# I've never read LOTR. Will I like the movie(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059 "2009-05-02T03:16:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/61 "2009-05-05T13:42:26Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > And no, people can care about each other in non-sexual ways. Cite? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/62 "2009-05-05T14:06:41Z")
More quick answers! -re Bilbo: Frodo knew what Bilbo what was planning, but it still made him sad. The party guests didn’t know about the ring, just thought the disappearance was a party trick from Gandalf. -re Elrond/Arwen: she is his daughter. Actually, Galadriel is her grandmother, but that doesn’t mater here. If an immortal Elf mates with a mortal they choose mortality, death. Which would make her father sad. -yes, many many slash stories. I’ll try to dig up the link to the very funny Secret Diaries, but not til you’ve seen all the movies. -In the books Frodo is NOT a damsel in distress. I read the books first so he’s still my hero. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/63 "2009-05-05T14:09:22Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > -yes, many many slash stories. I’ll try to dig up the link to the very funny Secret Diaries, but not til you’ve seen all the movies. I linked to them above. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/64 "2009-05-05T14:13:02Z")
Thanks, RNATB! They really are classic. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/65 "2009-05-05T14:29:54Z")
Sheesh, looks like all of your questions have been answered, **choie**. Well, enjoy _The Two Towers_, and then on to _The Return of the King_. You’re in for a real treat! I first read the books in high school and was instantly hooked. I’ve re-read them several times over the years, most recently before I saw each movie, and it was wonderful to be able to compare and contrast them. That said, there’s nothing wrong with watching the movies without ever having read the books. If you really like the movies, though, the books will add a much greater degree of context and complexity, to say nothing of being beautiful writing in its own right. Of course, it’s not for everybody, and some people just find Tolkien not to their liking. You may wish to start with _The Hobbit_, which was largely intended for children, as a good, easy written intro to Middle-earth. It tells the story about how Bilbo found the One Ring and met Gollum in the first place, 80-some years before the events of _Fellowship_. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/66 "2009-05-05T15:25:02Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > b) The other hobbits went with Frodo because they are very good friends of his and they care about him and want to help the cause. Not that it matters, but in the books (which were written before Harry Potter, of course) they are more serious characters. One of the minor plot threads going through the books (and the movies) is how Merry and Pippin mature. They go from being basically teenaged cock-ups (particuarly Pippin) in the first movie to…well, that would be spoiling it for some of you. 🙂 Suffice to say that, while they aren’t the major characters, Merry and Pippin do have their own story arc. > [@well he's back](#): > > And no, people can care about each other in non-sexual ways. While it does seem highly unlikely that JRRT intended to put in any homosexual subplots…the Very Secret Diaries are just one example of the field day that “slash” fan-fic authors have had with the stories (Frodo/Sam, Merry/Pippin, Aragorn/Legolas, Legolas/Gimli, etc., etc.). ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/67 "2009-05-05T16:40:52Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Oh, one interesting bit of info that doesn’t have anything to do with Aragorn and Arwen (so I’m not spoiling anything): though elves are immortal in normal circumstances, they don’t grow old and they don’t get sick, they’re not invincible. They can be killed, like with a sword or arrow, just like anybody else. They are reborn in the Dying Lands when they are killed in Middle Earth (tho some may dispute that-[cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf_(Middle-earth)): scroll down to “Death.”). > [@Grey](#): > > c) Aragon tells the tale of Beren and Luthien, where a mortal man and eleven woman fall in love. > The crypt is really more of a memorial to Elendil/Isildur. As for religion, there isn’t really any direct reference. For the Elves, it isn’t needed since they have actually lived with divine beings and understand the nature of the world. > The tombstone is his mothers. You have to remember that the fall of Sauron was about 3000 years earlier. Aragon’s people have dwindled and diminished but the heirs of Isildur have been