Ok, I see. But doesn’t the continuity factor at least provide a satisfactory illusion that I am me and continue to be me? Going under GA sort of makes it an obvious end. Right now you could argue I am constantly changing, which I may be, but at least it’s a comfortable process. Unlike GA where I will approach the chair and realize “this is the end”.
Dude, you’ll be fine. But please, after this is over, do see about counseling.
I definitely had some self-esteem issues before all this, but this particular incident has consumed my thoughts for the past week more than anything. I just got done crying again. I want to write emails to loved ones saying I love them, but I know it would seem utterly ridiculous to them. I just want someone here 
I genuinely 100% think my reasoning is logical. I’m 50/50 in regards to whether I think I will die or not.
I know I’m repeating myself over and over but I need to vent this all out otherwise I just get really upset and stressed again. This will be the last day of my annoying posts. “I” will check in to say how the surgery went at some point and then I’ll leave this thread die.
Well this bit of reasoning is spot on! It’s indeed 50/50 whether you die or not! Either you will, or you won’t.
There is no evidence for, and much evidence against, the idea that General Anesthesia causes a break in your continued existence. Your concept of a “break in the stream of continuity” not only doesn’t make sense from a scientific standpoint, it’s not even internally consistent since your there’s no place to reboot *from *if you die under GA.
To sum up; your assumptions are wrong and your logic is flawed.
Two points:
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If you KNOW that continuity is a convenient fiction, then what does it matter if GA makes you more aware of it? You keep saying that you know that there is no real continuity of consciousness and then saying that you’re crying and non-functional because you’re worried your continuity will be disrupted. THIS MAKES NO SENSE and is a clear sign that you’re not rational. You might as well panic because after GA you will no longer be Jesus Christ or Napoleon Bonapart or because you will no longer have superpowers.
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You have missed the whole point of continuity being an illusion. It DOESN’T mean that you are already dead (despite what I facetiously posted earlier in the thread–sorry if I wasn’t obvious enough about what I really meant). Because continuity of consciousness doesn’t really exist, we KNOW that your identity does not depend on it. Even if you want to say that lack of continuity really does mean that “you” don’t exist, there is clearly something about what is currently happening (that we refer to as “you” for convenience if nothing else) that you want to continue. Whatever that is, whether a soul, a consciousness, an illusion, whatever, will keep going regardless of continuity just like it does now. It doesn’t depend on continuity now (and you’ve admitted this) so why on earth do you think it would suddenly depend on continuity when you’re in the hospital?
What about the transporter thought experiment? Well it tells us that either you really shouldn’t worry about going through the transporter, or else there is some other reason besides the loss of continuity that makes transporters problematic. Which of those is the case is somewhat of an unsolved problem right now, but we KNOW FOR A FACT that continuity is just a red herring. So stop worrying about it!
Thank you. I actually think you’re correct, but I must ask, why do philosophers continue to talk about continuity if it’s been discarded by everyone? I’m no philosopher and I’m not intimately aware of the discourse that takes place in the discipline, but I do recall psychological continuity being one explanation of consciousness when reading about it before.
Do philosophers actually rely at all on the idea of continuity?
Look at all the discontinuities in our day-to-day experience. Have you ever just sort of “drifted off,” lost in thought? We used to say “woolgathering.” Then, suddenly, you snap back and look around to see if anybody had noticed you getting glassy-eyed.
We all do this. Uncle Peter starts telling one of his golfing stories, and your mind just drifts. Then Ol’ Pete says to you, “Isn’t that right, Nephew?” and you don’t have any idea what anybody was saying for the past minute and a half.
While reading: haven’t you ever lost track of the narrative, and had to go back half a page?
When driving: haven’t you ever arrived at the grocery store, and suddenly realize you have no memory of how you got there?
Our minds operate on several different levels, and we jump around, hopping and scotching, all the time.
I’ve been knocked unconscious, at least twice in my life. Once by a punch to the jaw, and once when I slipped and fell and got a concussion. And I’ve been under full anaesthesia twice.
Millions of people have.
