# J K Rowling and the trans furore **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795 "2020-06-16T18:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/21 "2020-06-16T21:34:45Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Feel free to educate us about this then. I skimmed the first third of it and so far it reads like “the internet is very mean to me” and “trans people are icky and will regret it and do baaaad things with their lies”. I got the feeling she was wanting to talk more about her own experience of sexual assault and her need to identify as a female. She was not knocking trans people so much as defending her right to be “person who menstruates” type of female. I get a sense that most people missed the point, including the actors from her many movie adaptations. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/22 "2020-06-16T21:34:49Z")
One thing that makes me reluctant to weigh in on this most recent kerfuffle is I don’t really know if Rowling is reacting to a fringe radical minority or the trans movement in general. Her essay doesn’t make this clear to me. Like, I also do not want “woman” to substituted with “menstruators” or “people with vulvas”. But I don’t know if these terms are being pushed in any serious way. If it’s only fringy folks calling for the use of these terms, then Rowling needs to chillax and not give their position any more gravitas than it deserves. I’m just not deep enough in the discourse to know if she’s overreacting or not. I appreciate that she’s concerned that teenagers are being encouraged to transition before they are certain they are truly trans. That’s not a particular worry of mine, but I can appreciate that concern. Seems to me that such “oopsies” don’t HAVE to be a big deal. We choose to make them a big deal. Maybe that’s what we should address rather than the “oopsies”. I admit to feeling frustrated over how much the discourse seems to be all over the place. It seems like one day we were all learning about how gender is a social construct. I was totally down for this message because it makes sense to me. But today the message seems to be gender is whatever an individual says it is, damn the societal millieu and the biology. And if you don’t agree with this idea, it’s not that you’re just a person who disagrees with idea. No, you’ve got to be a TERF. You think the term “woman” should mean something besides “a person who claims to feel like a woman”? TERF!!! I admit I’m not the most enlightened person on every single social issue, but I don’t think it is bigoted to want one’s identity–the one they’ve had for over 50 years–to be turned into a subjective, undefinable feeling that anyone can claim to possess for whatever reason they want, whenever they want. Rowling may be overly worried about the abuses that will result if we move to an “open door” approach to gender identity, but I don’t think that makes her hateful. I have a feeling if Rowling and I sat down and had a talk, we would have some areas of disagreement. But I’m not “canceling” her, whatever that means. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/23 "2020-06-16T21:45:26Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I got the feeling she was wanting to talk more about her own experience of sexual assault and her need to identify as a female. She was not knocking trans people so much as defending her right to be “person who menstruates” type of female. I get a sense that most people missed the point, including the actors from her many movie adaptations. She sure talked an awful lot about trans people for not wanting to talk about trans people. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/24 "2020-06-16T21:51:05Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I got the feeling she was wanting to talk more about her own experience of sexual assault and her need to identify as a female. She was not knocking trans people so much as defending her right to be “person who menstruates” type of female. I get a sense that most people missed the point, including the actors from her many movie adaptations. You’re ignoring that she has a long history of transphobic tweets. This was just the most recent. And instead of apologizing, she doubled down. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/25 "2020-06-16T21:55:03Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > You posted a thread about JK Rowling and mentioned ‘ruining people’s livlihoods’. Since you didn’t specify, I presumed that you were talking about the topic of the thread and not something only distantly related to it. But if you don’t have any problem with the treatment that JK Rowling is receiving for airing her hateful and bigoted views, why make her the subject line of your complaint? > > What do you mean by ‘the current orthodox view’, and what are the cases of people getting fired or being left unable to hold meetings or speaking? This is all too vague to meaningfully respond to, and sounds a lot like whitewashing ‘this person called the cops on a black person for existing’ or ‘this person accosted a woman who looked too butch when she tried to go to the bathroom’ into something innocuous. Ah, I understand. In her essay JKR mentions she tweeted in support of Maya Forstater, who lost her job due to allegedly transphobic tweets, and how she received harassment and threats from trans activists. Did you read the essay? That is the sort of treatment I’m objecting to. And [this](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-war-on-women) is the sort of thing I mean about preventing speaking - activists trying to stop women holding meetings to discuss a planned change in the UK law. > [@Pantastic](#): > > If you’re not aware of the history of people protesting ads that aren’t christian white people, protesting (and often successfully banning) shows for showing people that aren’t ‘standard’, firing teachers (and plenty of others) for being gay or engaging in interracial relationships, segregation and anti-miscongeneation laws, and the like, then your lack of knowledge is simply breathtaking and it’s no wonder that you think ‘cancel culture’ is brand new. > > You’re… you’re seriously asking that question? Do you really not know any 20th century US history? I’m not being sarcastic here, open discrimination against and persecution of blacks, people friendly to blacks, LGBT people, people friendly to LGBT people, non-christians, was incredibly common. I got the impression the Starbucks holiday cup and Cheerios ads are current campaigns - I was asking if they are succeeding now. As for US history, I know there was open and legally enforced discrimination against blacks, and discrimination against LGBT people. But no, I don’t know specifics about banning shows or protesting ads that happened in another country before I was born. I suppose your point is that people then faced threats and risked losing their jobs for publicly opposing segregation, but… that’s obviously a bad thing. Isn’t it still bad now? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/26 "2020-06-16T21:59:18Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have a feeling if Rowling and I sat down and had a talk, we would have some areas of disagreement. But I’m not “canceling” her, whatever that means. I agree with all you wrote, especially the part I quoted. Rowling’s views, to the extent I understand them, are not worth getting riled up about. Good people can disagree about things. Of course, there are hateful and ignorant views that don’t have be embraced, but short of that, we’re just have a societal conversation. It will work out. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/27 "2020-06-16T22:03:48Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I got the feeling she was wanting to talk more about her own experience of sexual assault and her need to identify as a female. She was not knocking trans people so much as defending her right to be “person who menstruates” type of female. I get a sense that most people missed the point, including the actors from her many movie adaptations. You’re ignoring that she has a long history of transphobic tweets. This was just the most recent. And instead of apologizing, she doubled down. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/28 "2020-06-16T22:03:49Z")
She made the very good point that if woman means “anyone who says they’re a woman” then there is no such thing as woman. Anyone calling my wife a “menstruator” will be called “defecator” Or maybe she’s Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/29 "2020-06-16T22:07:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The main issue for the trans movement is that it requires a certain critical mass of people to go along with it in order for it to continue/succeed. The moment enough people say, “The emperor’s clothes aren’t real,” the movement risks falling apart. It can survive one or a few people criticizing it that way - indeed, there always are some. But there’s never been a trans opponent quite as powerful or well-known as Rowling. She isn’t some blogger typing from her basement, she is the world’s wealthiest (and perhaps best-known) author, with an enormous following. Furthermore, she has been consistently liberal-progressive on just about all other issues, which makes her more dangerous yet to the trans movement. > > So the trans movement has turned their cannons on full bore blast on Rowling, hoping she will crack and relent like the others. 😕 Did you read [Rowling’s actual remarks](https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/)? She is not at all trying to say that transgender identity or the movement for transgender rights “aren’t real”, as the following excerpts make very clear: > [@](#): > > I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people […] in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned. […] > > Trans people need and deserve protection. […] Trans women who work in the sex industry, particularly trans women of colour, are at particular risk. Like every other domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor I know, I feel nothing but empathy and solidarity with trans women who’ve been abused by men. > > So I want trans women to be safe. Those are not the words of somebody who’s trying to erase transgender rights or doesn’t think transgender identity is real. But they also don’t jibe very well with Rowling’s other, less reasonable remarks about the alleged problems with identifying transgender women as women. In fact, the whole core of the “gender critical”/Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist/Feminism-Appropriating Radical Transphobe/whatever ideology seems to me like just a massive tempest in a teapot. For some reason, the hill they want to die on is the claim that we have to reserve the term “woman” for people who were assigned female at birth, and if we include transgender women in the category “woman” then that is somehow degrading or threatening to cisgender women. As a cisgender woman myself, my reaction to that is 😕😕 😕 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/30 "2020-06-16T22:12:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > - it’s somehow disparaging to cisgender women to refer to people who menstruate as “people who menstruate” or “menstruators” rather than “women”; 😕 Well, yeah. Would you like to be reduced to your biological functions? And shouldn’t the people concerned get to decide how they are referred to? > [@Kimstu](#): > > - including transgender women in the category “woman” somehow degrades or threatens cisgender women; 😕 > > - not requiring transgender women to physiologically transition somehow increases danger to women from male predators in women’s restrooms etc. 😕 😕 😕 (and what happened to not requiring gender-norm conformity in order to qualify as a “woman”?) Male predators are unlikely to undergo physical transition in order to gain access to single sex spaces like toilets and prisons and hospital wards. But if all they have to do is wait three months and sign a form, that’s very different. Obviously in the case of restrooms a sign on the door will not keep all predators out, but it does mean businesses etc can legally remove them without being accused of discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/31 "2020-06-16T22:15:28Z")
