, wasn’t one. “Hillary Rodham Clinton has been the First Lady’s name all along, since 1982,” her press secretary, Lisa Caputo, told the Times, in what was described as a tone of exasperation. “We’re at a loss as to why people think this is something that we’re just trying to change now.” A few weeks ago, the Albany Times-Union reported that Clinton has now dropped “Rodham” from her Presidential-campaign literature, though it still appears on communications from her Senate office. She continues to just be “Hillary Clinton” while running for President. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/15 "2008-02-09T05:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] They only have one. Answer me this: if you had a married friend who went by different names that often, wouldn’t you wonder what she was doing? This isn’t like my mother, for example, who goes by her married name but has her maiden name on her bank accounts. This is repeatedly deciding to be called by a different variant of her name. Here’s how the New Yorker covered it - and again, I stress that I found the “it’s a non-issue” comment interesting; it’s not a make-or-break thing. I guess I did miss one change in here: > **[The Lady Vanishes](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/11/the-lady-vanishes-2?currentPage=2)** > > Two biographies search for the real Hillary Clinton. She continues to just be “Hillary Clinton” while running for President. [/QUOTE] I still disagree. I haven’t seen her waffling on her name, and she only uses her maiden name and her married name in whatever combination suits her. I’ve done the same; I’ve used my maiden name professionally and my married name socially, and I’ve used a combination of both. It’s merely a social convention. It’s her name, and legally, she can use whatever the hell she wants, just as I can. It really isn’t a political statement. And men do have a choice of surnames; if my husband wanted, he could have taken my name when we married. (He’d be crazy, but he could have.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/16 "2008-02-09T06:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=MissGypsy] I still disagree. I haven’t seen her waffling on her name [/quote] I think I just documented that she did. > [@](#): > > and she only uses her maiden name and her married name in whatever combination suits her. I’m not saying it’s deceptive or wrong or anything else. But I do think there’s some reason to think the changes are politically motivated, since they all concide with political campaigns. And even if they aren’t, I think the assertion that “She’s never changed anything” (when she appears to have done precisely that, three times) is kinda typical of how she works. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/17 "2008-02-09T06:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I’m not saying it’s deceptive or wrong or anything else. But I do think there’s some reason to think the changes are politically motivated, since they all concide with political campaigns. And even if they aren’t, I think the assertion that “She’s never changed anything” (when she appears to have done precisely that, three times) is kinda typical of how she works. [/QUOTE] I’m not a big fan of Clinton (mainly because of her political shift to the right). It’s also clear that she’s gone through a number of iterations with her name, and has tried to make it seem like those changes never happened. But this is, it seems, exactly the sort of thing that every politician does. I can barely think of a politician who hasn’t, at one stage or other in his or her career, changed some personal or policy position while insisting that the new position has been their position all along. “Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia” might as well be the motto of the profession of politics, and to single out Clinton for practicing it seems somewhat unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/18 "2008-02-09T06:30:11Z")
I’d say she might be a little more guilty of it than your average politician, but she’s not the only one at all. ---
**Author:** ![Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abby_Emma_Sasha)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/19 "2008-02-09T12:55:59Z")
Well, I have not had enough of the Clintons. I don’t see much difference politically between Hilary and Barack so I am voting for Ms. C for one reason… Bill will be back in the WH. Stay tuned for my new book: My Love Affair With Bill Clinton or I Did Not Inhale That Cigar ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886/20 "2008-02-09T13:59:18Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] You might (_might_) find [this article about her](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/28/080128fa_fact_packer) interesting. It’s a rather in-depth look at who she really is. [/QUOTE] That _was_ a good read. It actually has me disliking her a bit less after reading it. I can see her a bit more sympathetically if a little misguided. Not quite tragic. But still agree with the op. She can be an effective Senator. Keep her there. Maybe without he constant positioning for a future presidential run she can actually be a great Senator. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-had-enough-of-the-clintons-mild/436886.md?page=2)