fostered in Rivendell and the heirlooms of their house (sword that was broken) kept in trust. So not a big surprise that his mom is buried there. > > Also Elrond and Aragon are related in a very distance manner. Oh and Elrond is basically Aragon’s foster father. In point of fact Beren and Luthien are ancestors of both Aragorn and Arwen. Which essentially makes them “kissing cousins.” [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Telcontar). > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > No, his staff cannot zap people, the movie-created scene with Saruman notwithstanding. Yes, he is very powerful – in wisdom, leadership. As already said, they had rules. Gandalf could use his powers, without restriction, against the Balrog (and Saruman) because it was more or less of the same power level as he (for lack of a better term). Against “lower” beings, he wasn’t allowed to do such things. I always interpreted the battle in Orthanc between Gandalf and Saruman as a battle of wills. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/68 "2009-05-05T18:09:11Z")
Most of this has been answered already, but since I went and typed it all up: > [@](#): > > a) Why did Samwise keep calling Frodo “Mr. Frodo”? Aren’t they peers? I didn’t get the impression that Frodo was some member of the Hobbit gentry or anything like that. Merry and, uh, the other guy (Tott? Trott? Tock?) didn’t ever call him “Mr.” Frodo, Merry (Meriadoc Brandybuck), and Pippen (Peregrin Took) are all tenuously related, and the closest thing Hobbits have to “gentry”-- The Bagginses are landed old money, Pippin is heir to the Thane (a title which traditionally attaches to the head of the Took family), and Merry is the heir to the Master of the Hall, semi-official leader of Buckland, a sort of semi-independent outcropping of the Shire. Sam, though, and his father before him, is a gardener in the employ of the Baggins family. > [@](#): > > b) Speaking of the other Hobbits, why did they come along with Frodo and Sam? It was like one minute they were running from Farmer MacGregor that angry farmer, and the next they’d all hopped aboard the Prancing Pony Express train without any explanation. (BTW, I couldn’t help thinking of Fred and George Weasley with these two; comic relief pranksters who cause havoc with fireworks…) The other three Hobbits involved (plus a fourth who didn’t go all the way on the adventure and didn’t make it into the movie, one Fredegar “Fatty” Bolger) know just how deathly serious the whole matter is, and know that they need to get Frodo safely at least as far as Rivendell. Merry and Pippen’s clowning is largely whistling in the dark, and largely just their style (similar to how the Weasley twins kept their sense of humor while fighting Death Eaters). > [@](#): > > c) Didn’t Aragorn/Strider tell Frodo that someone, who I assumed was his beloved, had died? Then Arwen shows up and clearly she ain’t dead. Then Aragorn hangs out reading in some kind of crypt or chapel (is there Christianity or non-Elven religion in Middle Earth?) and is looking mopey at a seeming Virgin Mary statue above what looked like a tomb, wiping away dust from the engraving as if this is his beloved or possibly his mom? But what is his mom’s tomb doing in Rivendel? Holy cow I’m confused. I’m not sure precisely where you’re getting that from, but the short version is that he and Arwen do love each other, but Elrond doesn’t think he’s good enough to marry his daughter, and so prohibits it until Aragorn can prove himself. You’ll see later precisely what form that proving takes. > [@](#): > > d) So Aragorn is going under the name Strider … why? To hide from his legacy because he doesn’t like or trust his fellow humans? Boromir seemed not to recognize him, but when he heard his real name (I think) he knew he was the prince who had left Gondor (sp?), and resented him because of this abandonment, right? Was there any other history between these two? Aragorn has gone by about a dozen different names at various points, but his true name would have significance for very few people. I don’t remember precisely how it went in the movie, but Boromir should not have reacted at all to “Aragorn son of Arathorn” (though he _should_ have reacted to Aragorn’s full lineage). > [@](#): > > e) Gandalf sure takes his sweet time to start unleashing his wizardry. Why was he fighting a kabillion orcs (or were they goblins?) with a sword when surely his staff could be zapping those little bastards right and left? Is he not as powerful as I think he is? He’s extremely powerful, but magic in Middle-Earth is a lot more subtle than in many fantasy stories. “Zapping left and right” just isn’t the way things work in Tolkien’s works. > [@](#): > > g) Um … Sam and Frodo are lovers, right? At least, Sam reeeally seems