# I've never read LOTR. Will I like the movie(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059 "2009-05-02T03:16:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/421 "2009-06-30T01:50:29Z")
(Question to myself: Why did I suddenly spell Balrog as “Balroc”? The wings discussion may have thrown me…) Wait, **Qadgop the Mercotan** , Bilbo has (or had) a son?! Is he discussesd in _The Hobbit_? Because if he had close family other than Frodo, where the hell are they? Does anyone have a recommendation of which version (or versions) of the book/s to purchase? Was looking at Amazon for ideas and found a [four-book box set](http://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Lord-Rings-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/B001B2HIL0/ref=ed_oe_p_bargain) (including _The Hobbit_), but I’m seeing some kvetchers about lots of misspellings. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/422 "2009-06-30T02:17:07Z")
Choie - as long as you buy a copy from Houghton Mifflin (the authorized publishers) you’re fine. And dear Dr. Qadop was referring to one of Tolkien’s early versions, referred to in the notes and history of LOTR published by one of Tolkien’s sons. In other words - and in JUST this instance - ignore the Mercotan. Now, get your grabby hands on a copy of Fellowship, turn to “A Long Awaited Party” and away you go. or you can post more of your thoughts of the movies upon your second viewing… ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/423 "2009-06-30T02:33:40Z")
Bingo was Bilbo’s son, later his young cousin, in early drafts of what was to become **The Lord of the Rings**. His companions at one point were Odo, Frodo, and Marmaduke. But as far as the _real_ story goes, no, Bilbo did not have a son. Any textual differences among current editions of **The Lord of the Rings** are going to be minor. I’d recommend just going with the one that’s aesthetically the most pleasing to you and suited to your budget. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/424 "2009-06-30T04:00:11Z")
Ahhh, thank you for the info on Bilbo’s nonson, gentlefolk. **QtM** got me scared there. (Odo, really? That isn’t where DS9 got its Odo, is it?) Since I don’t believe letting the grass grow beneath my feet – oh lord, that is such a lie I don’t know how my fingers can type it – I’ve purchased the abovelinked edition. **well he’s back** , should I not start with _The Hobbit_ or is that something one can read later? I’ll type up my thoughts on the second watch-through of FOTR:EE tomorrow. Time got the better of me today, I fear. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/425 "2009-06-30T04:12:15Z")
Well, my personal vote is skip the Hobbit and go straight to reading LOTR. I just think LOTR is a better reading experience. and you can read Hobbit after, no harm done. But I’ll bet you’d get some other votes here, so up to you. Looking forward to your continuing movie comments. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/426 "2009-06-30T04:53:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To summarize: > First, the lines in _Fellowship of the Ring_: The first description of the Balrog says “the shadow spread out like two vast wings”, and a later mention says something about its wings touching the walls, without a clarification of whether the second mention is metaphorical or not. > > Balrogs make several appearances in the Silmarillion, and can apparently arrive on a scene very quickly. > > There are also known instances of a Balrog falling to its death. Even if you don’t count the one that Gandalf fought, Glorfindel slew one back in the First Age by dragging it down into a canyon with him. This was outdoors, so one assumes there was enough space to spread wings if necessary. > > **The Balrogs were among the earliest servants of Morgoth, being (like Sauron and Gandalf) Maiar, spirits which pre-existed the World. Early in the World’s history, Morgoth spent a lot of effort trying to wrest the secret of flight from the Eagles, without success, so one assumes that none of his early servants had the ability to fly.** > > Personally, my stance is that Balrogs did have wings, but that their wings were literally composed of shadow, and shadow-stuff wings are insufficient to enable a corporeal creature to fly. I’m pretty familiar with the Silmarillion (probably more than LOTR itself) and HOME (although I haven’t read it cover to cover) but I can’t say I’ve ever heard this before. Where is it mentioned that Morgoth tried to find the secret of flight? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/427 "2009-06-30T05:51:35Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > When you get a chance, read the book _Bored of the Rings_, by the Harvard Lampoon. You’ll see just how bound you can get. 😛 Heck, since you mentioned earlier that you like D&D, check out [DM of the Rings](http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=14). The first comic comes with an explanation of what the author is doing, but I think the title makes it pretty obvious, myself. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/428 "2009-06-30T06:06:50Z")
