# I've suddenly become mortally petrified of undergoing general anaesthetic (personal identity Q) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650 "2014-02-06T10:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/21 "2014-02-06T12:32:15Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > You can dream in your sleep, but people don’t dream when general anesthesia is in full effect. > > Sleep = conscious state still remnant > GA = total lapse of consciousness until it wears out Incorrect. We used to think so, but we now know that about 20% of people dream - and remember their dreams upon waking - under general. [Dreaming while under anesthesia no cause for alarm | Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/02/20/us-dreaming-anesthesia-idUSCOL06020420070220) Look, this really is one of those ontological conundrums that you have to find your own answer for. No one else’s answer is going to feel right. So, do some meditation, prayer or poetry, because those are the realms where you find answers to this kind of problem. Getting laid helps, too. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/22 "2014-02-06T12:39:31Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > I was entirely convinced by Tibby’s argument regarding personal identity when he said\ > > I am genuinely really quite frightened. I will repeat what **VunderBob** asked: Who the hell is Tibby and why would you give any credence to the stuff you quoted? You say you are entirely convinced by his argument, but what you quoted isn’t an argument, it is a couple of bald assertions. You say you are frightened. Are you facing a decision about general anesthesia in the near future? Or are you frightened of something that most people will never experience? Why does life suck? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_York](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/23 "2014-02-06T12:42:16Z")
Well, they took my heart out, gave it a grease and oil change, plus a new valve, and I awoke feeling just the same as before. So you should be just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/24 "2014-02-06T12:50:56Z")
Those interested in what the brain is doing while we’re under anaesthesia may find this [recent Radiolab segment](http://www.radiolab.org/story/anesthesia/)interesting. I don’t know whether that’s likely to help or exacerbate one’s irrational fear of being replaced, though. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/25 "2014-02-06T13:13:25Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#): > > Well, they took my heart out, gave it a grease and oil change, plus a new valve, and I awoke feeling just the same as before. So you should be just fine. I’ve been under general a few times, most recently twice in December, and I will be under again a week from Monday so I can divorce my gall bladder. There is nothing to it. If you are really interested in the concept of the brain rebooting, the closest you’ll find is a grand mal epileptic seizure. The active seizure is analogous to a Windows blue screen, and the calm period following is the reboot process. Happens every day. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/26 "2014-02-06T13:34:22Z")
Since I was wondering who was Tibby too, here’s the post quoted: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16343206&postcount=30](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16343206&postcount=30) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/27 "2014-02-06T13:51:18Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > This same interuption of psychological continuity may apply when undergoing general anaesthetic. I would be numerically and qualitatively identical upon waking up, but would I be a different person when it comes to my consciousness? You seem to be obsessed with mental continuity, but it’s a really overrated way of characterizing consciousness and personality. You, as in your identity, are nothing but a fiction woven by a big fatty wet organ trying to keep itself alive. This fiction is crazily inconsistent and is reinvented wherever necessary, and its central theme is that the preceding clause is not true. So don’t worry. In the sense that you’re describing, you die and are reborn constantly, nobody knows it including you, and it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/28 "2014-02-06T13:52:18Z")
> [@BleizDu](#): > > Since I was wondering who was Tibby too, here’s the post quoted: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16343206&postcount=30](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16343206&postcount=30) Thanks for finding that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/29 "2014-02-06T14:45:52Z")
Since there isn’t a factual answer to this, let’s move it to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/30 "2014-02-06T16:28:24Z")
1. I’ve been under general anesthesia three times, and I have dreamed, and remember my dreams, twice. The dreams do come when I’m nearing the surface as it were, but they come. It’s exactly like dreaming in the morning, in the hour or two before you’re about to wake up. 2. Two functioning brains are not identical. They have different neural pathways that fire in different ways, and that is what makes people themselves. Being asleep or under sedation or having a grand mal seizure does not erase those pathways. They are the same when the person wakes up again, so the person is the same person. A hard drive doesn’t lose all its data when it is powered down, and you don’t stop being you just because you’ve been unconscious. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/31 "2014-02-06T16:32:06Z")
