# I've solved the government, just tell me how to do it **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192 "2016-04-04T19:21:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/21 "2016-04-06T16:39:45Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Sure, but why does rural Nebraska get 1/50th of the vote, same as New York City? I meant _size_ of geographical area shouldn’t matter for representation, just population. I’m sure Nebraskans would disagree… one of the many hurdles to change. This is why we have a bicameral system. If all states have the same voting rights (the Senate), that means rural Nebraska is just as important as New York City. This is obviously incorrect, because the two are in no way equal. HOWEVER, if all states have proportional voting rights (the House), that means that the concerns of New York would completely dominate Nebraska. If New Yorkers tried to impose a law that makes no sense on Nebraska, the Nebraskans would be unable to resist. The bicameral system acknowledges that both of these ideas are flawed. That is why the Senate and the House must both agree on a law. The House ensures that the more populous states have some degree of power commensurate to their size, while the Senate ensures that the little guys still have the opportunity to be heard. > [@steronz](#): > > Yeah, I paid attention and I understand the history, and I’m sure it worked pretty well in the days of a massively disenfranchised electorate and horseback riding, but the times, they have a-changed. I don’t see the need anymore. Then you must have been living under a rock. The first example that comes to my mind is the issue of illegal immigration. Why should a populous city like San Francisco or Los Angeles be able to dictate federal immigration laws that apply to somewhere like Arizona? If you are an Arizona farmer living on the border, illegal human trafficking is a very real danger that a person in San Francisco doesn’t have to live with. On the other hand, letting someone like Sherrif Joe dictate the entire nation’s response to immigration is an equally terrible idea, so they have to find some way to balance these concerns. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/22 "2016-04-06T17:47:38Z")
Look, I hear you and I disagree. The point of this thread isn’t to convince anyone that the back-of-a-napkin government I came up with is the absolute best one. The point is to figure out how one would go about getting _any_ sweeping changes, of which I gave hypothetical examples, into the constitution. So far the only actual response here is simply, “You can’t, for the reasons you’ve already identified,” but fuck me if that isn’t unsatisfying. Ya know? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/23 "2016-04-06T18:00:34Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Sure, but why does rural Nebraska get 1/50th of the vote, same as New York City? I meant _size_ of geographical area shouldn’t matter for representation, just population. I’m sure Nebraskans would disagree… one of the many hurdles to change. Read \*\*bump’s \*\*post. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/24 "2016-04-06T18:13:25Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Look, I hear you and I disagree. The point of this thread isn’t to convince anyone that the back-of-a-napkin government I came up with is the absolute best one. The point is to figure out how one would go about getting _any_ sweeping changes, of which I gave hypothetical examples, into the constitution. So far the only actual response here is simply, “You can’t, for the reasons you’ve already identified,” but fuck me if that isn’t unsatisfying. Ya know? Yeah, I get that you want us to just _accept_ that your ideas would be an improvement over the existing system, and talk about how/whether they could be implemented… > [@steronz](#): > > Now that my superior vision of government is established, is there any reality where enacting these sorts of major constitutional changes is remotely plausible? … > But… could it be done? But, sorry, most of us don’t think your ideas are _worth_ implementing. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/25 "2016-04-06T18:15:28Z")
You guys must be fun at parties. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/26 "2016-04-06T19:30:35Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > You guys must be fun at parties. Well, _pity_ parties don’t encourage it. But if you must know how to implement radical systematic change, you need to build and launch a series of orbital mind-control lasers and take mental command of about 1000 Americans, all of whom are members of Congress or various state legislatures, and get them to vote on the appropriate constitutional amendments. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/27 "2016-04-07T01:17:04Z")
**I’ve solved the government, just tell me how to do it** 1] Nuke New York City, make sure everyone know you mean business. 2] Kill everyone in Congress … and their staffers. 3] Issue demands 4] Invade with 10,000,000 soldiers and cover them with a mess of F-15’s That’s a good start, will we need to call you King or something? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/28 "2016-04-07T04:41:24Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > A lot of people seem disatisfied with the way our government works. I don’t claim to be an expert, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I’ve seen various ideas that make a lot of sense. I think we should eliminate the senate (because geographical area should mean nothing for representation), increase the size of the house by 3 or 4 or 10 fold (to make each rep beholden to a smaller constituency), implement proportional representation in the house (to deter a two-party system), and eliminate first-past-the-post voting in favor of preferential voting at all levels (to deter strategic voting, gerrymandering, etc). > > Now that my superior vision of government is established, is there any reality where enacting these sorts of major constitutional changes is remotely plausible? Hurdle number 1 is getting the Ds and the Rs to agree to work together to vastly reduce their own power. Hurdle number 2 is convincing the American people that New is Better, and Hurdle number 3 would be figuring out how to actually pull together a constitutional convention to overhaul the thing. > > But… could it be done? Don’t know about all that. You cannot just ignore the fact that states existed before the nation and have their own sovereignty. Why would the states voluntarily give up even more sovereignty by holding a constitutional convention and getting rid of the senate? Proportional representation along party lines is also a very bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/29 "2016-04-07T07:41:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > You don’t really describe what “problem” of government you are trying to solve. What many people don’t realize is that the inefficiency, bureaucracy and inability of government to “get stuff done” is by design. You know why “got stuff done”? The Nazis. This. The system was deliberately engineered to prevent what is known as the “tyranny of the majority”. As noted the last thing we want is something that makes it easier to get stuff done. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/30 "2016-04-07T07:46:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’d argue that what might actually be useful would be going \*\*back \*\*to having the state legislatures choose the senators, rather than direct popular vote. This would further divorce them from popular vagaries and stupidities, and allow them to better fulfill the stabilizing role that the Senate was intended to fill. How is it stabilizing to have vacancies that last for years every time control of a bicameral state legislature is divided? The 17th Amendment wasn’t _just_ some idealistic thing. Legislative elections to the Senate were fundamentally broken and corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/31 "2016-04-07T10:33:47Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > How is it stabilizing to have vacancies that last for years every time control of a bicameral state legislature is divided? > > The 17th Amendment wasn’t _just_ some idealistic thing. Legislative elections to the Senate were fundamentally broken and corrupt. Absolutely. From [Wikipedia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Issues) > [@](#): > > Between 1891 and 1905, 46 elections were deadlocked, in 20 different states; in one extreme example, a Senate seat for Delaware went unfilled from 1899 until 1903. The business of holding elections also caused great disruption in the state legislatures, with a full third of the Oregon House of Representatives choosing not to swear the oath of office in 1897 due to a dispute over an open Senate seat. The result was that the legislature was unable to pass legislation that year. In short not something you’d want to go back to. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192/32 "2016-04-07T19:26:07Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > . . . The 17th Amendment wasn’t _just_ some idealistic thing. Legislative elections to the Senate were fundamentally broken and corrupt. Also the power of some states’ governors to appoint Senators to partial terms. The Blagojevitch scandal wasn’t all that long ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-solved-the-government-just-tell-me-how-to-do-it/751192.md?page=1)