# Ivermectin Isn't Horse Medicine! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 31, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831 "2021-08-31T16:18:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/101 "2021-09-05T16:26:59Z")
I used to say I was taking rat poison to avert blood clots. The name of the active ingredient is warfarin and it is used for rat poison. I am aware that it is also used for humans, in smaller doses. After all I took it until my doctor put me on Eliquis as a blood thinner instead. I think it is fine to call Ivermectin a horse medicine, even if it is also used for parasites in humans. We could perhaps call it a de-wormer instead? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/102 "2021-09-05T16:55:57Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Rolling Stone was wrong once in 2014, too. The funny part about it is that Fox News was wrong 2,014 times last week. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/103 "2021-09-05T17:04:16Z")
But hey, both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/104 "2021-09-05T17:07:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Do you have a more reliable citation than a right-wing publication founded by Tucker Carlson, or a radio station owned by a guy who also owns a gospel radio station? You’re saying [they just might have an agenda?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blm-protestors-were-given-up-to-15-years-in-jail-over-last-years-protests/946849/19) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/105 "2021-09-05T17:12:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > [https://www.kxmx.com/post/ivermectin-overdose-not-an-issue-at-sallisaw-emergency-room-or-hospital](https://www.kxmx.com/post/ivermectin-overdose-not-an-issue-at-sallisaw-emergency-room-or-hospital) I do wonder who is telling the truth here. Right now we have a he said she said situation. If she had said that he was exaggerating, and that the hospitals are not _overwhelmed_, then I’d probably believe her. But that she says they haven’t had _any_, I find to be a bit unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/106 "2021-09-05T17:16:49Z")
I’d believe the hospital’s official statement released on their website over the statement of one doctor who apparently hasn’t even been working there for the last two months. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/107 "2021-09-05T18:24:52Z")
I wasn’t aware that the Dr. had named that particular hospital with his claims, yet that singular hospital issued a rebuttal. Do you know where it is that he named them as the hospital in question? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/108 "2021-09-05T18:26:54Z")
Actually, now that I look into it further, I’m not sure what relevance the hospital’s statement has. “Dr. McElyea said patients are packing his eastern and southeastern Oklahoma hospitals after taking ivermectin doses meant for a full-sized horse” vs. "With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose." I’m not sure where it he claimed anything about the Sallisaw location, nor anything about the Northeastern Health System. Be like someone claiming that Burger King serves horse meat, and McDonalds making a statement that the claimant doesn’t work for McDonalds, and that they’ve never, ever, sold horse meat. Both doesn’t actually refute the claim in anyway, and also makes me wonder if McDonalds serves horse meat. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/109 "2021-09-05T18:30:07Z")
Eh, more like someone claiming fast food restaurants served horse meat and Burger King, where the person was a cashier, saying, “To be clear, this guy is no longer with us and BTW no, we don’t serve horse meat.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/110 "2021-09-05T18:47:41Z")
One of _many_ places that he was a cashier, as well as being in a group of other cashiers. And of course, having been a fast food cashier, I was often in charge of unloading trucks, so if your analogy of cashier was to imply that he wouldn’t actually know what was going on behind the scenes, I would dispute that both on the grounds that as a doctor, he _would_ know what is going on behind the scenes, as does your friendly neighborhood fast food cashier. > **['This is not just COVID': Domino effect backs up Oklahoma hospitals, with no...](https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/watch-now-this-is-not-just-covid-domino-effect-backs-up-oklahoma-hospitals-with-no/article_20c0d850-0a62-11ec-a376-e7df03dd09bf.html)** > > Oklahoma has 200 fewer staffed beds in the state than in December. “That is very much a concern because we know there’s a great deal of fatigue right now of Has several people of many positions in the state’s healthcare system talking about how scarce ICU room is in most hospitals in OK, that they are even having to transfer patients out of state. This is of course because of COVID, but it also means that just one bed occupied by someone who has poisoned himself with horse de-wormer is a bed not available to someone else who needs it. I don’t think that this one statement from this one person in charge of one hospital in any way contradicts what Dr. McElyea said, and I also find it to be an unlikely claim that they haven’t had a _single_ case of people OD’ing on Ivermectin. Unless of course, their hospital is so full of COVID cases that they aren’t admitting any new patients, and so are turning away OD cases. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/111 "2021-09-05T18:53:47Z")
No, I wasn’t in any way implying that a cashier wouldn’t know what was happening elsewhere in the store. I was talking about the employer’s statement. My example was intended to suggest that employers often will state that someone is no longer affiliated with their entity so people don’t get pissed off at the entity. They also clarify, “We, an entity formerly associated with Mr. X, in fact do not [sell horse meat/run a sex trafficking ring under the pizzaria/etc.].” ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/112 "2021-09-05T20:01:53Z")
In other news, there is speculation about an upcoming shortage of sugar lumps ([courtesy of Thomas Wykes](https://www.thomaswykes.com/)). [https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/602d7eabf31b0e49a2be8a24/e79e5342-9433-497d-b712-8f9cccc564d1/horse+drugs.png](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/602d7eabf31b0e49a2be8a24/e79e5342-9433-497d-b712-8f9cccc564d1/horse+drugs.png) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/113 "2021-09-05T22:56:08Z")