OK, set aside, for the moment, the question of whether transgenderism is “real” or not. Does it even matter? If someone tells me that they prefer to be referred to as “she”, is there any reason why I shouldn’t? Is there any reason I should care who’s in the bathroom stall next to me? If we can make a bunch of people happier with no negative consequences, then we should. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/32 "2020-06-16T22:20:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > (…) > But she also made some really irrational claims, such as the following: > (…) > > - it’s somehow disparaging to cisgender women to refer to people who menstruate as “people who menstruate” or “menstruators” rather than “women”; 😕 > (…) (I’m singling out a point because I agree mostly with the rest::worrying about bathrooms doesn’t quite pass the sniff-test) I’m the first to defer to anyone who can make make a good argument that calling women “menstruators” is a good thing. But I haven’t seen that argument yet. I think most women I know would prefer “bitches” or “cunts”. (Sarcasm smilie) I know I’m not calling my mother/wife/daughter that. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/33 "2020-06-16T22:22:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, set aside, for the moment, the question of whether transgenderism is “real” or not. Does it even matter? If someone tells me that they prefer to be referred to as “she”, is there any reason why I shouldn’t? Is there any reason I should care who’s in the bathroom stall next to me? If we can make a bunch of people happier with no negative consequences, then we should. Predators, man! Didn’t you know that a full 30% of straight men are going to head straight into the women’s bathrooms and start assaulting people if all they have to do is sign away their masculinity? And once they’ve done so they’ll be immune from prosecution, even if they carry out their nefarious deeds right in front of everybody with cameras watching them go in beforehand and out wearing a smug grin afterwards. Women are immune to legal prosecution, don’t you know. And also, have you forgotten how when gay marriage was legalized, all straight marriages were disbanded? Cis women just don’t want a repeat of that happening to them. On preview: I do agree that calling cis women “menstruators” is stupid and intended to be deliberately insulting. Who came up with that shit? It sounds like the sort of thing conservatives would strawman up to give themselves something to complain about. If an actual liberal came up with it they should be ashamed of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/34 "2020-06-16T22:30:39Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > She made the very good point that if woman means “anyone who says they’re a woman” then there is no such thing as woman. 😕 How is that a good point? Many identities are fundamentally based just on the claims of the identifiers. Since “Christian” ultimately means “anyone who says they’re a Christian”, does that mean there is no such thing as “Christian”? Sure, there are widely shared specific features of Christian belief, just as there are widely shared specific features of female identity, and there are small minorities in each case who don’t share those features. But we don’t have to strictly police adherence to those features in order to keep the term “Christian” or the term “woman” from losing all meaning. > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > Anyone calling my wife a “menstruator” will be called “defecator” :rolleyes: AFAICT nobody is suggesting that anybody call anybody else a “menstruator” except in contexts where the fact of menstruation is relevant. It seems both delusionally paranoid and ridiculously squeamish to object to your wife being included in a category called “menstruators” in contexts that are specifically about the experience of menstruation. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/35 "2020-06-16T22:33:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I appreciate that she’s concerned that teenagers are being encouraged to transition before they are certain they are truly trans. That’s not a particular worry of mine, but I can appreciate that concern. Seems to me that such “oopsies” don’t HAVE to be a big deal. We choose to make them a big deal. Maybe that’s what we should address rather than the “oopsies”. You don’t think it’s a big deal if teenagers are given irreversible hormone treatment and surgery to remove parts of their bodies due to a faulty diagnosis? > [@monstro](#): > > I admit to feeling frustrated over how much the discourse seems to be all over the place. It seems like one day we were all learning about how gender is a social construct. I was totally down for this message because it makes sense to me. But today the message seems to be gender is whatever an individual says it is, damn the societal millieu and the biology. And if you don’t agree with this idea, it’s not that you’re just a person who disagrees with idea. No, you’ve got to be a TERF. You think the term “woman” should mean something besides “a person who claims to feel like a woman”? TERF!!! I admit I’m not the most enlightened person on every single social issue, but I don’t think it is bigoted to want one’s