# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 141
**Author:** ![Danny\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Danny\_Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danny_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2804 "2020-08-22T21:51:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > LOL. Give me a fucking break. The moderators have made their position clear on transgender posters. They have to debate their right to exist. Nobody is going to get banned here. Reporting them **will do nothing**. They can’t get banned for **thoughts in their heads**. If YWTF can claim to know what is going on in male posters heads (and you stay silent about it) then Boudicca90 can say what she thinks as well. Its pretty telling that you’ve decided to call her out but not anyone else. No-one’s questioning their right to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2805 "2020-08-22T21:52:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Name names, please. Name the posters who have said transwomen as a class are deceptive and dangerous, rather than specific males and specific kinds of males (male perverts). …she never claimed that they have “said these things.” She doesn’t have to be specific about anyone. > [@monstro](#): > > But what I’m hearing from you and others is that it is hateful and bigoted for me to believe that males are dangerous to females. If that is what you are hearing then its pretty obvious, after 2800 posts, that you **clearly aren’t listening.** > [@monstro](#): > > Apparently women who dare express their concern about **granting males unrestricted access i** n their spaces are hysterical, delusional, paranoid horrible people who should be silenced, no matter how much evidence they provide to support their position. We hold the position that transwomen are women. So we aren’t talking about " **granting males unrestricted access**. That distinction is **important**. its critical to the discussion and I can’t believe that after 2800 posts you seem to have completely missed the point. ---
**Author:** ![Danny\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Danny\_Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danny_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2806 "2020-08-22T21:54:34Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We hold the position that transwomen are women. So we aren’t talking about " **granting males unrestricted access**. That distinction is **important**. its critical to the discussion and I can’t believe that after 2800 posts you seem to have completely missed the point. If trans women are women, then if I commit a violent crime and tell the judge I’m a woman, should I be sent to a women’s prison? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2807 "2020-08-22T21:57:14Z")
> [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > No-one’s questioning their right to exist. …yeah…nah. I’m not getting into a rhetorical debate about this. There are people in this thread who post pictures of transwomen and point and laugh and call them men. They deny them their identity. They are telling people that “no, you aren’t a woman, you are a man.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2808 "2020-08-22T21:58:14Z")
> [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > If trans women are women, then if I commit a violent crime and tell the judge I’m a woman, should I be sent to a women’s prison? If not, why not? …holy fucking shit take the time to read what I’ve said on the matter **in this very thread.** I’m not going to repeat it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Danny\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Danny\_Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danny_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2809 "2020-08-22T22:03:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …yeah…nah. I’m not getting into a rhetorical debate about this. There are people in this thread who post pictures of transwomen and point and laugh and call them men. They deny them their identity. They are telling people that “no, you aren’t a woman, you are a man.” I don’t see anyone pointing and laughing. Just people saying that if you’re going to call yourself a woman you should at least shave off your massive beard, lest people question your sincerity. Seems reasonable to me. Some people are trolls, some people are liars, some people are exhibitionists who’ll say and do anything to get attention, and they don’t much care what kind of attention they get. If you’re so uncommitted to your gender identity that you can’t even be bothered to shave your beard then…well, maybe you’re full of shit? If you think having this minor stipulation is the same as denying trans people’s right to exist then you’re right. We shouldn’t be having this conversation. There’s no way it could possibly be productive. ---
**Author:** ![Danny\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Danny\_Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danny_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2810 "2020-08-22T22:04:44Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …holy fucking shit take the time to read what I’ve said on the matter **in this very thread.** I’m not going to repeat it for you This thread’s longer than War and Peace. If you’re so uncommitted that you can’t be bothered to do a little copy/pasting then maybe you’re in the wrong place. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2811 "2020-08-22T22:09:03Z")
> [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > I don’t see anyone pointing and laughing. …of course you don’t. > [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > Just people saying that if you’re going to call yourself a woman you should at least shave off your massive beard, lest people question your sincerity. Rachel McKinnon doesn’t have a massive beard. > [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > Seems reasonable to me. Doesn’t sound reasonable to me at all. > [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > Some people are trolls, some people are liars, some people are exhibitionists who’ll say and do anything to get attention, and they don’t much care what kind of attention they get. If you’re so uncommitted to your gender identity that you can’t even be bothered to shave your beard then…well, maybe you’re full of shit? You act as if we are talking about a single photograph when we are not. > [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > If you think having this minor stipulation is the same as denying trans people’s right to exist then you’re right. We shouldn’t be having this conversation. There’s no way it could possibly be productive. By all means, feel free to stop replying to me. Go ahead. Do what you think is best. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2812 "2020-08-22T22:11:24Z")