Every second you are slightly different than you were the second before. You are no less ‘you’ when you wake from sleep under anesthetics than you are when you sleep normally. Nor will you be any less ‘you’ this afternoon than you are now, or were 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/32 "2014-02-06T16:49:11Z")
I completely agree with Tibby’s argument when it comes to Star Trek teleporters, so far as I grasp his argument anyway. I will never allow myself to be killed and another version of me created somewhere else just to save a little travel time. The question then becomes: What other situations would cause my complete person to be destroyed and recreated exactly? I want to avoid those as well. General anaesthesia is not one of those situations because the brain continues to function. I’ve been under a lot of times and sometimes you remember things. They’ve never had to reboot my brain at the end of an operation… I don’t think…? I can tell you, whether it was the real me waking up at the end of the operation or an exact copy of me, that guy was glad to be alive. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/33 "2014-02-06T17:37:06Z")
The fear of being replaced with a replicant is silly. I’ve been under three times and still have memories going back to my earliest childhood. I’m still the same guy. My fear of general anesthesia comes from the fact that you’re pretty much guaranteed to wake up feeling a whole lot shittier than before you went under. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/34 "2014-02-06T19:01:29Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > General anesthesia isn’t exactly the same as sleep, but it isn’t all that different either. If you’re worried about one, you should be worried about the other. Do you worry that every time you fall asleep, someone else wakes up? I was experimenting with drugs once, long ago. Over a few episodes I was really focused on how my mind couldn’t completely relax. I felt great and high but part of me was afraid to relax and let go. As I experimented, I had all sorts of seemingly profound thoughts on how it related to my need to be in control, and as I gradually coaxed myself into completely letting go of my conscious thoughts, I became convinced I would be better prepared to accept my own inevitable death. A bit later I realized the whole experience was almost exactly the same as falling asleep, which I’d been doing every single day for years. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/35 "2014-02-06T19:35:52Z")
If you think general anesthetic is fucked up, you should read up on sedatives like Versed. How does THAT play into your terror? ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/36 "2014-02-06T20:28:48Z")
Someone else reiterated my argument on another forum: > [@](#): > > …Maybe field theory could help with this, since, if the brain is generating consciousness (an emergent immaterial field of some sort?) and it stops generating it, then the brain is just an organ, without consciousness, but then it starts generating it again and it reappears. It should be a new entity that appears each time a person wakes from being knocked out or coma. As I said before, even if there’s a 1% chance of this argument being true, it’s still a fatal risk to undergo GA. EDIT: And yes, I’m having surgery soon and will have to go under ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/37 "2014-02-06T20:39:35Z")
> [@LifeSucks](#): > > As I said before, even if there’s a 1% chance of this argument being true, it’s still a fatal risk to undergo GA. There is **always** a tiny but possible chance of death when you undergo general anesthesia, even if everything goes right, and that’s even putting aside the remote possibility of your existential crisis about being mindwiped/replaced/whatever being true. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/38 "2014-02-06T20:43:54Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > There is **always** a tiny but possible chance of death when you undergo general anesthesia, even if everything goes right, and that’s even putting aside the remote possibility of your existential crisis about being mindwiped/replaced/whatever being true. :dubious: I don’t believe being replaced on a conscious level is a “remote possibility”. There is sound reasoning behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/39 "2014-02-06T20:48:08Z")
I’m just saying that if you want to worry about remotely possible bad outcomes of general anesthesia, there are more concrete and proven side effects, like death, memory loss, etc. Being worried that some other identity will take over is (IMO) a rather frivolous concern by comparison, especially since your line of thinking is non-falsifiable. ---
**Author:** ![LifeSucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8c91f0/32.png) [@LifeSucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeSucks)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650/40 "2014-02-06T20:53:22Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I’m just saying that if you want to worry about remotely possible bad outcomes of general anesthesia, there are more concrete and proven side effects, like death, memory loss, etc. Being worried that some other identity will take over is (IMO) a rather frivolous concern by comparison, especially since your line of thinking is non-falsifiable. I wouldn’t say it’s frivolous. Just because it sounds whacky on a social level, it doesn’t mean the fear isn’t justified. So far my reasoning tells me that my conscious state upon being “re-booted” will essentially be another “me”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-suddenly-become-mortally-petrified-of-undergoing-general-anaesthetic-personal-identity-q/680650.md?page=3)