# I've seen the future, and this is it: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 26, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486 "2009-02-26T05:57:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/241 "2009-02-28T01:23:35Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Two things: First, we can’t fight ignorance unless somebody brings it to us; and second, I decided a long time ago that you don’t fight ignorance out of the ignorant, you remove it from the audience to the fight. By that logic, december should still be able to post here, and at least a _portion_ of that argument is the same as Starving has made about _his_ posts. He’s stated in the past that he’s given up all hope of any of _us_ actually “learning” anything from what he says, and only posts so that those lurkers who might, perchance, stumble across his turdblossoms of wisdom take comfort in the facts that he alone can so bravely put forth in the face of such tireless opposition as we, the great unwashed, are so want to do. Its bullshit when _he_ says it, and its bullshit when someone tries to use it as a justification for allowing him to remain here. **Anyone** who subscribes to the same level of sheer, unadulterated amounts of bullshit that Starving does (and FTR, I am **not** lumping people who call themselves “conservative” into the same pile as Starving, my issue with Starving has **nothing** to do with him being “conservative” and _everything_ to do with him having **less** intellectual honesty than a $2 whore) is **not** going to be swayed be a well reasoned argument, backed up with numerous citations. They, like the fucknuggets who insist that there is **no** proof of Darwin’s famous theory, have foresworn _any_ desire to actually look at the issue and study it in a _rational_ matter. Their mind is made up, and they’re **not** going to allow a silly thing like facts to get in the way of what they believe. The **only** thing they _can_ understand, besides someone fapping away at the same kind of lies they already believe, is, to be honest about it, blunt force trauma. Admittedly, that _won’t_ change their mind, but it _will_ cause them to STFU, which, IMHO, is just as good. Given that taking Starving, and others of his ilk, out and beating them to within an inch of their life is **not** legal, the only remaining course of action is ban him from the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/242 "2009-02-28T02:44:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Starving Artist is stupid. But he is not a cunt. Then again, I’ve been wrong before. 😃 Starving Artist is a perfect example of modern conservatism. Stupidity stuffed into anger, wrapped around ignorance, forming a mighty Turducken of simpleton ideology. What happened? Once there were smart people among the conservatives. Now Jindal, McCain and Palin have to talk to them like they’re children because only stunted worthless dregs remain. What was this thread about again? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/243 "2009-02-28T02:54:57Z")
Its about **Starving Artist**. They’re all pretty much about **Starving Artist**. Used to be about **Scylla**. But the douche is passed to a new generation… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/244 "2009-02-28T03:07:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its about **Starving Artist**. They’re all pretty much about **Starving Artist**. Used to be about **Scylla**. But the douche is passed to a new generation… At least Scylla is charismatic. Stupid, simple and laughably obtuse, but he’s likable. SA is as endearing as a retard swinging a length of barbed wire. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/245 "2009-02-28T03:07:42Z")
I usually refer to him as **Starving for Attention** for obvious reasons. Generally, though , he’s just a simple tool. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/246 "2009-02-28T03:18:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Make of that, and me, what you will. What I make of it is that you’re a useless cunt. Fuck you, you fucking troll. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/247 "2009-02-28T03:25:58Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > What I make of it is that you’re a useless cunt. > > Fuck you, you fucking troll. oops. Somebody hasn’t read the new pit rules ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/248 "2009-02-28T03:30:12Z")
Somebody should probably tell somebody. I would, but I have to trim my toenails. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/249 "2009-02-28T03:46:55Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > oops. Somebody hasn’t read the new pit rules Read them; reread them; can’t make any sense of them. There’s a thread over in ATMB on the subject; it has nearly a thousand posts, and no resolution. In some situations, “cunt” is the right word. **Starving Artist** has one gift: creating such situations. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/250 "2009-02-28T04:43:05Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > What I make of it is that you’re a useless cunt. > > Fuck you, you fucking troll. **Mod note:** Knock it off, please. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/251 "2009-02-28T05:15:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > (Bolding mine.) > > **It used to be possible to have that kind of lifestyle on one income.** > > I am not suggesting that women are not capable, or should not be in the workforce if they want to be. **I highlight it only as an example of the trend in income disparity** , which has lately seen the rich get richer, and everyone else work harder just to stay where they are. We could probably debate the must equitable distribution (and the way this thread has gone, who knows). Personally, I don’t believe either the “crush the capitalist oppressors” or “every man for himself” camps have it right. And I am suspicious of arguments that try to push for extremes. That’s the great thing about “our times”. Everyone has the right to work harder and longer (sounds dirty doesn’t it), and get less in return. Tis a grand grand thing. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/252 "2009-02-28T07:55:34Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > No, it shouldn’t have, and I have a really hard time believing that you honestly think that. If you do then you don’t understand what plagiarism is at all. The only thing that would have “been enough” was a clear and unambiguous statement that you got the content of your post from somewhere else. Anything less than that is plagiarism. I disagree. Plagiarism goes to context. It requires dishonest intent. It’s important to keep the chronology of events in order. I received an email forwarding cleverly composed in a journalistic style. There was no attribution. I looked to see who wrote it because I thought it was clever and wondered who the joker was. Nothing was there. I accepted that it was probably written by some conservative wit and sent off to make the rounds via email. As far as the parody itself goes, I took it to be attacking mainly the current [del]spending[/del] stimulus bill, and using the disability act for jargonistic style. I thought it was hilarious and that posting it here would get a laugh from some, agreement from some, rolled eyes from others, and fury from some of the usual suspects (many of whom are the primary posters to this thread). So I copied it, dashed in here to check the Pit rules on joke threads, discovered that parodies are okay if disclaimered as such, and posted it. That’s it. That’s all the thought that went into it. Now, what did I expect would be the result? I expected that I would be spending a lot of time debating the pros and cons of current government spending programs in light of the current Democrats in Congress and whether or not things would ever get to the ridiculous lengths described in the OP. Plagiarism, ownership, provenance, whatever, never crossed my mind. I got an email, I copied it, and I posted it. The entire episode took no more than a couple of minutes. Now plagiarism, as I understand it and as defined by M-W, requires deliberate intent to pass off something as one’s own. I did not do that and I know that I did not do that. Therefore, when someone accuses me of having done so, particularly when the accusation is obviously motivated by anger over the OP, I’m gonna argue about it. I believe in similar circumstances you would do the same. It’s contrary to human nature to respond to angry and inaccurate accusations of malfeasance with an apology. It simply is. And that’s why I argued the point. With regard to plagiarism itself, you need to understand that it would have been dishonest for me to admit to it. It would have been a lie. There was no plagiaristic intent and for me to admit to it would have a lie, a dishonest and chicken-shit tactic undertaken in the cynical hope that it would silence my critics. And as far as apologies go, given that no plagiarism had occurred there was nothing to apologize for…or at least that was my thinking at the time. **LHoD** , **Bricker** , and a few others eventually persuaded me otherwise, but at this point we’re talking about my behavior earlier in the thread. So this is my answer to you about how the thread came into being, what I expected to happen as a result of it, and why I responded as I did to posters seeking to make an issue out of my alleged plagiarism. > [@Lamia](#): > > \*No, you haven’t. You haven’t posted _any_ evidence, just a quote about Bruce Springsteen and repeated claims that this somehow proves your point. With respect, no. I didn’t post “just” a quote about Bruce Springsteen. I posted a Google link showing virtually countless instances of the phrase “I have seen the future” being used to illustrate the experience of having come upon something that appears to be the wave of the future, and to answer accusations that no one would take the phrase to mean what I said it did. I am quite confident that I have shown an abundance of evidence to prove the phrase means just what I said it did. > [@Lamia](#): > > A rock critic who says “I’ve seen the future of rock and roll, and it is Bruce Springsteen” is making a prediction and using this as an introduction to his own original comments about Springsteen. If he wrote “I’ve seen the future…” and followed it up with someone else’s article about The Boss then that would be plagiarism. And I was making a humorous prediction about what the future held with Democrats in charge of Congress, and the parody served the same function as Springsteen did in the rock critic’s statement. The OP was the _subject_ of the phrase, not the elucidation of it. > [@Lamia](#): > > “I’ve seen the future” doesn’t mean “I wrote the rest of this myself” and it doesn’t mean “I didn’t write the rest of this myself”. It has nothing to do with authorship at all. Not even a little. I suppose it’s lost on you that you just made one of my key points for me. I was accused early in the thread of using the phrase to lead people into thinking I had written the OP. I was castigated and called names when I denied it. Other posters, some of whom have been adversaries, offered their observations that the phrase didn’t mean I had written it, and that they weren’t led to believe that I had written it. It seems to be mostly people with a pre-existing axe to grind where I’m concerned who are hanging on to this meme and the accusations of plagiarism, and frankly you seem to fit into this category to a certain extent yourself. > [@Lamia](#): > > As we like to remind ourselves from time to time, this board is supposed to be about fighting ignorance. If you have suffered from some genuine misunderstanding as to what constitutes plagiarism then I think I have now done all that I can to clear that up. It’s been a busman’s holiday for me since I have to do the “avoiding plagiarism” presentation all the time at work, but fighting ignorance is fighting ignorance. Still, I can see when I’m beat. If after all this you still want to insist that “the phrase ‘I’ve seen the future’ should have been enough” then that’s it for me. I’ll be forced to conclude that you’re either hopelessly ignorant or an utterly shameless liar, and either way I have better things to do with my time. I’m not “insisting” that the phrase should have been enough; I merely offered my belief that is should have. I didn’t harp on it or engage in any other type of behavior that one would normally think of as “insisting”. And finally, I took the advice of some the more reasonable posters to this therad and aplologized, yet you’re still on about all this. I am about at the same point with you as you are with me. I’ve explained all this as well as I’m able. If you still can’t see my points, then like you with me, I’m done trying to persuade you. I’ll look forward to your response should you decide to post one. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/253 "2009-02-28T08:14:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ll look forward to your response should you decide to post one. Care to comment on your plagiarism/lack-of-plagiarism per the guidelines I posted earlier in the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/254 "2009-02-28T08:21:21Z")