into Frodo. Same is very highly devoted to Frodo, but there’s no indication that his devotion was in any way romantic or sexual (despite the impressions of many slash writers). Sam eventually settles down with a pretty hobbit lass (Rose Cotton; you saw her dancing at the party in the beginning) and has many children. > [@](#): > > h) Mithrail armor. I’ve heard of this before through, as Equipoise called it, cultural osmosis. But I’m not sure what it does. Does it have healing properties? Because clearly Frodo was gutted like a pig on a spit by that, uh, troll-like thingy (was it a troll?), but three minutes later he was fine and the Dwarf indicated that the chain mail wifebeater was responsible. Mithril is an extremely lightweight, extremely strong, and extremely valuable metal (that chain shirt was worth approximately as much as the entire Shire). It didn’t heal him from that spear; it prevented it from skewering him in the first place, exactly as armor ought to. > [@](#): > > i) I really seemed to miss something in the whole Cate Blanchette / Elf Witch segment. Firstly, I’m predisposed to assume Cate is playing evil, because, y’know, the White Witch / Jadis from Narnia thing. Second, her evilosity was built up because Frodo was hearing her voice being all seductive and, well, evil-sounding. So naturally Frodo gets out of bed and walks right up to her so she has the opportunity to make a play for the ring, and then she gets all green and scary as hell and her voice turns into Bea Arthur and Frodo gets creeped out, and she says she passed the test(?). And then the next scene … shows Cate being all glowily beatific and benevolent, the Wizardess of Oz (or Aslan) giving each Fellowship member that one special item useful in battle. The hell? Did I misunderstand what she said? Was she testing Frodo? And why? Who the hell is she to make tests, anyway? Geeze. Galadriel is good. Her point there is that, were she to take the Ring, she would surely become evil, and a particularly terrible sort of evil. > [@](#): > > j) By the way, how freakin’ stupid is Frodo to keep going off by himsef to people he doesn’t trust? He does this with Cate, but then later, when he suspects he’s gonna be betrayed, sure enough, he goes off by himself when the whole of Mordor is out for his blood, and gets up close and personal with Boromir. Not the brightest kid, is he? Oh, I guess this isn’t a question. My question is: am I wrong or is Frodo supposed to be exceptionally naive and/or foolhardy? Or was he purposely trying to test Boromir? His naivety and trusting nature are part of what qualifies him to be the Ringbearer, as it means that it’s not as corrupting for him as it would be for most. > [@](#): > > k) WTF are you KIDDING me with the movie ending where it did??? ARGH! Holy moley. You guys were sure correct in saying that the film didn’t tie up the main story. Since someone mentions that this actually ends with the first bit of the Two Towers book, where does the Fellowship book actually end? The first book ends pretty much in the same place as the first movie. The ending of the second book/movie don’t quite match up, though (some material that was at the end of the second book is at the beginning of the third movie). Further to what some others have said: It is not the norm in Elf-Human pairings (rare enough as they are to begin with) for the elf to choose mortality. Most elves don’t have that option at all. Elrond and his brother are actually of mixed Elvish and Human ancestry, and did have that option (Elros chose to be counted among Men, and was the start of the human royal line, while Elrond chose the fate of the Elves). Arwen claims that she has also inherited the choice, but it’s not entirely clear that she has: Elros’s sons did not have a choice (and resented the choice their father made), and when Arwen does eventually die, it’s of grief, not old age (elves can canonically die of grief). Aragorn and Arwen are, as mentioned earlier, very distantly related: Elros, brother of Elrond, is Aragorn’s distant ancestor. Which makes the two of them first cousins, about 500 times removed. This is not a close enough relationship to be troubling either from a genetic or societal point of view. Elros and Elrond were, in turn, partly descended from Beren and Luthien, the previous Elf-Human pairing Aragorn told of. Luthien was literally half-angel, and the most beautiful maiden of any race who would ever live, and Arwen was said to be in the image of her ancestress. Aragorn, while extremely badass, is still nowhere near as badass as Beren was (and even at that, Luthien’s father didn’t think Beren was good enough for her, either). Beren and Luthien’s story is one of the tales told in _The Silmarillion_, the myths of ages earlier that form the background for _Lord of the Rings_. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/69 "2009-05-05T18:24:56Z")