> [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > This thread’s longer than War and Peace. If you’re so uncommitted that you can’t be bothered to do a little copy/pasting then maybe you’re in the wrong place. …this discussion is in the forum “In My Humble Opinion.” I’m expressing my humble opinion. I’m not your monkey, and I’m not obligated to dance just because you demand it. I’m in exactly the right place. If you want a debate, then go open a thread in one of the debate forums. ---
**Author:** ![Danny\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Danny\_Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danny_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2813 "2020-08-22T22:20:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > this discussion is in the forum “In My Humble Opinion.” I’m expressing my humble opinion. I’m not your monkey, and I’m not obligated to dance just because you demand it. I’m in exactly the right place. If you want a debate, then go open a thread in one of the debate forums. Okay, well my humble opinion is that if we treat anyone who says they’re a woman as a woman, regardless of how they present or behave, then it’s only a matter of time before violent men start “identifying” as women so they can serve their sentences in safer women’s prisons. Why wouldn’t they? Therefore, in order to safeguard non-trans women, a certain amount of “gatekeeping” is essential. This necessarily involves telling a certain amount of men who _say_ they’re women that they’re not, in fact, women. Note this doesn’t exclude _all_ trans-women. For instance, I doubt many would take issue with a post-op transsexual from being sent to a women’s prison. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2814 "2020-08-22T22:21:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > holy fucking shit take the time to read what I’ve said on the matter **in this very thread.** I’m not going to repeat it for you He’d only support your right to go to a women’s prison if you first swore in front of a magistrate that you intend to live the rest of your life as a woman, and signed a form. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2815 "2020-08-22T22:23:18Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > He’d only support your right to go to a women’s prison if you first swore in front of a magistrate that you intend to live the rest of your life as a woman, and signed a form. …this is incorrect. Please stop making stuff up about me. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2816 "2020-08-22T22:25:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > this is incorrect. Please stop making stuff up about me. You donated money to an organisation which campaigns to create this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2817 "2020-08-22T22:25:59Z")
> [@Danny\_Hammer](#): > > This necessarily involves telling a certain amount of men who _say_ they’re women that they’re not, in fact, women. …there are transgender women participating in this thread. How far are you willing to go with this premise? Are you going to tell them that they are not a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2818 "2020-08-22T22:26:36Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You donated money to an organisation which campaigns to create this situation. …they are not campaigning to create this situation. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2819 "2020-08-22T22:27:59Z")
Maybe you should have checked that before donating money to them? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2820 "2020-08-22T22:29:04Z")
…maybe you should stop impugning an organization by making stuff up about them? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2821 "2020-08-22T22:33:19Z")
They are campaigning to create this situation. That’s one reason I object to them. The other is what they are doing to children. ---
**Author:** ![Danny\_Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Danny\_Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danny_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2822 "2020-08-22T22:35:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > there are transgender women participating in this thread. How far are you willing to go with this premise? Are you going to tell them that they are not a woman? Difficult to say for sure, because I’ve only got brief written descriptions to go on. I’d have to make that decision with more information, and on a case by case basis. But just because it may be hard to draw a crystal clear line, that doesn’t mean we have to accept that anyone who says they’re a woman actually is one. I’ve known trans-women who’ve gone through full gender reassignment surgery and have utterly committed to their new lives, but I’ve also known men who changed their names from Mark to Mary and then did _absolutely nothing else_ (including shave). It’s clear that the latter sort of person shouldn’t be sent to a women’s prison. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/2823 "2020-08-22T22:38:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > They are campaigning to create this situation. That’s one reason I object to them. …nope. They are not campaigning on allowing sexual predators access to women’s prisons. That is certainly not a thing that they are doing. > [@DemonTree](#): > > The other is what they are doing to children. You don’t support helping children feel better about themselves? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=140) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=142)