# I've never read LOTR. Will I like the movie(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059 "2009-05-02T03:16:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/501 "2009-07-03T18:29:45Z")
No, no I didn’t want the thread to die. Just commenting on the power of the Queen B. Looking forward to your comments on the next two Extended Editions, Choie. (and the books, if/when you, and BigT, read them) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/502 "2009-07-03T19:42:01Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Rohannites (? Rohannians? Rohanni? Rohannim? I assume Rohirrim referred only to fighters) . In Elvish, Rohan (Land of Horses) is the name of the land and Rohirrim (Masters of Horses) is the name of the people. In their own tongue, the land is called the Riddermark(Borderland of the Riders), and the people are called Eorlingas (People of Eorl, named after their first king). ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/503 "2009-07-04T00:15:44Z")
Thanks for the info, **Qadop** and **mbh**. I’m no Tolkien scholar. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/504 "2009-07-04T00:50:13Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I hope it doesn’t die, I still have two more EEs to watch! Though it’s quite likely that no one gives a rat’s patoot anymore. Still, I’ll doggedly continue to post my thoughts because I’m a completist at heart. Trust me: if you post it, they will come. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/505 "2009-07-04T01:18:18Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Trust me: if you post it, they will come. 🙂 Yeah. The thread seemed dead for quite a while between **choie** ’s viewings, but the second she came back and asked questions, everyone came back. I’m pretty sure they will again. Tolkienites and LOTR fans just can’t stay away from fresh blood! Anyways, choie, if you’re going to read the Hobbit first, then let’s go ahead and do the group read/analysis on it, too. Heck, let’s do it even if we read it after LOTR. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/506 "2009-07-04T02:32:18Z")
In addition to Queen Beruthiel’s evil felines, Samwise recited a poem entitled simply “Cat.” Barliman Butterbur, the proprietor of the Prancing Pony, had a cat in the movie FOTR, but I don’t recall if Tolkien mentioned one being there. One of the hobbits also had a dog who barked at the Nazgul searching for “Baggins.” The only cattle I recall being mentioned were the Kine of Araw, very large oxen; the horn of one of them became Boromir’s horn. The best-known dog of Middle-earth was Huan, Beren’s friend and ally. Here’s more on animals in Tolkien’s legendarium: [Tuckborough - The Thain's Book](http://www.tuckborough.net/animals.html) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/507 "2009-07-14T20:14:39Z")
Just wanted to say that this thread has renewed my interest in Tolkien and inspired me to rewatch the movies 😃 I don’t have a huge knowledge of Tolkien so maybe I can liven things up with some questions? For example, people talk about how the music of the Valar and the songs that they and Eru sang created the world. Was that creation ever expanded beyond the abstract? Did they literally start singing and rocks and trees started appearing out of nowhere? On that same point, what was Melkor’s dissonance within the music? Was he just not hitting the notes right? Or was it like he was injecting asides and words into the song? Kind of like how Trekkie Monster kept adding “For porn!” at the end of Kate Monster’s song about the internet 😃 By the way, its been years since I last visited this subject, but do we know what Tom Bombadil is yet? Maiar, or some other thing? Any consensus? About the whole nobility of the bloodlines thing, if we can put it into easier terms for me to understand, what kind of superhero comic book powers did the pure bloodlines of Elves and Men hold thousands of years ago that they don’t have now? So far I’ve gotten the long life span thing, but apparently the Men of old were much more powerful than the men are now. So super strength? Super speed? Smarter and more intelligent? Telepathic? One more thing, and this might be a stupid question, but are there any dwarf women? We never see any. If not, how do they procreate? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/508 "2009-07-14T20:18:48Z")