Chronos, Chronos - Remember the OP doesn’t know the whole story! Don’t tell him what the characters eventually do! (Sorry - I probably did the same thing & you know LOTR lore better than I so I’ll just shut up now.) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/70 "2009-05-05T18:30:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Arwen claims that she has also inherited the choice, but it’s not entirely clear that she has: Elros’s sons did not have a choice (and resented the choice their father made), Got a cite for that? My recollection is that clearly the choice was extended to the children of Elrond by the Valar, when they met in counsel to figure what to do with the “problem of Peredhil”. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/71 "2009-05-05T18:33:28Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > a) No, Sam and Frodo are not peers. Sam’s family worked for Frodo’s for a long time. And Frodo is older than Sam. One notable change from book to movie is the fact that Frodo starts off aged 33 at Bilbo’s 111th party. Sam, by contrast, is 21 at that point. They have a close friendship, but it’s very much older/master - younger/servant friendship. Think of _Driving Miss Daisy_, if not quite as extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/72 "2009-05-05T18:55:44Z")
Peter Jackson and others have likened it to the close friendship and working relationship of a British army officer (as Tolkien was during WWI) and his batman, a combination valet/assistant/boon companion. The batman would be a rung or three down the social ladder from the officer, but no less valued. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/73 "2009-05-05T19:08:37Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Speaking of Bilbo: what was his point in making that big announcement at his birthday party and using the ring? If he was trying to keep his ownership of the ring a secret – and it seems like something you’d wanna keep secret – why did he show off like that? Rather attention whorey of him, wasn’t it? Plus, he was so fond of Frodo; he must’ve known disappearing like that would make his beloved nephew scared as hell. The ring had eventually warped and twisted Gollum, but it had not been anything more than an interesting trinket for Bilbo. Even Gandalf did not realise that it was the One Ring until after Bilbo “retired”. > [@](#): > > Were we to assume that at some point on the journey to the inn Frodo told them about the ring? I think they were told in Rivendell. > [@](#): > > Well, I’m thick as a dwarf’s neck because I couldn’t figure out what his current situation was vis-a-vis Arwen. Clearly they were in love, that’s not what confuses me. But what’s keeping them apart? He’s Human, she’s not. She may live for thousands of years, and he doesn’t want to inflict the pain of his death on her. > [@](#): > > Okay, that’s a big help! Thanks. Is it possible that Elf Agent Smith isn’t that keen on Aragorn wooing Arwen (who is … what, Smith’s daughter?) because he doesn’t trust his family line? Elrond (who is himself a half-elf) is Arwen’s father. Elrond chose the Elven way of life. He had a brother, who, IIRC, chose the Human way. But he, too, fears the pain that Arwen may experience when her mortal husband dies. I don’t recall any details Tolkien may have given on Elf love. Do they pair/mate for life? > [@](#): > > But he was sure doing some whiz-bang magic up against Darth Saruman. Surely he could’ve blown some goblins away just to make life easier. Somehow, magic may have been seen as disruptive to the natural order of things. Elven magic is pretty subtle (nourishing bread, chameleon cloaks), and they learned their craft from the creators of the world (the Valar and Maia). Gandalf appears to be under some mandate to use as little power as necessary to achieve the goals of getting the Free People to resist Sauron. 99% of the time, that involves offering little pearls of wisdom here and there to the right people. When they show up in Edoras (?) in movie 2, the gent who meets them (to confiscate their weapons) seems to recognise gandalf right away, implying that Gandalf gets around. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/74 "2009-05-05T19:20:33Z")
> [@choie](#): > > a) Why did Samwise keep calling Frodo “Mr. Frodo”? Aren’t they peers? As already said, they were not peers. And he may have used that address as distinguishing Frodo from Bilbo (who he might’ve called “Mr. Baggins”) rather than signifying familiarity. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/75 "2009-05-05T19:32:29Z")
