# Ivory Tower Denizen, Is There a Reason for a Warning Rather than an Explanation? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 23, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033 "2017-09-23T12:01:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/61 "2017-09-25T00:41:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I said it was subjective. And the subjective judgement is handled very differently depending on the author of the post and the target of equally satirical posts. This is your claim. Back it up, please. Keep in mind the gold standard: an equally snarky threadshit of a one-liner made with a different target, that you know was reported, in the same forum, that didn’t receive action. Failing that gold standard, there are plenty of other possible reasons for whatever variance you’ve seen. (It’s worth noting that this is, how do I put this diplomatically, not exactly the first time Shodan has made a snarky one-liner that fails to adequately represent the views of his political opponents, but I don’t know he’s been modded for it before.) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/62 "2017-09-25T01:00:56Z")
Did I miss the post where Shodan says it was not, in fact, his intent to troll? Sort of odd to complain without disavowing that intent. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/63 "2017-09-25T01:07:52Z")
I should probably add: whether that was his intent or not, I am in the camp that says this kind of moderating is inherently biased and therefore should use a very light touch. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/64 "2017-09-25T01:25:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is your claim. Back it up, please. > > Keep in mind the gold standard: an equally snarky threadshit of a one-liner made with a different target, that you know was reported, in the same forum, that didn’t receive action. > > Failing that gold standard, there are plenty of other possible reasons for whatever variance you’ve seen. > > (It’s worth noting that this is, how do I put this diplomatically, not exactly the first time Shodan has made a snarky one-liner that fails to adequately represent the views of his political opponents, but I don’t know he’s been modded for it before.) How about you read the board and use the power of inference? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/65 "2017-09-25T01:42:26Z")
[This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=837033) is a target rich environment for moderation under this policy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/66 "2017-09-25T01:44:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How about you read the board and use the power of inference? I did, and came to the conclusion that your complaint is meritless. If you’d like to persuade anyone who’s not already persuaded, evidence is often a good first step. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/67 "2017-09-25T01:44:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Did I miss the post where Shodan says it was not, in fact, his intent to troll? > > Sort of odd to complain without disavowing that intent. As a lawyer, would you rather have your client make statements about a charge or stay silent? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/68 "2017-09-25T01:49:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=837033) is a target rich environment for moderation under this policy. Now that is funny. OMG. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/69 "2017-09-25T02:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Bricker** : > > I think inferences that draw disciplinary actions from moderators, and inferences that merely prompt questions or comments from readers, are two very different propositions, and I think you should already know that. I infer that you did, in fact. Yes, I do know that, but I fail to see the relevance. I thought it was quite clear, given the context, that we were talking about the sort of subjective inference which leads to disciplinary action from moderators. And I’m still curious as to how a message board could be run without such inference. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/70 "2017-09-25T02:49:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I did, and came to the conclusion that your complaint is meritless. You honestly believe what you are saying and that’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/71 "2017-09-25T02:58:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You honestly believe what you are saying and that’s scary. Cool beans. No evidence yet, I see :). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/72 "2017-09-25T03:05:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You honestly believe what you are saying and that’s scary. I can’t speak for LHoD, but I believe what I say. If you find that scary, beware the future. You’re not going to like a world in which everyday hate and bigotry is even more publicly denounced and supporters more fervently reviled than today. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/73 "2017-09-25T03:18:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I can’t speak for LHoD, but I believe what I say. If you find that scary, beware the future. You’re not going to like a world in which everyday hate and bigotry is even more publicly denounced and supporters more fervently reviled than today. And just wait until what you believe is on the wrong side of that equation. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/74 "2017-09-25T04:11:15Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I can’t speak for LHoD, but I believe what I say. If you find that scary, beware the future. You’re not going to like a world in which everyday hate and bigotry is even more publicly denounced and supporters more fervently reviled than today. The thread is short and context is clear with regards to my response to LHoD. That’s in stark contrast to your two posts that don’t seem to have anything to do with the topic of this thread and are insulting other posters and attacking strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/75 "2017-09-25T04:17:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Cool beans. No evidence yet, I see :). The standard of “evidence” you demand is nonsensical. I don’t have to agree to the rules nor play the game you propose. Anyone can make a list of demands and claim that only the fulfillment of that specific list is proof of whatever. On the other hand, anyone can ignore the demands and advance his or her argument as he or she sees fit. Neither octopus’s or Left Hand of Dorkness’s opinion of the strength of the argument actually matters though. How about you prove the moderators act consistently with regards to one sentence posts that someone somewhere may take offense to? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/76 "2017-09-25T04:29:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I can’t speak for LHoD, but I believe what I say. If you find that scary, beware the future. You’re not going to like a world in which everyday hate and bigotry is even more publicly denounced and supporters more fervently reviled than today. What was bigoted about the post in question? And we’re still waiting for you to point out the slur that you claimed **Shodan** used. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/77 "2017-09-25T06:05:36Z")
I haven’t read prior **Shodan** posts on the topic, but, viewing this one post in isolation, _join me with those who think the Warning was not deserved._ It should not be controversial to say that self-identification (self-discovery) is an important part of the answer to the OP of the thread that drew a warning. That’s true whether that self-discovery is voluntary or involuntary. Thus Shodan may have been _neither trolling nor sarcastic._ I agree with these posters: > [@kayT](#): > > I almost never agree with **Shodan** , so apparently today is going to be a weird one. But to me in the context of that thread I think a warning is way too strong. I am not even sure it deserved a comment. If the Dope has to get along without sarcasm that will be a sad day for sure, and I defy anyone to know for sure if that remark was trolling or sarcasm. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Seems like **Shodan** was just posting the position that a lot of people take on the issue. You are what you self-identify as. The OP was certainly nuanced, but it looked to me like he wasn’t seeing the forest for the trees. More nuance isn’t always a good thing. Also, I’m not seeing the inflammatory nature of the post, other than an assumption that he was mocking one political side. But that happens dozens of times a day here. > > But… let’s say **Shodan** was mocking the liberal position. Are we going to start seeing the liberal posters here moderated every time they mock conservative positions? If so, you guys have your work cut out for you. > [@aldiboronti](#): > > How would **Shodan** ’s post rile or piss anyone off? I’m genuinely puzzled. Isn’t he just saying the the No 1 factor is that people themselves decide their own gender identity? Thar’s a slur? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/78 "2017-09-25T10:40:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The standard of “evidence” you demand is nonsensical. Not remotely. You claim bias, but aren’t willing to control for other factors. As I said, what I suggested (“demand” is such a big word to use here) is a gold standard. If you’re unable to offer that, lesser evidence may still have some weaker persuasive value. > [@](#): > > How about you prove the moderators act consistently with regards to one sentence posts that someone somewhere may take offense to? I never said they do. I suspect that different moderators are inconsistent with each other and with themselves from day to day. Personality and mood may well account for these inconsistencies. What I’ve not seen is any evidence, despite years of claims, that the difference is due to politics. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/79 "2017-09-25T12:21:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Did I miss the post where Shodan says it was not, in fact, his intent to troll? No more than I missed the post where you declared that it was not your intent either, in this thread or any other. 😉 and IYSWIM. As far as the usual “conservatives are held to a different standard”, I don’t even think it is necessary to cover in this thread. **ITD** has said it was the specific words that I used in the specific thread that made it trolling, and/or that I didn’t flesh it out enough. Okay, then let’s not bring any other thread into it - in what way is trolling to say that self-identifying gender is a key factor in deciding on gender definition? How many words does it take before expressing what is the consensus view on the SDMB is not trolling, and how does mentioning that it is a key factor dismissive? Or were there other specific words that made it so? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033/80 "2017-09-25T12:26:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No more than I missed the post where you declared that it was not your intent either, in this thread or any other. 😉 and IYSWIM. Given that one of you just got warned for trolling, and the other didn’t, I’m okay not holding y’all to the same standard in terms of looking for a clarification here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivory-tower-denizen-is-there-a-reason-for-a-warning-rather-than-an-explanation/797033.md?page=5)