# I've taken the first step to become a member of the AA. Will the 'spirituality' be a problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872 "2010-01-14T02:17:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/21 "2010-01-14T15:12:37Z")
Why should you care what other people believe? AA works,yet obviously it has nothing to do with a higher power, since we all know that animal does not exist. Stick around, and you might put your finger on the active ingredient and start a program for atheists. ---
**Author:** ![mo50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@mo50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mo50)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/22 "2010-01-14T15:22:21Z")
If it’s any help, a supervisor of mine when I worked as an addicitions counselor had an interesting take on the God aspect of 12 step. He was a very rational, intelligent guy, I wouldn’t doubt if he too was an atheist, but he felt the God/ higher power thing served as a tool to trick the ego into another way of processing the life experience, giving it permission to release it’s illusion of control over the addiction, a way of thinking that got the person in trouble in the first place. It was a common saying among recovering addicts that “No one’s too dumb to get sober, but plenty of people are too smart.” All the best with it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/23 "2010-01-14T15:48:19Z")
No advice, but wanted to give you my best wishes for a permanent recovery. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/24 "2010-01-14T16:04:16Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Why should you care what other people believe? AA works,yet obviously it has nothing to do with a higher power, since we all know that animal does not exist. > . Wait are you saying there is nothing more powerful than the individual? Don’t nature, the universe, family, and community exist? I am not in AA, but of friends who are, and are not religious, these types of things are their “higher power” – some force greater than themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/25 "2010-01-14T16:31:34Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Why should you care what other people believe? AA works,yet obviously it has nothing to do with a higher power, since we all know that animal does not exist. I think Lobbers is mostly concerned about the possibility of being browbeaten by those that _do_ attribute a higher power. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/26 "2010-01-14T16:41:56Z")
No. This most definitely will NOT be a problem. A friend of mine has been attending AA meetings for over 20 years. She’s about as 100% humanist/atheist as it is possible to be. I’ve even been to an AA meeting with her (I was there just as her friend and as a respectful observer… no, really. I may have my demons, but booze isn’t one of them.) It’s true that the charter refers to ‘a higher power’ but as my friend says, this can be anything you want; you can interpret it in any way that is meaningful to you. It doesn’t have to equate to a ‘deity’ as worshipped in any religion. As I understand it from having talked with my friend, it’s about learning an _appropriate_ and _constructive_ amount of humility and saying to yourself, ‘I’ve tried to cope with this on my own, and it hasn’t worked as I’m still not sober. I need to be honest with myself about it, and acknowledge that I need to take some positive action to get the help I need to beat this problem and stay sober’. As opposed to the ‘I can take care of it / I could quit any time I want’ self-delusional mentality of someone who thinks they can or could solve it by themselves. My friend says that for her the ‘higher power’ is simply the support and re-enforcement she derives from regularly attending the meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/27 "2010-01-14T17:09:18Z")
After decades in AA, I define my spirituality as trying to behave the way my own set of morals and ethics dictate. When I’m more honest, more patient, more forgiving, then I’m being more spiritual, and am working the 2nd and 3rd steps. When I’m being dishonest, intolerant, selfish, and so forth, then I’m not working those steps nor am I being spiritual. A lot of AA’ers share this viewpoint; it works for us. But whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/28 "2010-01-14T17:11:24Z")
The best part is that roadside assistance is only a telephone call away. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/29 "2010-01-14T17:59:03Z")
I quit drinking about 4 1/2 years ago. My insurance at the time was an HMO (Kaiser), and they put me through a group therapy program that lasted four months (I could have gone as long as I wanted had I felt I needed it). It was just a session I would go to every evening, where a group of us would discuss alcohol & drugs & staying sober with a couple of counselors - not different from AA, really, but things like “God” and “spirituality” were never discussed. Perhaps there’s something like that you could look into? When I quit, I was in the same boat you are. I am, and always have been, atheist, and I can’t see any difference between “spirituality” and “religion”. It’s all nonsense to me. I tried going to a few AA meetings in the beginning, but I never could wrap my head around the whole “higher power” concept. That being said, I want to make it clear that I have nothing but respect for AA, I think it’s a wonderful program that has helped many people. It just wasn’t for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/30 "2010-01-14T18:16:37Z")