Slept, refreshed, and soon off to work, I see others have been busy. I love it! > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > They are reborn in the Dying Lands when they are killed in Middle Earth (tho some may dispute that-[cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf_(Middle-earth)): scroll down to “Death.”). Thanks, good detail. As a bit of background, and without going into mind-numbing detail (we don’t want to scare choie away), would you or someone else please explain the Dying Lands for choie? In part, to explain what Galadriel meant when she said “I will diminish, and go to the West” after her freak out in front of Frodo. I found that fascinating when I came back from the movie, after scratching my head and saying “what’d she say?”. And what “the Valar and Maia” are. I understand what they are, but I couldn’t explain them in an articulate way. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/76 "2009-05-05T19:41:03Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > And what “the Valar and Maia” are. I understand what they are, but I couldn’t explain them in an articulate way. [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Valar](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Valar) [http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Maia](http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Maia) ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/77 "2009-05-05T19:43:19Z")
All Choie needs to know at this point is that Valar and Maia are gods of differing levels, and he/she doesn’t even really need to know that. When Galadriel says she will go into the West, she will go to the Undying Lands - sort of Elf heaven, where all the elves eventually go as Middle Earth’s magic leaves at the end of the third age. for Choie: it’s like King Arthur’s Avalon, or the Norse gods’ Valhalla. (Yeah, fellow Tolkien geeks, I know those aren’t completely accurate; please let’s not scare the noobie away. We want to hear what he/she says about the next two movies!) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/78 "2009-05-05T19:43:45Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Slept, refreshed, and soon off to work, I see others have been busy. I love it! > > Thanks, good detail. As a bit of background, and without going into mind-numbing detail (we don’t want to scare choie away), would you or someone else please explain the Dying Lands for choie? In part, to explain what Galadriel meant when she said “I will diminish, and go to the West” after her freak out in front of Frodo. I found that fascinating when I came back from the movie, after scratching my head and saying “what’d she say?”. > > And what “the Valar and Maia” are. I understand what they are, but I couldn’t explain them in an articulate way. Undying lands, actually. The Blessed realm, where the Valar and Maiar live. Along with some elves who answered the call of the Valar long ages ago. They’re the Undying lands because the undying folk live there. The lands do not confer immortality to the likes of us mortals. They are part of the world, but presently slightly removed from it. Elves whose bodies are destroyed go to the Undying Lands in spirit, where they may eventually get issued new bodies. Mortals whose bodies die/are destroyed have their spirits leave the world entirely for places/fates unknown, never to be seen again. The Valar and Maiar are beings (aka Ainur), who sprang fully formed from the thought of Eru Iluvatar (the One Allfather) and were with Eru before the world was created. The Ainur helped Eru create Arda, the world that is, and to realize it. Many Ainur descended into Arda to help fulfill its history. The mightiest of the Ainur are referred to as the Valar (15 in total, including Melkor, the fallen Vala) and the lesser Ainur are called the Maiar, and include Saruman, Sauron, Gandalf, Balrogs, and a few other things to be named later. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/79 "2009-05-05T19:50:13Z")
Fun fact: Tolkien’s map of Middle Earth fits almost perfectly over the map of the West Midlands (region of England) circa 1930. In case anyone wants to experiment at home, you’ll find it pretty easy if you can locate the Black Country area, between present-day Wolverhampton and Birmingham, and work from there. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059/80 "2009-05-05T19:54:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Fun fact: Tolkien’s map of Middle Earth fits almost perfectly over the map of the West Midlands (region of England) circa 1930. In case anyone wants to experiment at home, you’ll find it pretty easy if you can locate the Black Country area, between present-day Wolverhampton and Birmingham, and work from there. There’s a square mountain range, sporting a volcano, in England? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-never-read-lotr-will-i-like-the-movie-s/495059.md?page=5)