# IvoryTowerDenizen, this was poor modding **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 3, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156 "2019-01-03T16:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/101 "2019-01-04T06:51:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You do realize ITD is a woman, right? Yes, it’s been brought up before. And…? > [@](#): > > And she was a rather an important part of the shift in attitude in the moderation recently? …and hence \*every \*call she makes around it is just _perfect_ and not to be questioned? Yeah, no, fuck that reasoning. > [@](#): > > She might not need your help recognizing misogyny and how to deal with it. I think there’s a whole posting history to Redneck (including warnings _she gave) that show she does, in fact, need some help being consistent_ in dealing with it. I’m saying a mod note is fine and in keeping with a heightened commitment to combat misogyny if, say, \*\*andy4eyes \*\*inadvertently says something gauche. But a repeat offender like **Redneck**? _Opening his post with a "Hur-dur, wimmens_" crack? Naah, man, a mod note doesn’t cut it if the mods care at all about being true to their stated intentions. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/102 "2019-01-04T06:55:31Z")
I did want to add one thing (which might have fed into the rather personal animus I’ve received from mods in this thread) - I was not one of the reporters of the post in question - I came straight into making this thread because the moderation had already happened by the time I read the thread. If I’d seen it before it was modded, I would have reported that post for sure. And if it was just noted, I’d have started this same damn thread. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/103 "2019-01-04T07:01:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Naah, man, a mod note doesn’t cut it if the mods care at all about being true to their stated intentions. …it is perfectly possible for the mods to both “care about being true to their stated intentions” and to make a moderating decision that they consider to be a fair one that you happen to disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/104 "2019-01-04T07:27:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …it is perfectly possible for the mods to both “care about being true to their stated intentions” and to make a moderating decision that they consider to be a fair one that you happen to disagree with. Yes, it is possible for the mods to be wrong, that is correct. Hence this thread, arguing that the decision was \*not \*“a fair one” despite their collective belief it was. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/105 "2019-01-04T07:51:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes, it is possible for the mods to be wrong, that is correct. …there really is no “right or wrong” when it comes to making a decision based on subjective criteria. IvoryTowerDenizen made a call that you disagree with. I think she made a fair call. You disagree. I’m not “wrong” because you have a different opinion. I’m not defending Urbanredneck. I’m not defending misogyny. I’m simply disagreeing with you. > [@](#): > > Hence this thread, arguing that the decision was \*not \*“a fair one” despite their collective belief it was. This was the entirety of your argument in the OP: > [@MrDibble](#): > > If the only response to this: > > Is going to be this: > > _ **without a warning issued** _, then it’s clear all the talk about better moderation around misogyny was just that - talk. Your argument was effectively that if a warning isn’t issued then then the moderators don’t really care about misogyny. That is a poor argument. Its an emotional argument. It doesn’t fit the evidence. It throws all the very hard work that has gone into trying to make this place better out the window because you disagree with the mods over a line-call decision. I think in subsequent posts (and in posts made by other posters) people make reasonable arguments about why the decision should be overturned. But its ridiculous to assert that if the moderators choose not to change their minds that “they don’t care about misogyny.” And its even more ridiculous to attribute that assertion to the moderator in question. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/106 "2019-01-04T11:33:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Second, it’s clear that many people have a problem with UR, and wait with bated breath for his posts so they can report them - might as well change his avatar to a giant scarlet A. Maybe I missed it, but did UR out his marital infidelity at some point?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/107 "2019-01-04T12:55:50Z")
I think the scarlet A is metaphorical. Think of **Bone** saying “might as well change his avatar to a giant bullseye,” and it should help visualize what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/108 "2019-01-04T14:00:32Z")
When the ‘just asking’, crew demanded definitive rules for modding misogyny, it sort of ended with, well maybe just watch and learn from how it’s modded if you cannot figure it out otherwise, the nuances evade your perception etc. It seems to me, we can all agree it’s gonna be no treat to mod for misogyny on board filled with nit pickers, such as this is. I think we can also all agree they have to be able to start somewhere. I acknowledge the impatience of those who have waited too long for something to be done, you’re right, it’s taken too long. But that doesn’t change that here we are, change IS being attempted, no matter how slow or ham handed, or unsatisfying you may deem it’s initial baby steps to be. I think we have to give the mods room to evolve and get up to speed. Take some small tentative steps in the right direction, get a feel for the true nature of the problem. Exercise those muscles, get their feet under them, etc. I’m willing to give them a little room to learn, even as I admit it’s long overdue. It seems to me if you don’t want to see them abandon the attempt as unworkable, then we’ve got to give them some breathing room to find what is workable for them. All that said, DON’T stop reporting what you see, it’s really crucial. Props to everyone who did so here. Don’t stop because every moderation doesn’t measure up. We’re def on the right path. Don’t let impatience with implementation scupper the whole effort, I beg of you! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/109 "2019-01-04T14:03:11Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I think the scarlet A is metaphorical. Think of **Bone** saying “might as well change his avatar to a giant bullseye,” and it should help visualize what he meant. What are we supposed to judge people on, if not their actions? Your own actions are the only thing you can ever control, therefore the only thing you should be judged based on. UR’s actions have consistently painted a very specific picture. It isn’t baseless for us to judge him for this. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/110 "2019-01-04T14:49:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes, it’s been brought up before. And…? > > …and hence \*every \*call she makes around it is just _perfect_ and not to be questioned? Yeah, no, fuck that reasoning.I think there’s a whole posting history to Redneck (including warnings _she gave) that show she does, in fact, need some help being consistent_ in dealing with it. and hence, I trust her judgment over yours is what I meant to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/111 "2019-01-04T16:28:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What are we supposed to judge people on, if not their actions? Your own actions are the only thing you can ever control, therefore the only thing you should be judged based on. UR’s actions have consistently painted a very specific picture. It isn’t baseless for us to judge him for this. I made no claim as to which side, if either, was one that I agreed with. I was just trying to assist with the “scarlet A” comparison **Bone** made, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/112 "2019-01-04T16:32:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > **Snark is not a substitute for an argument.** Yes, I have 9 Warnings. So what? As a point of fact, Desmostylus was [banned at 7 warnings](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318875). The mods and posters were all somewhat shocked that he had gotten that many. The Mods pretty much universally agreed that this was way too many warnings and agreed so strongly they made behind the scenes changes to prevent it from happening again. Apparently, with your **NINE** warnings, it’s possible the system is broken again. That’s “so what”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/113 "2019-01-04T16:43:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes, it is possible for the mods to be wrong, that is correct. Hence this thread, arguing that the decision was \*not \*“a fair one” despite their collective belief it was. Ah, so if the Mods disagree with you, they are 'wrong". Got it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/114 "2019-01-04T16:44:45Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I made no claim as to which side, if either, was one that I agreed with. I was just trying to assist with the “scarlet A” comparison **Bone** made, nothing else. Further research on Nathaniel Hawthorne (1804–1864) assures me that the scarlet letter was indeed an “ **A** ” and indeed represented the sin of adultery. Cite: Bell, Michael Davitt. Hawthorne and the Historical Romance of New England. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1980: 173. ISBN 0-691-06136-X ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/115 "2019-01-04T16:49:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ah, so if the Mods disagree with you, they are 'wrong". Got it. > > :rolleyes: Uh, yeah. We’ve got hundreds, if not thousands, of threads across all fora here arguing basically “I disagree with you, I believe you’re wrong.” For disagreements with moderation, in which posters believe mods are wrong, those threads go here. Not seeing the need for the roll-eyes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/116 "2019-01-04T16:57:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ah, so if the Mods disagree with you, they are 'wrong". Errm, _Yes_? I mean, unless you’re suggesting that I’m advancing a position opposite to the one I \*actually \*think is right, which would be, IMO, a form of trolling. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/117 "2019-01-04T16:59:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > and hence, I trust her judgment over yours is what I meant to convey. Wait, are you saying you trust her judgement over mine on what’s misogynistic _just_ because she’s a woman? Is it cancelled out by any \*one \*other woman saying \*\*Redneck \*\*\*was \*being misogynistic? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/118 "2019-01-04T17:12:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there really is no “right or wrong” when it comes to making a decision based on subjective criteria. That’s bullshit. I think you meant to say “no \*objective \*right or wrong”. Because subjectively, they’re very wrong not to give \*\*Redneck \*\*a warning. > [@](#): > > I’m not “wrong” because you have a different opinion. Yes, you are. > [@](#): > > Your argument was effectively that if a warning isn’t issued then then the moderators don’t really care about misogyny. That is a poor argument. Its an emotional argument. You say this as if the second proves the first, and that’s \*absolute \*crap. An argument being emotional doesn’t necessitate it being poor. Quite the opposite, in social interactions. People are not robots. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t fit the evidence. It very much does. A known serial misogynist isn’t warned for a misogynist post, merely noted - conclusion : the mods aren’t as serious about moderating misogyny as they claim. > [@](#): > > It throws all the very hard work that has gone into trying to make this place better out the window because you disagree with the mods over a line-call decision. I disagree that it’s a “line-call”. I say it’s a blatantly obvious misogynistic trolling post, so far over the line that the line’s in another time zone. And no, it doesn’t throw anything under the bus -\* if the mods were actually serious about moderating misogyny\*. They \*could \*go “My bad, yes, that \*should \*have been a warning, _given **Redneck** ’s clear history of being moderated for misogyny_”. Or not. They could instead go “We don’t like the person who started the complaining thread, he’s a whiner” and “You guys all just have it in for **Redneck** for…reasons” Well, we can plainly see what they chose. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/119 "2019-01-04T17:26:45Z")
Moderation of misogyny [still](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856307) [leaves](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862944) [much](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862824) to be desired, [just as I expected](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21229254#post21229254). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156/120 "2019-01-04T17:29:28Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Uh, yeah. We’ve got hundreds, if not thousands, of threads across all fora here arguing basically “I disagree with you, I believe you’re wrong.” For disagreements with moderation, in which posters believe mods are wrong, those threads go here. Not seeing the need for the roll-eyes. Yes, that’s true. And after the staff comes in and explains themselves, usually the objections go away. But there’s a difference between saying “we disagree on something” vs “you are wrong and I am right”, the tone is greatly different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ivorytowerdenizen-this-was-poor-modding/827156.md?page=7)