Yep, I’ve heard people define the “higher power” as physics or nature…or the biological fact that they are slowly poisoning themselves (or quickly poisoning themselves). Seems to simply be a statement that “life does not work like you WANT it to, and there are things outside your control.” ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/31 "2010-01-14T20:17:17Z")
Just writing to wish you the best. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/32 "2010-01-14T21:26:38Z")
Thanks all. I have had a second call with a different person. I will be going to a meeting on Sunday. Most of the replies in this thread are suggesting go with it (only a few suggesting the higher-power thing was a problem) so I’ll take that as a big vote of ‘yes’ from the dope. Reading through these replies I’ve started to wonder if my higher power could be evolution - that which has led to a body and brain that was not evolved to deal with addictive substances. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/33 "2010-01-14T22:09:45Z")
As far as I can understand it (which may not be saying much), this ‘higher power’ seems to need to be an external constant to which you can defer when and if you feel you have nothing within your own self that will resolve the problem you’re facing. In which case, maybe you could have a ‘higher power’ that consists of a binding agreement or resolution lodged with someone you know and trust. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/34 "2010-01-14T22:42:50Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > I’ve started to wonder if my higher power could be evolution - that which has led to a body and brain that was not evolved to deal with addictive substances. Or why not choose Cecil?! Seriously, good for you for taking this step, and I think you’ll find it’s a good step to take. I hope you derive from it the help you feel you need, and that it’s the start of a really good process for you. Earlier in this thread I referred to a friend of mine who once had a drink problem. She nearly killed herself and some other people by driving while drunk, and that’s when she decided to make a phone call (to AA). She has now been sober for 25 years, is a happy and successful person with a good, well-paid job and a great partner. Not saying it’s gonna be easy, just saying it can be done. Good luck, and you know the entire Doper community is here for you any time you want us to give you a little more support and encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Bobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@King\_Bobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Bobo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/35 "2010-01-14T22:55:02Z")
It may be that I am totally out to lunch here, but can you not have a part of yourself as a “higher power”? A “god” unto yourself. That which is within you to reach for and desire for a better life for yourself and family. An ideal “you” that is higher than your now self? Just a thought - I have no knowledge of the 12 steps so maybe I miss the point. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/36 "2010-01-14T23:03:03Z")
Very best wishes for a successful recovery. A suggestion for you: pretty much every religion is at heart an exhortation to do your best. They just differ on the details. So think about what would be your best and try to hold to that. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/37 "2010-01-14T23:21:30Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > Or why not choose Cecil?! You know, I’m not the biggest fan of the whole cult of Cecil, but that there is quite brilliant suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/38 "2010-01-14T23:41:03Z")
Reading your first post, ok you have a problem but are so worried about holding your tongue when God is invoked in any way. OK, why is it Atheists always do not want others to believe either and have to tell them so, and why is promoting a belief in nothing-ness more important than getting the help with the problem? Why can’t you ignore it? I just never have figured out what the down side of a belief in God would be, if he is not there, well would it matter? So why does it matter to you so much? Go get the help. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/39 "2010-01-15T00:33:30Z")
The reference to Higher Power is symbolic. What you are being asked to do is to understand you are part of something bigger than yourself, I chose to interpert it as “The collective unconcious” but you could easily say it is your mother’s love as I know one bloke who did. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872/40 "2010-01-15T00:57:28Z")
First, you are doing the right thing and I wish you good luck and success. I checked myself into a detox / rehab facility and had to attend AA meetings daily. I carried a small piece of quartz in one pocket and used that as my personal higher power because a quartz crystal is about the best representation of order out of chaos that I’ve ever known. My life was chaotic and I needed order, so that worked for me. Maybe you have some token or some person who personifies what you need; if you do, you’ve already found your higher power. Actually, you yourself might be your higher power. In any case, I wish you the best of luck on this journey you are taking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ive-taken-the-first-step-to-become-a-member-of-the-aa-will-the-spirituality-be-a-problem/524872.md?page=3)