# IvoryTowerDenizen, this was poor modding **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 3, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156 "2019-01-03T16:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/41 "2019-01-03T19:54:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Actually, since this summer, the board has been dominated by a woman. I just assumed that she preferred the conductor’s baton to the riding crop. But I don’t judge. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/42 "2019-01-03T19:54:42Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > … we’re hearing “this post needs to be looked at as a separate comment and not indicative of a trend.” This is not being said by the moderation staff in any way shape or form. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/43 "2019-01-03T19:57:44Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is not being said by the moderation staff in any way shape or form. Post #10. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/44 "2019-01-03T19:58:59Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Post #10. Quote the part you think supports your assertion and I’ll correct your mistake. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/45 "2019-01-03T19:59:04Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Post #10. Doesn’t say what you seem to think it says. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/46 "2019-01-03T20:01:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was asking a legit question, but in a clunky way. So, next time someone talks about an upset / disturbed black person, I can ask if someone stole his watermelon or fried chicken, because, giving me the benefit of the doubt, I could just think that they are “hangry.” Noted. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/47 "2019-01-03T20:01:16Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is not being said by the moderation staff in any way shape or form. Might as well be. > [@RE: preemptively closing threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-preemptively-closing-threads/819189/13): > > Sometimes TPTB need to be shown a definite pattern before taking action. Here we have another misogynist and TPTB are dragging their heels again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/48 "2019-01-03T20:09:46Z")
> [@andros](#): > > There is no relation between menstruation and the existence or diagnosis of BPD. > > Some studies have shown a relationship between the _severity and presentation of some symptoms of BPD_ and the menstrual cycle. > > The individual in question is not ill because of menstruation. **Urbanredneck** did not assert that the individual in question was ill because of menstruation. He asked if the symptoms varied throughout her cycle. And, as you mention, there are some studies that seem to establish that this could be the case. **ITD** appears to have ruled that no, it cannot be the case, no matter what the studies show, and it is misogyny to ask the question. Ignorance fought, I guess. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/49 "2019-01-03T20:13:07Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Quote the part you think supports your assertion and I’ll correct your mistake. Yeah… I’m not 100% sold on the decision but this is pulled way out of left field. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/50 "2019-01-03T20:17:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Urbanredneck** did not assert that the individual in question was ill because of menstruation. He asked if the symptoms varied throughout her cycle. To what possible end? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/51 "2019-01-03T20:23:46Z")
I think the mods work hard to do their best at all the balancing they have to do, and I also think that some of the criticism of going too easy on misogyny (and other forms of bigotry) is reasonable. I think the mods care about misogyny, but nonetheless I think there is the possibility of improvement. I think posts 10, 35, 40, and 42 were all helpful and reasonably-toned responses from moderators. I think posts 27 and 30 were knee-jerk and overly defensive (especially 30, which struck me as a personal attack on the OP, when IMO the OP’s criticism is reasonable even if it’s a grey area that can be reasonably disputed whether this warranted a note or warning). So thanks to the mods for your hard work, and hopefully you can take reasonable criticism onboard and try to improve; not because you’re deficient, but because there’s usually room for improvement, especially on important issues like this. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/52 "2019-01-03T20:28:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Urbanredneck** did not assert… I think this is a complete red herring at this point, including any question on whether ITD was correct in _that_ aspect of her moderation. Let’s stipulate that there may be a substantive issue that could in principle be raised and discussed in an appropriate manner. It seems to me what’s at stake is whether this _particular_ poster was remotely sincere in raising the issue, or whether his prior pattern of behavior is sufficient evidence that this post _coming from him_ was misogynistic trolling rather than just tactlessness. I don’t think there’s any real absolute question of principle at stake, it’s hyperbole to suggest that the mods don’t take patterns of behavior into account _at all_. And it’s certainly difficult to be fair and impartial (and, equally