# I've just discovered the genius of Townes Van Zandt **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 26, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006 "2010-07-26T02:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/1 "2010-07-26T02:39:27Z")
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about music, so I can’t explain why this sublime songwriter escaped my radar for all these years. I’ve heard the name, and I had a vague notion that he was considered by other musicians as the crème de la crème, but I somehow never sought him out. Until, that is, I saw an episode of Elvis Costello’s ‘Spectacle’, in which Elvis and his guests (John Prine, Lyle Lovett and Ray Lamontagne) repeatedly invoked Van Zandt’s gifts and practically deified him. So here I sit wearing out his Greatest Hits CD while wondering how many other Dopers are in the know about TVZ. My favorite songs so far: For the Sake of the Song Tower Song Pancho & Lefty Waiting Around To Die But damn, they’re _all_ magnificent. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/2 "2010-07-26T02:57:56Z")
🙂 Townes Van Zandt was a cousin of mine, on my grandmother’s side. I am always proud to hear of how his music touches people. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/3 "2010-07-26T03:38:39Z")
If one of your favorite songs is Waitin’ Around to Die, then you should watch [this video](http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=jzH9cSxyZqU). It’s from a documentary; first half is Townes interviewing a 79yr old man, then him playing the song. Very genuine; like Townes. I love watching it. You can also check out the album “Live at the Old Quarter” from a show he did in Houston once. Captures how he was pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/4 "2010-07-26T03:52:16Z")
I was turned on to Townes Van Zandt by Butch Hancock, who played a little show in my town in 97, only a few months after Townes passed. Picked up ‘No Deeper Blue’ a few weeks later and was blown away with it. Been a fan ever since. There was a tribute to [Townes on Austin City Limits](http://www.tv.com/austin-city-limits/celebration-of-townes-van-zandt/episode/1124731/summary.html). Worth seeing, I’m not sure if it’s available anywhere though. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/5 "2010-07-26T04:04:59Z")
“Mr. Mud and Mr. Gold” is probably my favorite song of his, but yeah, he was great and Live at the Old Quarter is a must buy if you don’t have it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/6 "2010-07-26T23:22:36Z")
Thanks for the info, guys. I just ordered Live at the Old Quarter from Amazon. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Ritter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ritter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ritter)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/7 "2010-07-27T05:32:30Z")
**Mississippienne!** That is something to be very proud of indeed! ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/8 "2010-07-27T09:08:36Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > 🙂 Townes Van Zandt was a cousin of mine, on my grandmother’s side. I am always proud to hear of how his music touches people. > [@Ritter](#): > > **Mississippienne!** That is something to be very proud of indeed! Tis. Beats by a longshot when I’m in NY and he’s on the juke…“_Oh, you like Townes too…yea, I’m from Texas…oh yea, we’re just like that_…(whatever they think they think Townes acted like).” It’s got a 5-10% chance of success with the ladies. We have an anniversary in Texas once a year for him. South of Houston in Galveston, where the _new_ Old Quarter is located. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/9 "2010-07-27T12:00:11Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > 🙂 Townes Van Zandt was a cousin of mine, on my grandmother’s side. I am always proud to hear of how his music touches people. I forgot to comment on this - way cool. Have you met him? Any stories to share? mmm ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/10 "2010-07-27T12:30:20Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > 🙂 Townes Van Zandt was a cousin of mine, on my grandmother’s side. I am always proud to hear of how his music touches people. Now that you are in NYC (I read the Latvian boyfriend thread in MPSIMS), you should look up Steve Earle, his protege - he lives in Greenwich Village and hangs out at Matt Umanov’s Guitar Shop on Bleecker… ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/11 "2010-07-27T13:20:02Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > > [@Mississippienne](#): > > > > 🙂 Townes Van Zandt was a cousin of mine, on my grandmother’s side. I am always proud to hear of how his music touches people. > > Now that you are in NYC (I read the Latvian boyfriend thread in MPSIMS), you should look up Steve Earle, his protege - he lives in Greenwich Village and hangs out at Matt Umanov’s Guitar Shop on Bleecker… Most of the young singer-songwriters along the Austin/Houston/Nashville Axis of Music were “proteges” of Townes. Steve was one of the many who decided that making unwise lifestyle choices would make them as good a songwriter as Townes–who self-medicated depression with various substances throughout his too-short life. Steve recovered & has continued to write fine songs throughout his career; his recent [Townes](http://steveearle.com/) is a tribute. . Lyle Lovett’s [Step Inside This House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_Inside_This_House) is a collection of covers honoring his heroes & _compadres_ back in folkie days. It also got royalties to some neglected artists–or their survivors. One CD was devoted to songs by Townes (already deceased) & by Walter Hyatt (from the amazing Uncle Walt’s band)–who had died in the Valujet crash. This set of tunes is a great introduction to that lost world. I first saw Townes at Sand Mountain Coffee House, when he performed his newly written, first “serious” song–“Waitin’ Round to Die.” And saw him many times at The Old Quarter–that album is probably the best introduction. His earlier LP’s suffered from cluttered arrangements, although the songs are wonderful. And much of the stuff released after his death is uneven. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/12 "2010-07-27T13:29:17Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > > [@WordMan](#): > > > > > [@Mississippienne](#): > > > > > > 🙂 Townes Van Zandt was a cousin of mine, on my grandmother’s side. I am always proud to hear of how his music touches people. > > > > Now that you are in NYC (I read the Latvian boyfriend thread in MPSIMS), you should look up Steve Earle, his protege - he lives in Greenwich Village and hangs out at Matt Umanov’s Guitar Shop on Bleecker… > > Most of the young singer-songwriters along the Austin/Houston/Nashville Axis of Music were “proteges” of Townes. Steve was one of the many who decided that making unwise lifestyle choices would make them as good a songwriter as Townes–who self-medicated depression with various substances throughout his too-short life. Steve recovered & has continued to write fine songs throughout his career; his recent [Townes](http://steveearle.com/) is a tribute. . > > Lyle Lovett’s [Step Inside This House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_Inside_This_House) is a collection of covers honoring his heroes & _compadres_ back in folkie days. It also got royalties to some neglected artists–or their survivors. One CD was devoted to songs by Townes (already deceased) & by Walter Hyatt (from the amazing Uncle Walt’s band)–who had died in the Valujet crash. This set of tunes is a great introduction to that lost world. > > I first saw Townes at Sand Mountain Coffee House, when he performed his newly written, first “serious” song–“Waitin’ Round to Die.” And saw him many times at The Old Quarter–that album is probably the best introduction. His earlier LP’s suffered from cluttered arrangements, although the songs are wonderful. And much of the stuff released after his death is uneven. Hey \*\*BB \*\*- you know your stuff. If someone were to buy, say, 2 Townes CD’s, what would they be? Is he an album guy or a song guy - if he is more of a song guy, then a Best Of with the right songs can work… I haven’t invested enough time in his stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/13 "2010-07-27T15:00:32Z")
[Be Here to Love Me](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0423853/) is a 2004 documentary on Townes; I really enjoyed it. It’s available on Netflix. _Live at the Old Quarter_ is one of those live albums that really makes you feel like you were there – what a great album. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/14 "2010-07-27T16:55:30Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > We have an anniversary in Texas once a year for him. South of Houston in Galveston, where the _new_ Old Quarter is located. Good times. Really? I’m a texan (in corpus) and a townes fan, and I didn’t know that. When is it? I’ll make it to the next one. (Really kinda emabarassed I didn’t know about this lol) ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/15 "2010-07-27T17:38:35Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > > [@CoolHandCox](#): > > > > We have an anniversary in Texas once a year for him. South of Houston in Galveston, where the _new_ Old Quarter is located. Good times. > > Really? I’m a texan (in corpus) and a townes fan, and I didn’t know that. When is it? I’ll make it to the next one. (Really kinda emabarassed I didn’t know about this lol) Yep, every year since he died. It’s on January 1st (when he died). Thus, I don’t make it as much as I would want to because my plans usually revolve around NYE. I was even in Galveston on NYE one year, planned to go the next day, wanted to go, didn’t go (hangover and football to deal with). Old Quarter in Galveston at 413 20th Street, Galveston, TX 77550. If you’re ever there outside of New Year’s day, it’s a great place for live music regardless. Hurricane Ike almost finished it off, but it’s still hanging in there for now. ---
**Author:** ![StinkyBurrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@StinkyBurrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StinkyBurrito)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/16 "2010-07-27T18:34:06Z")
Also recently discovered him. I learned and have been playing “Lungs” on my guitar. When I hear that song, I knew right away that it was something I wanted to play. Now I can’t stop - I’ve been playing it every day. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/17 "2010-07-27T20:45:12Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Hey \*\*BB \*\*- you know your stuff. If someone were to buy, say, 2 Townes CD’s, what would they be? Is he an album guy or a song guy - if he is more of a song guy, then a Best Of with the right songs can work… > > I haven’t invested enough time in his stuff. I’m not **Bridget Burke** , but I am a big Townes fan, so I’ll take a stab at this. More than either of those two options, I’d say he was a live guy. He could cover a song and make it feel like he’d live it, and a lot of his songs seem (to me, at least) to lose something when other people take them on. The cluttered arrangements that **BB** mentioned and the over-production that marks some of his posthumous releases don’t touch his live recordings, though, and you can