It certainly is preferable to the punch to the jaw!
I hope your surgery is successful and beneficial, and we all, here, wish you the most comfortable possible recovery.
Thank you.
Btw, as a matter of curiosity, how did it feel being knocked out? How long were you knocked out for and did you have any recollection of events closely before and after the knock out?
I was looking at a study of anesthesia just now and it showed that upwards of 22% of patients recall dreaming when asked 1-2 hours after waking up from GA, but that number reduced to around 2-4% as more time passed.
As irrational as it may sound, I am still really frightened. There’s still something I find really uncomfortable with going out cold completely. What’s actually quite remarkable is that it seems these exact fears I have are shared by people who didn’t have any similar philosophical predisposition.
Even so far as thinking about sending goodbye letters to people :eek:
I’ve been knocked unconscious twice.
The first time was when I was hit by a car while I was crossing the street. I lost memories from before I stepped into the street until I regained consciousness. As I woke up I actually first thought I was in bed until I noticed I was lying in the hard pavement.
The second time I was eating while about to cross the street and I choked and fell unconscious. I don’t remember falling and hitting the ground but I have some memory of not being able to breathe. I woke up as my wife called to me and shook me.
In both cases I woke up as if from sleep. In neither case did I feel like there was a break in my continued existence.
I have also been under general anaesthesia twice.
Unlucky. I’ve been trying my best to recall the time I underwent GA in my youth and the whole memory is blurry. I remember being on the chair and then I remember being taken to a door and crying saying “I hate you!” to everyone around me.
Argh, the whole thing is so scary to me…
You’ll be fine. Seriously. I’ve only had conscious sedation, but both times I dozed off and I remember dreaming (I don’t remember the dreams themselves, but I know I dreamed) I’ve also had seizures before, and I KNOW that I’m still the same person that I was before. The brain doesn’t work the way you think it does.
Now please, relax and get well soon!
Thank you. I appreciate your kind words.
When the guy belted me, I felt nothing. One second, I see him pulling back his fist. The next second, some friends are picking me up off the floor. There was absolutely nothing in between.
(In a weird way, I got off light. I never felt the actual punch at all!)
When I fell and had a concussion, it was exactly like going to sleep. I slipped, I fell, hard. I felt a bit stunned, so I just lay where I was. I slept a bit. Then I woke up, just as if from ordinary sleep. I was a bit confused, just at first, for only a second or two. “Where am I? Oh, yeah, now I remember…”
However…while I was out, I was having seizures and spasms. Jerking and thrashing. This was told to me by my sister, who was watching, in some alarm.
So, I’m guessing it was a small concussion.
I have a lot of very close friends and family, and if I were “someone else” now, I’m sure they would have noticed.
Anaesthetic was exactly like going to sleep. “What happens now?..zzzzzzzzzz.” Awakening was exactly like waking up from sleep.
Take courage: courage consists in large part of doing what you have to do anyway. It isn’t so much overcoming fear, as simply facing it.
(Easy for me to say: I’m a terrible coward. Also, phobic. I’d rather have minor surgery than look at a photo of a tarantula.)
Memory is continuity. It’s the only continuity.
I think the reason we find this difficult to viscerally accept is that it seems to imply we are somehow less special than we might like to be.
Of course that’s only one possible viewpoint. The notion that something that is really composed of lots of separate pieces, including the echoes of events that are no more, could regard itself as a whole entity, is pretty special.
There’s also the fact that long term memory is chemical rather than electrical. Things are stored electrically temporarily, then the important bits are stored chemically - which is why you can remember your first kiss but not your 3812th (unless the latter was particularly good! 
). It’s also why a lot of people who have accidents and are knocked out not only don’t remember the time immediately afterwards, but also the time immediately before, as the brain never got a chance to add that stuff to chemical storage. At least, this is what I’ve heard many times.
So, the GA isn’t going to interfere with your memories other than those of the event itself. They mess with your RAM, not your hard drive.
And yet it’s incredibly plastic.
Indeed - and perception itself is all a bit of a bodge.
This whole thread is making me want to watch Memento again.