# IvoryTowerDenizen, this was poor modding **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 3, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156 "2019-01-03T16:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/61 "2019-01-03T21:10:29Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > it’s clear that many people have a problem with UR …but that’s \*all \*on **them** , right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/62 "2019-01-03T21:11:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …this is one of the most pathetically absurd comparisons I’ve read on the boards. When the people in charge feel the need to pipe with condescension and snark to every post that they see as questioning their actions, it makes them come across as weak and petulant. This shit makes them look weak and petulant: > [@Bone](#): > > Oh bull fucking shit you’re going to make that assumption. First, there is no indication that past behavior isn’t taken into consideration. Second, it’s clear that many people have a problem with UR, and wait with bated breath for his posts so they can report them - might as well change his avatar to a giant scarlet A. Third, if folks want to increase the weight we place on past behavior when moderating, I’m not sure the mass bannings will be well received, but I do have a list. > Ok, person with nine warnings. > Just because the board doesn’t reflect your personal view of \*How Things Must Be \*doesn’t translate into a blind spot, nor does it indicate a lack of caring. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Gotta agree with Bone. ITD made her call and she stands by it. Dibble’s thread here is another attempt to game the refs to deal with people he disfavors. > > Tough. We’re the staff and we discuss and handle things as we see fit. > [@Colibri](#): > > I agree that these posts could only have been made by people who have not been paying any attention at all. > [@Colibri](#): > > You certainly haven’t. And as I’ve said before, anyone who posts that the mods are “circling the wagons” when they express their views loses all credibility as an unbiased critic. > [@Bone](#): > > Quote the part you think supports your assertion and I’ll correct your mistake. ITD’s response to the OP was calm and measured. She defended herself and moved on. I may not agree, and would’ve liked more of a discussion around it, but the other mods had to…do that nonsense. So fuck it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/63 "2019-01-03T21:15:22Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Dibble’s thread here is another attempt to game the refs to deal with people he disfavors. Calling out the disjunct between the PR vs the actuality of moderation of misogyny is “gaming the refs” now? I already knew what the mod staff thinks of me , but it’s nice to see one of you have the balls to say it to my face, at least. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/64 "2019-01-03T21:16:44Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think the fact that the mods are getting so defensive is telling. Isn’t it, just :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/65 "2019-01-03T21:18:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Trash talk and threats of retribution from posters are usually frowned upon in ATMB. I am sorry to hear that you keep such a list-am I on it? Aren’t threads of retribution from posters frowned upon anywhere? Mods should not be threatened with retribution in any forum. And given the behavior of previous mods – random warnings, thread closings on whims after grabbing the last word, threats of banning for mere disagreements or having hissy-fits because the mods OP is so insanely narrow and specific that ANYTHING beyond a yes/no answer wasn’t 100% on topic, I fail to see how keeping a list of poster’s previous warnings/notes/behavior is even remotely a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/66 "2019-01-03T21:22:08Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > When the people in charge feel the need to pipe with condescension and snark to every post that they see as questioning their actions, it makes them come across as weak and petulant. This shit makes them look weak and petulant: …we are talking about a single thread on a messageboard. You’ve compared the unpaid moderators here to one of the most (IMHO) disgusting, disgraceful, most dangerous people on the planet. There is no basis for comparison. > [@](#): > > ITD’s response to the OP was calm and measured. She defended herself and moved on. I may not agree, and would’ve liked more of a discussion around it, but the other mods had to…do that nonsense. So fuck it. Nope. Not even close. It was an absurd comparison before and in context it is still an absurd comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/67 "2019-01-03T21:22:31Z")
I’ll just say that I’m shocked UR stuck around after bragging about sexual harassment and telling everyone who pointed oit that he had just bragged about sexual harassment that they were nuts and leave it at that. Compared to that, this is peanuts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/68 "2019-01-03T21:24:22Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Aren’t threads of retribution from posters frowned upon anywhere? Mods should not be threatened with retribution in any forum. > > And given the behavior of previous mods – random warnings, thread closings on whims after grabbing the last word, threats of banning for mere disagreements or having hissy-fits because the mods OP is so insanely narrow and specific that ANYTHING beyond a yes/no answer wasn’t 100% on topic, I fail to see how keeping a list of poster’s previous warnings/notes/behavior is even remotely a problem. I am so happy I provided you with an excuse to participate in this thread, but since I am not the topic I will leave you be. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/69 "2019-01-03T21:34:05Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …we are talking about a single thread on a messageboard. You’ve compared the unpaid moderators here to one of the most (IMHO) disgusting, disgraceful, most dangerous people on the planet. There is no basis for comparison. > > Nope. Not even close. It was an absurd comparison before and in context it is still an absurd comparison. Yeah, you do realize I’m not calling them racists or anti immigration or sexual predators or unintelligent buffoons or disgusting/disgraceful/dangerous, right? I’m saying their approach to anyone questioning their decisions is to strike back like defensive, petulant weaklings. Sometimes when you’re in charge, measured responses earn you more respect than ones that try to score points. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/70 "2019-01-03T21:37:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am so happy I provided you with an excuse to participate in this thread, but since I am not the topic I will leave you be. :dubious: Perhaps you saw yourself in some of my descriptions. I certainly didn’t mention you. Have fun with that. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/71 "2019-01-03T21:42:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’ll just say that I’m shocked UR stuck around after bragging about sexual harassment and telling everyone who pointed oit that he had just bragged about sexual harassment that they were nuts and leave it at that. Compared to that, this is peanuts. There are lots of posters who’ve stuck around after bragging about horrific stuff. We’ve seen everything from guys who’ve raped their friend’s girlfriends by pretending to be the friend\*, to people who’ve bragged how much they resent handicapped spots if the handicapped person has a nice car because “fuck the handicapped who use sports cars”, to people who were 18 or 19 who’ve bragged about raping mentally handicapped, underaged, gender-confused 14 (or less) year-old children to people bragging about threatening their daughter’s girlfriends with baseball bats (this one might have been a hypothetical). So I don’t see why you’re surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/72 "2019-01-03T21:55:59Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Yeah, you do realize I’m not calling them racists or anti immigration or sexual predators or unintelligent buffoons or disgusting/disgraceful/dangerous, right? …I know exactly what you said. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I have been paying attention to mods who become condescending and petulant foot-stompers when their actions are questioned. Reminds me of a certain president, actually. So kudos on coming across so presidential. Its an absurd comparison. Its ridiculous, its unhelpful, and it overblown. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/73 "2019-01-03T22:21:24Z")
How can you be so sure? We’ve had 44 presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/74 "2019-01-03T22:25:21Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think the fact that the mods are getting so defensive is telling. There has always been a problem with misogyny on this board. People started pushing back and there was a big blow up around SA’s banning, but it is slipping back to business as usual (does that demonstrate my having paid enough attention to have an opinion about this board I’ve been a member of for 17 years?). …there has always been a problem with misogyny on the boards. There has been a problem with racism. There has been plenty of problems. But I don’t think that anything is slipping. And I certainly don’t think IvoryTowerDenizen has slipped. Moderating has always been a margin call. The first decision to be made here was “should this have been moderated?” A few years ago that post may well not have been moderated. But things have changed, and the post was (quite rightly) moderated. So the second decision to be made was “what is the appropriate punishment” for this? And I personally don’t think a mod-note is that out-of-line. But if there had been a warning I would have been good with that as well. Its a judgement call. Its a huge leap to go from this “judgement call” to “all the talk about better moderation around misogyny was just that - talk.” There has been a huge change in culture of these boards in the last couple of years. It obviously isn’t perfect. But with all due respect to MrDribble: this individual mod decision isn’t representative of anything really. I think its silly to look at this single mod call and use it as a bludgeon to call the mods out on how they are handling an individual poster. Not warning Urbanredneck does not mean “things are going back to where they were.” It means that the mods made a call that some people disagree with. I think its reasonable to disagree with the call, I even think its reasonable to start a thread disagreeing with that call. The OP here could have made a case that Urbanredneck has a pattern of misogynistic posts, that he shouldn’t be given the benefit of the doubt, and that a warning was more appropriate than a mod note. But that wasn’t what happened. None of that is in the OP And if the mods are “defensive” I don’t think that its because “things are slipping.” Its because (IMHO) they perceive that IvoryTowerDenizen, one of the moderators who has probably done more than anyone to make these boards safer and more welcoming to women over the last couple of years, is being unfairly attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/75 "2019-01-03T22:35:03Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Oh bull fucking shit you’re going to make that assumption. First, there is no indication that past behavior isn’t taken into consideration. \*\*Second, it’s clear that many people have a problem with UR, and wait with bated breath for his posts so they can report them \*\*- might as well change his avatar to a giant scarlet A. Third, if folks want to increase the weight we place on past behavior when moderating, I’m not sure the mass bannings will be well received, but I do have a list. Bolding mine. So you consider this a frivolous offense? I resent that because I reported it. I didn’t sit around “with bated breath”. I was reading that thread with so much concern for a wonderful young woman with a difficult problem. Then his crap gets dumped into it. I pass by any thread he starts, but this was impossible to avoid. People report urbanredneck because he consistently violates the Don’t Be A Jerk rule. Yet for some reason, he’s tolerated. You mods have been so good at listening to our misogyny complaints, yet you make excuses for this poster who’s one of the most insidious. I don’t get it. I’m extremely disappointed right now, especially in you, **Bone** , whom I admired for listening and trying when you don’t quite understand the problem, and for fair, even-tempered moderating. You told us to report when we see misogyny. I did, and now you’re blowing me off like I’m _nothing_. So much for that air of intolerance towards women we’ve all been trying to rectify. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/76 "2019-01-03T22:43:05Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > When the people in charge feel the need to pipe with condescension and snark to every post that they see as questioning their actions, it makes them come across as weak and petulant. Let’s be clear. The criticism that somehow ITD isn’t serious about fighting misogyny is unfounded. She stated her reasoning in post #10. Then you, in post #11, made the baseless implication that an individual’s posting history doesn’t factor in. You are either assuming ITD is unaware of UR, or you are leading in a way that demands rebuke. You continued in post #14 with increasing hyperbole pivoting off of the idea that we’ve somehow discarded the notion of context and history. This continued with others weighing in with post #16 and #17, both continuing the wrong implication that post history doesn’t matter. These responses weren’t made because moderation actions were questioned. Questioning moderator action happens all the time. These criticisms however, are of a different flavor than questioning a particular decision. They are made to call into question the entire moderation staff, the board in general, and to discard past action that the staff has taken with regard to policing misogyny. An overblown accusation such as this will get a strong rebuke. > [@Calatin](#): > > So, next time someone talks about an upset / disturbed black person, I can ask if someone stole his watermelon or fried chicken, because, giving me the benefit of the doubt, I could just think that they are “hangry.” > > Noted. [The _So I’m Wrong_ rule strikes again.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20216584&postcount=37) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/77 "2019-01-03T23:09:36Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > Bolding mine. So you consider this a frivolous offense? I resent that because I reported it. I didn’t sit around “with bated breath”. I was reading that thread with so much concern for a wonderful young woman with a difficult problem. Then his crap gets dumped into it. I pass by any thread he starts, but this was impossible to avoid. > > People report urbanredneck because he consistently violates the Don’t Be A Jerk rule. Yet for some reason, he’s tolerated. You mods have been so good at listening to our misogyny complaints, yet you make excuses for this poster who’s one of the most insidious. I don’t get it. I’m extremely disappointed right now, especially in you, Bone, whom I admired for listening and trying when you don’t quite understand the problem, and for fair, even-tempered moderating. You told us to report when we see misogyny. I did, and now you’re blowing me off like I’m nothing. So much for that air of intolerance towards women we’ve all been trying to rectify. No, I’m not commenting on the magnitude of the offense. I’m certainly not blowing off post reports. This is not my forum to moderate so I don’t get these post reports. I’m also not making any excuses for UR. ITD made a call and it is hers to make. I respect her judgment and support her in that exercise. My issue is the seeming out of proportion reaction to this judgment call. As if this one note instead of a warning means that _all the talk about better moderation around misogyny was just that - talk_, and _that an individual’s posting history doesn’t factor in_, and _that mods are going to take every single post at face-value with no consideration of a poster’s posting history_, and _assuming this practice_ [of taking into account someone’s history on the board] _will now be discontinued, since the totality of a poster’s statements no longer matter_, and _that this board is dominated by older men and older men just don’t ‘get’ sexism_. ITD has put in a great amount of effort in this area and I won’t see those contributions be shit on without commenting on it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/78 "2019-01-03T23:17:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am sorry to hear that you keep such a list … It’s a figure of speech, not a real list. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/79 "2019-01-04T00:11:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No, I’m not commenting on the magnitude of the offense. I’m certainly not blowing off post reports. This is not my forum to moderate so I don’t get these post reports. I’m also not making any excuses for UR. ITD made a call and it is hers to make. I respect her judgment and support her in that exercise. > > My issue is the seeming out of proportion reaction to this judgment call. As if this one note instead of a warning means that _all the talk about better moderation around misogyny was just that - talk_, and _that an individual’s posting history doesn’t factor in_, and _that mods are going to take every single post at face-value with no consideration of a poster’s posting history_, and _assuming this practice_ [of taking into account someone’s history on the board] _will now be discontinued, since the totality of a poster’s statements no longer matter_, and _that this board is dominated by older men and older men just don’t ‘get’ sexism_. > > ITD has put in a great amount of effort in this area and I won’t see those contributions be shit on without commenting on it. Ok. Maybe I over-reacted, but that bit about reporting really upset me. We’re at about the same place, then. I think _very, very_ highly of **ITD** and I know how much she’s done for the board. I still don’t really understand her on this poster, but I know she has good reason for what she does and I give her the benefit of the doubt. I certainly didn’t intend to sound like I was shitting on her efforts! I appreciate her and what she does more than I can articulate. I still think UR needs to be gone, however. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/80 "2019-01-04T00:22:49Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I still think UR needs to be gone, however. I don’t think that’s up to you, now is it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156.md?page=5)