Since you’ve already purchased “The Hobbit,” I’d recommend reading the books in the order they were published. You can experience the growing and unfolding of the adventure in something like the way the author did. But it’s not essential. Having seen the movie, you know more about the Ring’s history than Tolkien did when he started either book. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/429 "2009-06-30T06:20:21Z")
> [@choie](#): > > (Odo, really? That isn’t where DS9 got its Odo, is it?) I doubt it, though you never can tell just where the tentacles of Tolkien influences may reach in modern society. Odo is a very old German name ( ETA: And Tolkien was fond of very old Germans ), probably a variant of Otto. Eudes in French, as with the names of several medieval dukes of Burgundy. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/430 "2009-06-30T07:12:44Z")
Just go ahead and start on _The Hobbit_ or _The Lord of the Rings_. Do not waste any further time reading this thread. I find the whole idea that you need advice before starting the books to be weird. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/431 "2009-06-30T07:49:29Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Just go ahead and start on _The Hobbit_ or _The Lord of the Rings_. Do not waste any further time reading this thread. I find the whole idea that you need advice before starting the books to be weird. It’s called trying to work together, dude. Anyways, If we’re going to do chapter by chapter analysis, we all need to be on the same page. The only reason I’m even attempting to read a book that I’ve heard spends more time on the flora and fauna of Middle Earth than the actual story is that I’ll have other people reading with me. As for which to start with, well, I personally want to start with The LotR, not The Hobbit, as that is what we’ve been discussing. Reading The Hobbit would involve stopping all the momentum provided by watching the movies and reading \*\*choie’\*\*s questions about it, and instead learning an entirely new story, then having to go back to LotR anyways. Let’s not stop in the middle, and instead keep on going. And, anyways, we’re a bunch of geeks discussing one of the geekiest fandoms of all time. In light of that, how can anything we do be called “weird”? ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/432 "2009-06-30T08:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] The Eagles are bit of a quandary for Tolkien geeks. Yes, they’re a serious Deus Ex Machina…and everyone asks why Gandalf didn’t just ride an eagle to the Fiery Mountain and drop the ring in. The stock answer: the eagles don’t run errands for nobody. They report directly to Manwe, head of the Valar (think Zeus, for an analogue). They show up sometimes when needed, but never on command. [/QUOTE] This is pretty much it (as opposed to the suggestions that the Eagles would have been spotted and stopped), but there’s actually even more reason. One of the major themes of LOTR is that the days of the Elves are ending and the world is transitioning to becoming a world of Men. Sauron is the last enemy of the old world and if Men (read=Humans) are going to be deemed worthy of inheriting the world then they need to stand up and defeat this enemy on their own. Hobbits are basically Men, but so unambitious that they never really contributed much to the world (their greatest claim to fame is coming up with the idea of smoking the tobacco-like Pipeweed). There’s actually a running gag in the books that while some of the world had heard of Hobbits, none had any tales or songs of them. Since the Ring(s) basically amplifies the nature of the user, Hobbits are uniquely suited in that they have no ambition for the Ring to corrupt. The Eagles, as direct links to the Valar, could not help since it would defeat the entire purpose of letting Men earn their dominion. Them coming to rescue the Hobbits at the climax can be looked at as divine acknowledgment of their success. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/433 "2009-06-30T09:43:50Z")
The whole idea that you need advice to start reading _The Lord of the Rings_ is weird. Tolkien fandom may indeed be geeky, but those geeks didn’t have to have detailed advice before they began to read the book. I think that the more time you waste asking for advice before reading the book, the less chance that you’ll ever read the book. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/434 "2009-06-30T13:16:26Z")
