# I've suddenly become mortally petrified of undergoing general anaesthetic (personal identity Q) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650 "2014-02-06T10:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/341 "2014-04-28T20:52:37Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > How will you know? You don’t think the old you will be looking down from heaven, do you? If you DO die, it will happen when you’re unable to experience it. The old you will never know. What I mean is that I will know if I survived, not if I had died. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/342 "2014-04-28T20:53:26Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > I’m not really sure how to answer this. They are gone. Exactly. The continuity between the ‘you’ of yesterday and now is provided by your current memories of your past actions and experiences. The remembered events are gone. The you of yesterday only exists because you remember it. Any time you wake up and remember being you, there you are. In the teleporter scenario, any number of 'you’s could be so created - if it were technically possible, which it may never be. And each one of those 'you’s would be you. They just wouldn’t be each other. This last bit is confusing and counter-intuitive because it’s a description of an utterly alien scenario. > [@](#): > > And yes, I will ask the anesthesiologist (spelling?) to take into consideration my crippling fear of this operation. Good. Everything is going to be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/343 "2014-04-28T20:56:02Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > The exact same difference between you and the hypothetical clone of you in the teleporter scenario. There is no such thing as a teleporter. It is a fictitious device, with no basis in science or reality. How does your brain store a copy of your consciousness that can survive anesthesia? You are engaging in magical thinking that goes from the hypothetical death of your consciousness to the rebooting from the brain, without explaining the process and science of just how that occurs. You can’t just say something “happens” without filling in the blanks. Just because your are obsessed with it does no make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/344 "2014-04-28T20:59:30Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > It will only be my current stream of consciousness that will know if I made it through, no-one else, not even my potential replicate. Your “stream of consciousness” isn’t self-aware - it’s not clear that it even exists in any meaningful sense. Didn’t you say you were under GA earlier in your childhood? Are you not occupying/inhabiting/managing the same “stream of consciousness” that you were born with? What has the impact of that been on your life? The bottom line is you have an irrational fear, and there’s little or nothing you can do to reduce your anxiety about the situation. Logical arguments won’t help because you didn’t use logic to get into your anxiety. I think your best bet is to accept that if by some wild chance you are correct, you’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/345 "2014-04-28T21:31:47Z")
Does this image clear up my stance? [![](https://i.imgur.com/nARrWsJ.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/nARrWsJ.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/346 "2014-04-28T21:47:06Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > Does this image clear up my stance? Your stance has always been clear, and completely unsupported and contrary to evidence. The picture doesn’t change anything. We know what you’re worried about, but it’s simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/347 "2014-04-28T21:57:00Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Your stance has always been clear, and completely unsupported and contrary to evidence. The picture doesn’t change anything. > > We know what you’re worried about, but it’s simply wrong. Can you summarise in as a few words and as succinctly as you can why I am wrong. I’ve literally been crying today. I’ve been in a constant state of stress for days now. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/348 "2014-04-28T22:04:34Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > Does this image clear up my stance? > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://i.imgur.com/nARrWsJ.jpg) Your stance has never been unclear. That’s not the problem. That image makes some pretty big assumptions and (IMO) leaps to conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/349 "2014-04-28T22:08:16Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > Does this image clear up my stance? > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://i.imgur.com/nARrWsJ.jpg) It’s the same bullshit you’ve been propounding throughout the thread only in diagram form. What makes you think that a drawing of a logical fallacy makes it less fallacious? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/350 "2014-04-28T22:24:21Z")
It tells me that you’re needlessly clinging to a belief that causes you terror. Speaking as someone who’s been clinically depressed and engaged in “wallowing” thought processes previously, you’re essentially choosing to self-harm mentally. You’re doing the mental equivalent of cutting. Please consider choosing to knock it the fuck off and choosing to seek help, and I mean this with the utmost sincerity. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/351 "2014-04-28T22:30:34Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > It tells me that you’re needlessly clinging to a belief that causes you terror. Speaking as someone who’s been clinically depressed and engaged in “wallowing” thought processes previously, you’re essentially choosing to self-harm mentally. You’re doing the mental equivalent of cutting. Please consider choosing to knock it the fuck off and choosing to seek help, and I mean this with the utmost sincerity. Actually I’m doing the opposite right now. I’m trying to hate life as much as possible so that death doesn’t seem as bad. Besides, what am I supposed to do if the sole cause of my worrying right now is the surgery? I can’t just get a hold of a counselor tonight, can I? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/352 "2014-04-28T22:39:02Z")
You’ve had three months to start seeking help. Apparently you thought it was a better use of your time to keep posting the same thing over and over in this thread. Honestly, I’m not entirely convinced that you’re sincere about any of this. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/353 "2014-04-28T22:44:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You’ve had three months to start seeking help. Apparently you thought it was a better use of your time to keep posting the same thing over and over in this thread. > > Honestly, I’m not entirely convinced that you’re sincere about any of this. Because I know my worrying is a result of this surgery. What could the counselor possibly say that hasn’t been said here? Help can come after surgery (if I live). You don’t have to believe I’m sincere. Just think of it as a thought experiment. I’d still like someone to summarise why I am wrong. Just in one paragraph. This will be the last time you have to do it. Soon this complaining will all be over. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/354 "2014-04-28T22:47:47Z")
The surgery is not your problem. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/355 "2014-04-28T22:50:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The surgery is not your problem. The worrying first came about when I first started thinking about what anesthesia is like. The worrying over the past week has intensified almost to the point where I’m finding it difficult to function. I can assure that if I wasn’t undergoing this surgery, I wouldn’t be this stressed right now. Can you at least quickly try to point out the biggest flaw(s) in my argument? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/356 "2014-04-28T22:50:32Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > What I mean is that I will know if I survived, not if I had died. Have you got some secret code that you have hidden from your brain, that only your stream of consciousness knows about? How did you pull that off? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/357 "2014-04-28T22:51:49Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > Can you summarise in as a few words and as succinctly as you can why I am wrong. I’ve literally been crying today. I’ve been in a constant state of stress for days now. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if your surgeon reccomends you see a counselor before performing said surgery. Unless it’s something that needs done ASAP, I myself would not feel comfortable opperating on someone like you. Dude, you’re going to give yourself a heart attack. You’ve stated your fears, over and over repeatedly. They’re not making you feel better. When did you say your surgery was again? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/358 "2014-04-28T22:57:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if your surgeon reccomends you see a counselor before performing said surgery. Unless it’s something that needs done ASAP, I myself would not feel comfortable opperating on someone like you. > > Dude, you’re going to give yourself a heart attack. You’ve stated your fears, over and over repeatedly. They’re not making you feel better. When did you say your surgery was again? Tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/359 "2014-04-28T23:11:55Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > I’d still like someone to summarise why I am wrong. Just in one paragraph. What, again? OK. The **only mechanism your brain has** with which to maintain ‘continuity’ is your memory. If you remember who you are, you are as much yourself as you can possibly be. The teleporter duplication scenario is a complete red herring, but only because it forces us to face the idea that we are no more than the current owner of our memories. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/360 "2014-04-28T23:13:24Z")
Or in other words - continuity is a convenient fiction, like the continuity of the Olympic flame. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650.md?page=19)