# I've suddenly become mortally petrified of undergoing general anaesthetic (personal identity Q) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650 "2014-02-06T10:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/321 "2014-04-28T16:06:21Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > I don’t know how people think it’s consoling to say “one second you have a mask on, and then as quick as you blink you’re back in the operating room”. That to me is absolutely terrifying. These people either believe in a soul or believe that consciousness can be explained in purely physical terms - two concepts I reject. It’s not meant to be consoling… the Versed/propofol type of amnestic sedatives don’t actually make you unconscious. They just stop the DVR, so to speak. Like I mentioned upthread, when I had surgery, I was sitting up, talking to a nurse when they gave it to me. I apparently continued to talk for another 15 minutes. I also picked up my roommate after an endoscopy where he was given Versed- we had a very pleasant lunch and conversation for about an hour, and we went back home, where he took a nap and doesn’t remember a thing. He was definitely conscious, aware and had access to his long-term memories. The question as I see it, is: At what point would you stop being you? At the point that you don’t remember or the point when you actually go unconscious? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/322 "2014-04-28T17:51:04Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s not meant to be consoling… the Versed/propofol type of amnestic sedatives don’t actually make you unconscious. They just stop the DVR, so to speak. > > Like I mentioned upthread, when I had surgery, I was sitting up, talking to a nurse when they gave it to me. I apparently continued to talk for another 15 minutes. I also picked up my roommate after an endoscopy where he was given Versed- we had a very pleasant lunch and conversation for about an hour, and we went back home, where he took a nap and doesn’t remember a thing. He was definitely conscious, aware and had access to his long-term memories. > > The question as I see it, is: At what point would you stop being you? At the point that you don’t remember or the point when you actually go unconscious? Do you think that were it not for the amnesia-inducing drugs, that one would have the feeling of time passing after waking up from GA? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/323 "2014-04-28T18:04:16Z")
Your faith based philosophy has no factual evidence to support it. I’ll be happy to create a church for your new belief so you can make contributions and get a tax deduction, if you would like…or maybe you should have you new self get back to me tomorrow afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/324 "2014-04-28T18:20:03Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Your faith based philosophy has no factual evidence to support it. I hope you are right, and that my reasoning is deeply flawed and incorrect, and that I am just too low IQ to see it. I think my argument holds weight, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/325 "2014-04-28T18:49:32Z")
Everything is going to be fine. You’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/326 "2014-04-28T19:39:58Z")
Not a moment is passing without me thinking about it. Worst of all, I have no one with me to talk to. My family is hundreds of miles away. I’m just in a room panicking by myself. I’ve been watching gruesome war movies in order to feel some sort of companionship with the dead. The posters in this thread and some other random people on Skype (who wouldn’t really understand my fears) are the only people I have been talking to for two weeks. I have the fear of death in me. I believe if my current stream of consciousness makes it through this, I will be a changed person. I may end up being far more courageous. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/327 "2014-04-28T19:47:46Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > I believe if my current stream of consciousness makes it through this, I will be a changed person. I may end up being far more courageous. After the surgery, if you find yourself far more courageous, would that then mean your consciousness in fact did survive? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/328 "2014-04-28T19:56:30Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > I believe if my current stream of consciousness makes it through this, I will be a changed person. Under your philosophy, how will you know? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/329 "2014-04-28T19:56:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > After the surgery, if you find yourself far more courageous, would that then mean your consciousness in fact did survive? You’ve got nothing fear but this guy. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/330 "2014-04-28T19:56:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > After the surgery, if you find yourself far more courageous, would that then mean your consciousness in fact did survive? If it is my current stream of consciousness that does, then yes. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/331 "2014-04-28T19:59:16Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > If it is my current stream of consciousness that does, then yes. But you’ve admitted that if your hypothesis is true, you have no way to distinguish between the two streams of consciousness. There’s no way to tell them apart in the unlikely event that some bizarre sort of reboot happens. So you’ll never know the answer to your question, correct? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/332 "2014-04-28T20:06:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But you’ve admitted that if your hypothesis is true, you have no way to distinguish between the two streams of consciousness. There’s no way to tell them apart in the unlikely event that some bizarre sort of reboot happens. So you’ll never know the answer to your question, correct? Actually, only I will know if I made it through. My replicated self would be 100% convinced, but only “I” can truly know, and I would never be able to 100% communicate my certainty because my replicate would be equally certain. It will only be my current stream of consciousness that will know if I made it through, no-one else, not even my potential replicate. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/333 "2014-04-28T20:16:59Z")
I am still not clear on how the spontaneous replication of your consciousness occurs. You believe your current consciousness dies during anesthesia. So where does your replicated consciousness come from? It can’t come from your brain or body; they are dead. It can’t come from outside your brain or body; that implies some kind of metaphysics. So where does it come from? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/334 "2014-04-28T20:25:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am still not clear on how the spontaneous replication of your consciousness occurs. You believe your current consciousness dies during anesthesia. So where does your replicated consciousness come from? It can’t come from your brain or body; they are dead. It can’t come from outside your brain or body; that implies some kind of metaphysics. So where does it come from? It would come from my brain, but it would be a new stream. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/335 "2014-04-28T20:30:55Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > It would come from my brain, but it would be a new stream. So the anesthesia causes the old consciousness to die, but doesn’t cause the source of the new consciousness to die? What is the difference between the old consciousness, and the source in the brain for the new consciousness? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/336 "2014-04-28T20:38:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So the anesthesia causes the old consciousness to die, but doesn’t cause the source of the new consciousness to die? What is the difference between the old consciousness, and the source in the brain for the new consciousness? The exact same difference between you and the hypothetical clone of you in the teleporter scenario. Disruption of conscious continuity = dead. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/337 "2014-04-28T20:40:03Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > Not a moment is passing without me thinking about it. Worst of all, I have no one with me to talk to. My family is hundreds of miles away. I’m just in a room panicking by myself. I’ve been watching gruesome war movies in order to feel some sort of companionship with the dead. The posters in this thread and some other random people on Skype (who wouldn’t really understand my fears) are the only people I have been talking to for two weeks. > > I have the fear of death in me. I believe if my current stream of consciousness makes it through this, I will be a changed person. I may end up being far more courageous. You know, the biggest problem might be that this is not a great frame of mind to be in when preparing for an operation. I strongly suggest you tell the anaesthetist that you are really nervous and get them to pre-medicate you appropriately. Last minute panic and flailing around when they are trying to put you under could result in injury or even cancellation of the surgery. Don’t make that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/338 "2014-04-28T20:41:32Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > The exact same difference between you and the hypothetical clone of you in the teleporter scenario. Disruption of conscious continuity = dead. Right now, where are the mental processes that your brain was performing yesterday? Where are they now? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/339 "2014-04-28T20:45:38Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Right now, where are the mental processes that your brain was performing yesterday? Where are they now? I’m not really sure how to answer this. They are gone. And yes, I will ask the anesthesiologist (spelling?) to take into consideration my crippling fear of this operation. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/340 "2014-04-28T20:47:32Z")
How will you know? You don’t think the old you will be looking down from heaven, do you? If you DO die, it will happen when you’re unable to experience it. The old you will never know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650.md?page=18)