Oh, one thing I forgot. Several people mentioned a thread called something like “What if someone else wrote LOTR?”. I’ve been unable to search for it since the terms are so common, can anyone link me? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/509 "2009-07-14T20:39:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Just wanted to say that this thread has renewed my interest in Tolkien and inspired me to rewatch the movies 😃 > > I don’t have a huge knowledge of Tolkien so maybe I can liven things up with some questions? > > For example, people talk about how the music of the Valar and the songs that they and Eru sang created the world. Was that creation ever expanded beyond the abstract? Did they literally start singing and rocks and trees started appearing out of nowhere? > > On that same point, what was Melkor’s dissonance within the music? Was he just not hitting the notes right? Or was it like he was injecting asides and words into the song? Kind of like how Trekkie Monster kept adding “For porn!” at the end of Kate Monster’s song about the internet 😃 No, the Ainulindale (The Song of the Ainur) was sung by Eru, the Valar, and the Maiar and then, at the end of the music, Arda was revealed to the Valar and the Maiar in full. Some parts were sung only by Eru (including the eventual fate of the souls of Men) and the Ainur have no knowledge of those parts. The music ends at the end of the Third Age, and so no one (Ainu, Elf or mortal) what comes after. And yes, Melkor’s dissonance was pretty much like Trekkie Monster’s. He wanted to actually create his own song by taking over the music of Eru, but Eru wove HIS music around the parts that Melkor was singing, enfolding him in the creation of Arda and working out the fate of the world beyond Melkor’s song. > [@](#): > > By the way, its been years since I last visited this subject, but do we know what Tom Bombadil is yet? Maiar, or some other thing? Any consensus? No idea. Tolkien never seemed to know just how Bombadil fit into the cosmology of Middle-Earth. And he never gave any definitive answers during his lifetime. > [@](#): > > About the whole nobility of the bloodlines thing, if we can put it into easier terms for me to understand, what kind of superhero comic book powers did the pure bloodlines of Elves and Men hold thousands of years ago that they don’t have now? So far I’ve gotten the long life span thing, but apparently the Men of old were much more powerful than the men are now. So super strength? Super speed? Smarter and more intelligent? Telepathic? Men: Smarter. More noble. A bit stronger. Elves: The big difference in Elves isn’t so much from age as from whether or not they’d seen the light of the Trees. The Eldar had journeyed to Valinor and lived with the Valar and Maiar in the light of the Two Trees. They had greater wisdom, greater learning, greater magic and greater personal power than the Elves who stayed behind. The Sindar, whose king, Elwe, had been to see the Trees, and whose queen, Melian, was a Maia herself, were lesser than the Eldar, but not by too much. They were certainly considered noble enough to marry by the Eldar, as Galadriel (an Eldar) married Celeborn (a Sindar). The silvan Elves were “wild Elves” who had turned back before the Elves had reached Beleriand and lived through the First Age in the forests of Eriador and east of the Misty Mountains. They were probably the least powerful Elves in Middle-Earth. > [@](#): > > One more thing, and this might be a stupid question, but are there any dwarf women? We never see any. If not, how do they procreate? There are dwarf women, but their birth ratio is lower than that of the men and they don’t often marry. That’s why the race is dying out in the Third Age…they’ve suffered horrible depredations by Dragons and Orcs, and there aren’t enough women who wish to marry to repopulate. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/510 "2009-07-14T20:41:03Z")
[What If LOTR Had Been Written By Someone Else](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=138905) You can search the boards on Google now, too. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/511 "2009-07-14T20:45:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > For example, people talk about how the music of the Valar and the songs that they and Eru sang created the world. Was that creation ever expanded beyond the abstract? Did they literally start singing and rocks and trees started appearing out of nowhere? Your guess is as good as mine, since I wasn’t there. But yeah, kinda. Instead of “Let there be light!..and there was light”, there was music, and the music became the physical world as we know it. How that actually happened is left to your imagination. Which also applies to the Melkor’s dissonance question, too. > [@](#): > > By the way, its been years since I last visited this subject, but do we know what Tom Bombadil is yet? Maiar, or some other thing? Any consensus? Nope, and there probably never will be. He’s an anomaly. > [@](#): > > About the whole nobility of the bloodlines thing, if we can put it into easier terms for me to understand, what kind of superhero comic book powers did the pure bloodlines of Elves and Men hold thousands of years ago that they don’t have now? So far I’ve gotten the long life span thing, but apparently the Men of old were much more powerful than the men are now. So super strength? Super speed? Smarter and more intelligent? Telepathic? Nothing as comic-booky as super powers. Men of old were closer to the elves, and therefore had access to, for lack of a better word, advanced science & technology. And apparently Aragorn has healing powers that only the King’s possess. But that’s about it. > [@](#): > > One more thing, and this might be a stupid question, but are there any dwarf women? We never see any. If not, how do they procreate? Yes, but they’re relatively scarce and don’t travel…and possibly look a lot like male dwarves (ie, bearded). So few dwarves marry, and few people have seen a female dwarf. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/512 "2009-07-14T22:02:29Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Your guess is as good as mine, since I wasn’t there. But yeah, kinda. Instead of “Let there be light!..and there was light”, there was music, and the music became the physical world as we know it. How that actually happened is left to your imagination. That’s actually not true. The Song of the Ainur happens first. After it is ended (by the rather loud and emphatic ending chord that Eru gives forth), Eru then takes the Ainur off to one side and shows them what their music would translate to in “reality.” They see a vision of a world, Arda, from birth to death, with the happenings therein the manifestation of their music. Having shown them this, he ends the vision, and then creates Eä, the World That Is, and allows those who would to go down into it and make Arda, the Earth, according to the Music. And each tries to implement that part of the music that they remember, or were instrumental in creating, even Melkor, whose main contribution quickly turns to tearing down and despoiling. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/513 "2009-07-14T22:51:46Z")
Oh how I love that “What If LOTR Had Been Written by Someone Else” thread. It’s what brought me to the Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/514 "2009-07-14T23:29:01Z")
The best answer to the question “Who is Tom Bombadil?” is that given by Goldberry: “He is.”. If you insist on putting him in a category, he’s in he category of “Beings who are Tom Bombadil”, of which category he is the only member. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/515 "2009-07-15T00:01:57Z")
“Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dadar! Iar Wain, jolly wain, Iarwain Ben-adar!” [http://kunochan.com/sauron/](http://kunochan.com/sauron/) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/516 "2009-07-15T00:28:53Z")
The “superpowers” associated with the Edain was that they had truer knowledge of the world than the lesser men and so were better able to exhibit the characteristics of a fully actualized mortal. The same goes for the elves that went to Valinor and were instructed by the actual powers of the world instead of a single Maia or left to their own devices. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/517 "2009-07-15T02:44:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Yes, but they’re relatively scarce and don’t travel…and possibly look a lot like male dwarves (ie, bearded). So few dwarves marry, and few people have seen a female dwarf. The bearded thing is what I’ve always heard. In other words, even if you did see a female dwarf, you wouldn’t know it (unless you’re a dwarf). It was actually one of the coolest gender-bending concepts I’d heard. Why assume that secondary sexual characteristics would be the same for all races? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/518 "2009-07-15T08:09:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > In addition to Queen Beruthiel’s evil felines, Samwise recited a poem entitled simply “Cat.” Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/519 "2009-07-15T13:23:53Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Huh? 😕 So said this book, although I didn’t look it up in LOTR: [Amazon.com: Tolkien's World from A to Z: The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth: 9780345449764: Robert Foster: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Middle-Earth-Robert-Foster/dp/0345449762/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247664203&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/520 "2009-07-15T13:44:53Z")
Well, I watched the first four Harry Potter movies over the weekend, and they just don’t measure up to me, even though I love the Harry Potter books as much (in a different way) as the Tolkien books. But whenever Lucius Malfoy came on screen, all I could think was “Man, he’d make a GREAT elf!” And although I think Viggo Mortensen worked out to be about as terrific an Aragorn as anyone could have imagined (and an ideal person to play him), I found myself wondering if no one ever considered Gary Oldman for the role, because he was far better known than Mortensen and would have played the role very well, judging by his Sirius Black. But above all, I found myself wondering why the Harry Potter movies just don’t grab me the way the LotR movies do. Is it just that the Harry Potter books are geared to a younger audience? Did anyone else who loves both sets of books feel the same way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059.md?page=27)