Well, if you’re going to do a thread of a chapter by chapter analysis, can someone please link to the first chapter thread in this one, so that those of us who are interested don’t somehow miss it? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/435 "2009-06-30T13:24:11Z")
I think the LOTR reading thread can start as soon as newbies Choie and Big T inform the board that they have a copy of Fellowship. I (or another volunteer) can start a thread with suggestions for discussions, commentary or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/436 "2009-06-30T13:25:32Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The whole idea that you need advice to start reading _The Lord of the Rings_ is weird. Tolkien fandom may indeed be geeky, but those geeks didn’t have to have detailed advice before they began to read the book. I think that the more time you waste asking for advice before reading the book, the less chance that you’ll ever read the book. Wendell, stop being [deleted so as not to violate the rules]. If **choie** wants to ask a simple question (which should I read first, The Hobbit or The Trilogy, how is that a bad thing? The rest of the thread hasn’t had anything to do about getting advice for reading, and it’s quite clear that **choie** will read the books. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/437 "2009-06-30T13:53:27Z")
I’d recommend you start with _The Annotated Hobbit_, which has all sorts of great insights into Tolkien’s various inspirations, as well as illustrations from around the world from the various translated editions of the book. PJ’s balrog definitely had wings. You can see them most clearly after the 2:24 mark here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEmwKLgwIC0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEmwKLgwIC0) And in this Weta-authorized diorama: [Oops, Not A Page at the Razor!](http://www.razorsedgecollectibles.com/catalog/images/9716.jpg) Or have a look here (although these are pretty dark images): [http://www.tolkienforums.com/Balrog\_3.jpg](http://www.tolkienforums.com/Balrog_3.jpg), [http://www.wired.com/images\_blogs/photos/uncategorized/balrog.png](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/balrog.png), [http://www.theonering.com/images/medialibrary/g1-4.jpg](http://www.theonering.com/images/medialibrary/g1-4.jpg), [http://www.koxo.org/images/500px-Gandaflandbalrogpic.JPG](http://www.koxo.org/images/500px-Gandaflandbalrogpic.JPG), [http://www.council-of-elrond.com/castdb/balrog/balrog1.jpg](http://www.council-of-elrond.com/castdb/balrog/balrog1.jpg) And when you’re sick and tired of the whole wings-or-not controversy, there’s this: [http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/6/25/633500336199272018-balrog.jpg](http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/6/25/633500336199272018-balrog.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/438 "2009-06-30T14:08:06Z")
Long, long ago choie recieved sufficient information to start reading the books. Now choie is just getting bad advice that will merely throw more obstacles in the way of reading. It is _not_ a good idea to get _The Annotated Hobbit_. Just start reading _The Hobbit_ or _The Lord of the Rings_. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/439 "2009-06-30T14:12:02Z")
**choie** , you’ll have to remember that The Hobbit is a classic fairy tale that has glimpses of the history behind the world Tolkien put it in - but the LoTR is that history reaching one of its climaxes. The LoTR is also, very much so, a book written by a man that seemed to love walking and describing nature. But just read them. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/440 "2009-06-30T14:31:02Z")
Ok, so - The Hobbit is definitely a children’s book. LOTR is an all-ages book, that reads mostly like a regular novel. The Silmarillion is a book of mythology. I prefer LOTR. The long descriptions are disliked by some & loved by others. New readers should form their own opinions & let others know what they think. I read a fascinating article once by a scholar of the Middle Ages (the real ones). He praised Tolkien for giving an accurate picture of what travel was like in pre-industrial times. If we actually end up doing a group reading/discussion thingy we can all bring in such links of interest. I find background knowledge of Tolkien’s participation in one of the most horrific battles of WWI to be very useful to my enjoyment of the text. As is my knowledge from various Tolkien letters/bio material that he abhorred Hitler despite his Victorian approach to social mores. Etc. Anyway, the fun part of any such discussion is to hear what other folks think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059.md?page=23)