Oh, and I should note that starting from the OP it takes me (if I’m counting correctly) a total of sixteen keystrokes or mouseclicks to find the relevant Snopes page. That’s not a whole helluva lot of effort to take in order to track down an attribution. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/255 "2009-02-28T08:36:09Z")
I must have overlooked your guidelines post. I’ll look at it and comment on it tomorrow. I’m done for tonight. As far as your second post, are you suggesting that upon having received an humorous and anonymous forwarding email from a relative that I should have run around looking for attribution before posting it as a gag? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/256 "2009-02-28T12:38:39Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > What I make of it is that you’re a useless cunt. > > Fuck you, you fucking troll. > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > **Mod note:** Knock it off, please. Starving Artist, I take it back; you’re not entirely useless. Ed, I’m not so sure about. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/257 "2009-02-28T14:14:43Z")
I’m increasingly confused by the idea that the OP is opposed to welfare for the retarded. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/258 "2009-02-28T15:51:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps you wouldn’t mind pointing out just which posters deserve an apology. Most of the ones I can think of were assholes right out of the gate, and motivated mostly by ire over things I’ve said in the past. ( I have no ire about what you have said in the past, I read the OP and thought it was your own work, and I think one sends a sincere apology to all or one is not apologizing at all. See the recent ex-Bishop for a good example. “I am sorry if/that you were upset” is NOT an apology. “I am sorry that I upset you” is an apology. Modify as needed, and don’t forget to quote the original source 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/259 "2009-02-28T16:16:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I disagree. Plagiarism goes to context. It requires dishonest intent. No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > \*Now plagiarism, as I understand it and as defined by M-W, requires deliberate intent to pass off something as one’s own. \*No, it doesn’t. Anyone who’s curious may Google “unintentional plagiarism” and see the many, many writing guides that discuss this issue and how it might be avoided. Note however that “unintentional plagiarism” is usually something like paraphrasing a quote or borrowing an idea without citing the original author, or failing to attribute a short quote. Cutting and pasting an entire article would rarely, if ever, be considered anything other than intentional plagiarism of the most blatant kind. > [@](#): > > \*It seems to be mostly people with a pre-existing axe to grind where I’m concerned who are hanging on to this meme and the accusations of plagiarism, and frankly you seem to fit into this category to a certain extent yourself. \*I teach people about plagiarism and how to avoid it as part of my job. That is the axe I have to grind, fighting ignorance on the subject of plagiarism. Your OP is as clear an instance of plagiarism as there can be. The facts are not in dispute here. You cut and pasted an entire article into your OP without attributing it or even stating that it was not your own writing. This is plagiarism any way you slice it. There is no possible circumstance that would make it not plagiarism. Every time you have claimed that it was not you were either deliberately lying or stubbornly ignorant. Either way you are wrong. Maybe you haven’t noticed this before, but on this board people don’t take kindly to the posting of information that is factually incorrect – especially not when the poster keeps doing so after having been repeatedly corrected. You may have made a careless but innocent mistake when you posted the OP without saying it was not your own writing, but your behavior after that point cannot be similarly excused. I can certainly see why so many people here dislike you. You clearly care more about your ego than the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Brad\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8dc957/32.png) [@Brad\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brad_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486/260 "2009-02-28T16:18:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I must have overlooked your guidelines post. I’ll look at it and comment on it tomorrow. I’m done for tonight. > > As far as your second post, are you suggesting that upon having received an humorous and anonymous forwarding email from a relative that I should have run around looking for attribution before posting it as a gag? What you shouldn’t have done is taken credit for it, which by posting it under your name with no hint that it wasn’t yours, you did. But, this just shows WHY the government regulations and interference that you cry about are needed. People like you would gladly steal other people’s work or property for your own, so the honest people need protections from the thieves. And, like most thieves, you cry about how horrible and unfair it is that you got caught. Yes, this is a very small example, but it establishes that you don’t have a problem with stealing from others if you feel you won’t get caught. The question now is how much you feel like you could get away with. I guess that’s what your ilk is like though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-seen-the-future-and-this-is-it/487486.md?page=14)