The KXMX story is reporting that in the KFOR interview, the Dr. said he was associated with the Sallisaw hospital, which he is. But if he hasn’t worked there in two months, how does he know there’s a backup in the ER? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/114 "2021-09-05T23:21:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Both doesn’t actually refute the claim in anyway, and also makes me wonder if McDonalds serves horse meat. I wash my horsemeat down with horse medicine. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/115 "2021-09-05T23:24:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The KXMX story is reporting that in the KFOR interview, the Dr. said he was associated with the Sallisaw hospital, which he is. But if he hasn’t worked there in two months, how does he know there’s a backup in the ER? Did you read the original KFOR interview? Here it is again: > **[Patients overdosing on ivermectin backing up rural Oklahoma hospitals,...](https://kfor.com/news/local/patients-overdosing-on-ivermectin-backing-up-rural-oklahoma-hospitals-ambulances/)** > > A rural Oklahoma doctor said patients who are taking the horse de-wormer medication, ivermectin, to fight COVID-19 are causing emergency room and ambulance back ups. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/116 "2021-09-06T14:16:21Z")
Can you please cite where he mentioned this specific hospital’s ER being backed up? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/117 "2021-09-06T15:42:00Z")
Is there _any_ independent verification of this doctor’s claims? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/118 "2021-09-07T13:18:49Z")
This is wonderfully bizarre, if true: > [@](#): > > [Horse Paste causes sterility!](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/6/2050743/-Oh-this-is-funny-Horse-Paste-causes-sterility) > > > … > > > > According to this article, Ivermectin affects the following: > > > > - Morphology (weird shapes) > > - Motility (can’t swim) > > - Sperm count > > > > > There was a significant drop in the sperm counts of the patients after their treatment with ivermectin. For example in a particular patient the sperm count dropped from 125 million cells per ml of sperm before therapy with ivermectin to 105 million per ml after the treatment > > > > > > 6\*[Normal Control Range = 60 – 120 x 10 per ml, see table 1]. There was also a significant reduction in the motility of the cells after the treatment with ivermectin. These reductions were not concurrent, nor where they in proportion to one another. As for the morphology, there was a significant increase in the number of abnormal cells after the treatment with ivermectin \*[Normal control Range of normal motility = above 50%, see table 1]. > > > > Not just counts, but motility, too: > > > > > Also sperm motility was found to reduce drastically (see table 3) when pre ivermectin and post ivermectin motility tests are compared. Sperm with abnormal morphology were also found to have increased after ivermectin therapy as shown in table 4 Archives of Applied Science Research (2011): Effects of Ivermectin therapy on the sperm functions of Nigerian onchcerciasis† patients †onchocerciasis == river blindness Rationale for them to perform this study: … a recent report showed that 85% of… Here’s the actual paper: [scholarsresearchlibrary.com](https://www.scholarsresearchlibrary.com/articles/effects-of-ivermectin-therapy-on-the-sperm-functions-of-nigerian-onchocerciasis-patients.pdf) ### [effects-of-ivermectin-therapy-on-the-sperm-functions-of-nigerian-onchocerciasis-patients.pdf](https://www.scholarsresearchlibrary.com/articles/effects-of-ivermectin-therapy-on-the-sperm-functions-of-nigerian-onchocerciasis-patients.pdf) Idonije, O. B., E. Asika, O. Okhiai, and I. Nweke. “Effects of Ivermectin Therapy on the sperm function of Nigerian onchocerciasis patients.” _Arch Appl Sci Res_ 3 (2011): 533-543. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/119 "2021-09-07T18:05:21Z")
The narrative about hospitals in part of Oklahoma being overrun with ivermectin overdose patients and having to turn away trauma victims, continues to break down. A second hospital (Integris) which employed the physician making the claims says that its facilities, including the hospital at which Dr. McElyea worked, have seen a “handful” of such patients. And the doctor himself is backtracking, now saying that he was “just a little misquoted”. > **[Oklahoma Doctor At Center Of Viral Ivermectin Story Says Report Is Wrong](https://www.newson6.com/story/6136ad349daa7c0c0b36d064/oklahoma-doctor-at-center-of-viral-ivermectin-story-says-report-is-wrong)** > > The doctor at the center of the story told News 9 he was misquoted, and the story was wrong.  The original report in _Rolling Stone_ that went viral sounded way overblown from the get-go. The reason it was picked up by various outlets including the _Guardian_ and MSNBC so readily and uncritically, without careful confirmation, is that it conveniently fit a narrative about foolish people out in the sticks who ignore proven medicine and endanger themselves and others. There’s already ample justification for criticizing Covid science deniers. Jumping on the dubious Oklahoma story just provides fuel for the “fake news” shouters and denialists. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831/120 "2021-09-07T19:20:11Z")
Sales and usage of horse medicine to treat Covid continues on. There are a lot of articles about this such as: > **[Ivermectin poison control calls triple in Washington, despite multiple...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/ivermectin-poison-control-calls-triple-in-washington-despite-multiple-warnings-against-use-for-covid-19-treatment/)** > > Demand for ivermectin has increased nationwide, despite warnings from multiple health agencies about the dangers of consuming it for COVID-19 treatment and prevention. The Washington Poison Center has reported a threefold increase in calls regarding... Note to self: Make sure to avoid Dr. Michael “Quack” Turner of Kennewick, WA. Kennewick is one of the three cities that makes up the “Tri-Cities” and is being ravaged by overwhelming Covid cases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivermectin-isnt-horse-medicine/949831.md?page=7)