get a feel for not only his music, but his rapport with the audience and a little of his personality (the part he showed on stage, at least - Heartworn Highways and Be Here to Love Me would show you more) as well. [Live at the Old Quarter](http://www.amazon.com/Live-Old-Quarter-Houston-Texas/dp/B00197U0MG/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpp_1) (1977) is a great solo showcase, playing both his own songs and a range of covers (Nine Pound Hammer, Cocaine Blues, Who Do You Love). [Rearview Mirror](http://www.amazon.com/Rear-View-Mirror-Townes-Zandt/dp/B000000EXO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1280261937&sr=1-1) is a compilation of live recordings from 1968-1972 that features a second guitarist and a fiddle. If you were going to get just two albums, those are probably the two I’d recommend. There’s some overlap between them, but the additional instruments really make the two performances distinct. His voice and presence really went through some changes over the course of his life. In his later work, there’s a little less laughing and a more palpable sorrow. If you want some contrast between early and late Townes, you could look at [Live at McCabe’s](http://www.amazon.com/Live-Mccabes-Townes-Van-Zandt/dp/B00005Y7FN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1280261434&sr=1-1), [Abnormal](http://www.amazon.com/Abnormal-Townes-Van-Zandt/dp/B00006JKIR/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280262890&sr=1-1), or [Together at the Bluebird Cafe](http://www.amazon.com/Together-Bluebird-Cafe-Steve-Earle/dp/B0001E8D3G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280262809&sr=1-1) with Steve Earle and Guy Clark (all from 1995). That last one is a fantastic album (especially Clark’s Dublin Blues), but it’s not something I’d really call a Townes album. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/18 "2010-07-27T20:47:06Z")
[deleted] ---
**Author:** ![Lethal\_Babydoll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@Lethal\_Babydoll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lethal_Babydoll)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/19 "2010-07-28T16:32:50Z")
One of my favorite songs is Joe d’Urso’s **The Ballad of Townes Van Zandt and Hawkeye Pierce**. It is in fact about the meeting late one night in a bar outside of Austin between Townes and an aged Hawkeye, who has apparently been wandering the U.S. in the years after the Korean War too scarred to return to his beloved home in Maine. Check it out. Great tune, though not by Townes … about him. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006/20 "2010-07-28T18:44:40Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > > [@WordMan](#): > > > > Hey \*\*BB \*\*- you know your stuff. If someone were to buy, say, 2 Townes CD’s, what would they be? Is he an album guy or a song guy - if he is more of a song guy, then a Best Of with the right songs can work… > > > > I haven’t invested enough time in his stuff. > > I’m not **Bridget Burke** , but I am a big Townes fan, so I’ll take a stab at this. More than either of those two options, I’d say he was a live guy. He could cover a song and make it feel like he’d live it, and a lot of his songs seem (to me, at least) to lose something when other people take them on. > > The cluttered arrangements that **BB** mentioned and the over-production that marks some of his posthumous releases don’t touch his live recordings, though, and you can get a feel for not only his music, but his rapport with the audience and a little of his personality (the part he showed on stage, at least - Heartworn Highways and Be Here to Love Me would show you more) as well. [Live at the Old Quarter](http://www.amazon.com/Live-Old-Quarter-Houston-Texas/dp/B00197U0MG/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpp_1) (1977) is a great solo showcase, playing both his own songs and a range of covers (Nine Pound Hammer, Cocaine Blues, Who Do You Love). [Rearview Mirror](http://www.amazon.com/Rear-View-Mirror-Townes-Zandt/dp/B000000EXO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1280261937&sr=1-1) is a compilation of live recordings from 1968-1972 that features a second guitarist and a fiddle. If you were going to get just two albums, those are probably the two I’d recommend. There’s some overlap between them, but the additional instruments really make the two performances distinct. > > His voice and presence really went through some changes over the course of his life. In his later work, there’s a little less laughing and a more palpable sorrow. If you want some contrast between early and late Townes, you could look at [Live at McCabe’s](http://www.amazon.com/Live-Mccabes-Townes-Van-Zandt/dp/B00005Y7FN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1280261434&sr=1-1), [Abnormal](http://www.amazon.com/Abnormal-Townes-Van-Zandt/dp/B00006JKIR/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280262890&sr=1-1), or [Together at the Bluebird Cafe](http://www.amazon.com/Together-Bluebird-Cafe-Steve-Earle/dp/B0001E8D3G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280262809&sr=1-1) with Steve Earle and Guy Clark (all from 1995). That last one is a fantastic album (especially Clark’s Dublin Blues), but it’s not something I’d really call a Townes album. Thanks for the input - I will wait to see if I get more input from Bridget Burke and then pull the trigger. Hearing your take on live vs. studio is very helpful. That Bluebird Cafe one sounds really interesting - I love the Guy Clark I’ve heard (Stuff that Works and a few others) and Steve Earle is usually solid… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-discovered-the-genius-of-townes-van-zandt/548006.md?page=2)