# I've just re-read "Teemings: In The Wake Of The Fire" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465 "2004-06-03T16:12:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465/41 "2004-06-03T23:56:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > **JBJ** , your argument has some validity, particularly in terms of not doing damned fool things like invading Iraq. However, Bin Laden is the Ray Kroc of terrorism franchising. He’s the Big Cheese, the guy who made the concept work. It took him ten years to get it right, and now he and his immediate organization are spreading their practical know-how to anyone who’s ever had a bone to pick with Uncle Sam. I hope you’ll allow me to disagree here. If we continue the Ray Kroc analogy, every McDonald’s is owned and managed by a separate person. You kill off Bin Laden and the Hydra still lives and now, brother it’s pissed. And as a side note, anyone who suggests actually SITTING AROUND WITH CICADAS has obviously not experienced the grossness of the infestation 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465/42 "2004-06-04T00:17:54Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Right, and there won’t be a hundred ideologues right behind him to take his place, all who hate the US more fanatically and have loads more ways to twist us up. I don’t give a shit about your fucking 100 ideologues. It’s the goddamned idea men who are dangerous. Bin Laden trained as a civil engineer, and he obviously has a good problem solving skills. Let the ignorant masses rave. Without leaders who know what they hell they’re doing, and how to get those things done, the masses are powerless. > [@JarbabyJ](#): > > You kill off Bin Laden and the Hydra still lives and now, brother it’s pissed. But the francise is already pissed. There are probably a few more leaders out there now than there were before 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. However, Bin Laden’s proven to be a knowledgeable and effective leader. He’s also shown us his penchant for innovation. That’s a rare trait even in leaders. Is worth keeping him alive and risking that he’ll come up with the “StarBucks brand franchise of terror” just to avoid pissing off a few _more_ of the ignorant and inneffectual masses? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465/43 "2004-06-04T04:00:03Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I don’t give a shit about your fucking 100 ideologues. It’s the goddamned idea men who are dangerous. Bin Laden trained as a civil engineer, and he obviously has a good problem solving skills. Let the ignorant masses rave. Without leaders who know what they hell they’re doing, and how to get those things done, the masses are powerless. Moron, the idealogues are just as smart, if not more smart than he is. They are his descendents, his generals, his lieutenants, and they will step up to the plate when he’s eliminated. There will be twice as many “franchises” then. THey are university educated, and dangerous as hell. Shows how much you understand the situation. :rolleyes: Sam ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465/44 "2004-06-04T08:00:00Z")
Good lord, what a pile of shit this thread is. Angry, screaming monkeys, frantically hopping up and down and flinging poo. Shit like this is why there will always be 9/11s. What a fucking disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465/45 "2004-06-04T11:22:05Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > But the francise is already pissed. This is something I’ve been mulling over for a while, and I’ve realised that this is a facile and even dangerous sentiment. Think about it thus, please: let’s assume that, once someone is a member of Al Qaeda, their hatred is infinite, and there is nothing that the west can do to make this person hate us less. In that respect your sentiment is true. But Arab countries aren’t homogenous. There’s a broad band of opinion, though it may not appear so to us in the west. It’s not about the _quality_ of hatred; it’s about the _quantity_. Morally bereft policies and PR disasters such as Abu Ghraib have the effect of pushing _more_ people towards that absolute hatred. In the beginning you may have had a minority of any given Arab country happy with the west, a majority disinterested, a minority in support of Al Qaeda, and a tiny number of Al Qaeda members. Through the attitude “well it doesn’t matter what we do, because they’ll hate us anyway”, you’re neglecting that the worse the west behaves, the more the table tilts, turning moderates into haters, and haters into terrorists. Good PR is _vital_. Ten Al Qaeda members is preferable to 10,000. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465/46 "2004-06-04T14:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > But Arab countries aren’t homogenous. There’s a broad band of opinion, though it may not appear so to us in the west. It’s not about the quality of hatred; it’s about the quantity. Morally bereft policies and PR disasters such as Abu Ghraib have the effect of pushing more people towards that absolute hatred. Sure, but we’re not talking about torturing muslims or busting a Moab up Sadr’s ass because we disagree with his politics. We’re talking about ridding the world of a single mastermind whose diabolical plan killed 3,000 americans in a single day, and whose continuing existence permits the formulation of more such schemes. What fraction of the muslim fence-sitting population do you think our killing bin Laden would tilt towards the side of hating America? With such clear reasons for wanting to off the guy, it’s difficult for me to believe that anyone who comes out against us as a result of OBL’s death ever stood much of a chance of coming out for us in the first place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-just-re-read-teemings-in-the-wake-of-the-fire/248465.md?page=2)