important, to be _transparently_ fair and impartial) in judging a pattern of behavior when no one post crosses a bright line - because you can’t just point to any one specific comment as egregiously out of line. But it does seem like there’s a pretty obvious pattern here, and that maybe mods are trying _too_ hard to give the benefit of the doubt on the trollish-tactless spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/53 "2019-01-03T20:30:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Urbanredneck** did not assert that the individual in question was ill because of menstruation. He asked if the symptoms varied throughout her cycle. I agree. (My only interests are preemption and clarity around an issue that is personally and professionally important to me, and are in no way meant to suggest that **UR** \*claimed \*anything at all.) (eta: I do, however, also agree with **Riemann** above that it was at very least a tactless and thoughtless question for that particular thread and very possibly part and parcel of a habit of sex- and gender-related jerkery.) . ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/54 "2019-01-03T20:30:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think this is a complete red herring at this point, including any question on whether ITD was correct in _that_ aspect of her moderation. Let’s stipulate that there may be a substantive issue that could in principle be raised and discussed in an appropriate manner. > > It seems to me what’s at stake is whether this _particular_ poster was remotely sincere in raising the issue, or whether his prior pattern of behavior is sufficient evidence that this post _coming from him_ was misogynistic trolling rather than just tactlessness. > > I don’t think there’s any real absolute question of principle at stake, it’s hyperbole to suggest that the mods don’t take patterns of behavior into account _at all_. And it’s certainly difficult to be fair and impartial (and, equally important, to be _transparently_ fair and impartial) in judging a pattern of behavior when no one post crosses a bright line. But it does seem like there’s an _obvious_ pattern of behavior here, and that mods are trying _too_ hard to give the benefit of the doubt on the trollish-tactless spectrum. Thank you for effectively communicating what I was trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/55 "2019-01-03T20:31:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You certainly haven’t. And as I’ve said before, anyone who posts that the mods are “circling the wagons” when they express their views loses all credibility as an unbiased critic. I have been paying attention to mods who become condescending and petulant foot-stompers when their actions are questioned. Reminds me of a certain president, actually. So kudos on coming across so presidential. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/56 "2019-01-03T20:41:30Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Warnings are not the only moderation tool we have. Mod notes are valid forms of moderation. I don’t feel the need to live up to an arbitrary standard about what counts as enough moderation to satisfy your expectation. > > I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was asking a legit question, but in a clunky way. That has always been my style (erring on mod notes rather than warnings) and I’m ok with it. It was also consistent with my moderation in that thread. Taken as it is, I would agree. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/57 "2019-01-03T20:55:36Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Oh bull fucking shit you’re going to make that assumption. First, there is no indication that past behavior isn’t taken into consideration. Second, it’s clear that many people have a problem with UR, and wait with bated breath for his posts so they can report them - might as well change his avatar to a giant scarlet A. Third, if folks want to increase the weight we place on past behavior when moderating, I’m not sure the mass bannings will be well received, but I do have a list. Trash talk and threats of retribution from posters are usually frowned upon in ATMB. I am sorry to hear that you keep such a list-am I on it? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/58 "2019-01-03T20:59:33Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I have been paying attention to mods who become condescending and petulant foot-stompers when their actions are questioned. Reminds me of a certain president, actually. So kudos on coming across so presidential. …this is one of the most pathetically absurd comparisons I’ve read on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/59 "2019-01-03T21:04:28Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I don’t feel the need to live up to an arbitrary standard about what counts as enough moderation to satisfy your expectation. …except it’s the expectation\* you guys set\*, when you said you were going to get serious about moderating misogyny. That’s not “arbitrary”, that’s “living up to your own promises” > [@](#): > > I gave him the benefit of the doubt Why on Earth would you do that? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/60 "2019-01-03T21:08:57Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Sexism just does not draw the same kind of mod response as racism does. No, it draws about the same weak response. The moderation on racism here is no better than that on misogyny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156.md?page=4)