identity–the one they’ve had for over 50 years–to be turned into a subjective, undefinable feeling that anyone can claim to possess for whatever reason they want, whenever they want. Rowling may be overly worried about the abuses that will result if we move to an “open door” approach to gender identity, but I don’t think that makes her hateful. Sounds like a good description of what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/36 "2020-06-16T22:35:50Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Well, yeah. Would you like to be reduced to your biological functions? And shouldn’t the people concerned get to decide how they are referred to? > > Male predators are unlikely to undergo physical transition in order to gain access to single sex spaces like toilets and prisons and hospital wards. But if all they have to do is wait three months and sign a form, that’s very different. Obviously in the case of restrooms a sign on the door will not keep all predators out, but it does mean businesses etc can legally remove them without being accused of discrimination. I get the impression that the concerns by Rowling and others is that the wolves will dress as sheep to get into the hen house (if you’ll allow the crossed metaphor); Male predators will only pretend to be women to victimize women. There seems to be a concern that transwomen will seize control of the feminist movement or have too much power within it. Aren’t those concerns reminiscent of when the Boy Scouts was considering admitting gay people and some feared that gay leaders would use being boy scout leaders as an opportunity to abuse children? To the fears that gays, the homosexual agenda, are gaining too much power within society? Is there any more reason to think Rowling’s fears are more grounded in actual danger than the fears of allowing gay people to be teachers or youth leaders? How much evidence is there of transwomen seizing power within general feminist organizations or used their status as women to abuse female-born/XX women? It’s possible but I’ve not heard of it although that may solely be because of my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/37 "2020-06-16T22:48:14Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I’m the first to defer to anyone who can make make a good argument that calling women “menstruators” is a good thing. But I haven’t seen that argument yet. I repeat, with slight paraphrase, my remark from my preceding post: > [@Kimstu](#): > > AFAICT nobody is suggesting that anybody call anybody else a “menstruator” except in contexts where the fact of menstruation is relevant. It seems both delusionally paranoid and ridiculously squeamish to object to your [mother/wife/daughter] being included in a category called “menstruators” in contexts that are specifically about the experience of menstruation. Remember, this whole “menstruator” kerfuffle got started because Rowling made a silly snide joke about a perfectly reasonable and relevant use of the phrase “people who menstruate” to refer to, you know, people who menstruate, specifically with respect to experiences involving menstruation. [Here is the article using that phrase:](https://www.devex.com/news/sponsored/opinion-creating-a-more-equal-post-covid-19-world-for-people-who-menstruate-97312#.XtwLnv0aEeR.twitter) > [@](#): > > Opinion: Creating a more equal post-COVID-19 world for people who menstruate […] > > Importantly, advocates are calling attention to the many gendered aspects of the pandemic, including increased vulnerabilities to gender-based violence during lockdowns, and the risks faced by primary caretakers — particularly women in the household and health care workers, approximately 75% of which are women. > > An estimated 1.8 billion girls, women, and gender non-binary persons menstruate, and this has not stopped because of the pandemic. They still require menstrual materials, safe access to toilets, soap, water, and private spaces in the face of lockdown living conditions that have eliminated privacy for many populations. […] And [here is Rowling’s dumbass comment on that article](https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1269382518362509313): > [@](#): > > ‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud? Hyuk hyuk. :rolleyes: In fact, of course, “women” is not a particularly useful real-world synonym for “people who menstruate”. A very large percentage of cisgender women are post-menopausal, and thus are not impacted by the difficulties of maintaining menstruation hygiene during a pandemic. On the other hand, a very large percentage of girls do menstruate but are not yet officially categorized as “women”. And, of course, there’s also the small minority of people who menstruate who identify as transgender men or non-binary. So gosh, what sort of term could we use to refer specifically and only to those people who currently experience menstruation, and thus have to cope with the challenges of maintaining menstruation hygiene in our COVID-19 world? “Someone help me out”… Wait, I know! How about we refer to them as “people who menstruate”, or “menstruators” for short? It’s specific, precise, and biologically factual. Surely there’s nobody dumb enough to regard such a descriptive clinical nomenclature as somehow offensive to women. …As it turns out, though, there were plenty of people dumb enough to jump to the conclusion that trans-rights activists are somehow advocating the use of “menstruators” as a shorthand term for “cisgender women” in **all** contexts, the way some gay people call straight people “breeders” or misogynists call women “holes”. So a great clutching of pearls ensued. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/38 "2020-06-16T22:51:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > (…)It seems both delusionally paranoid and ridiculously squeamish to object to your wife being included in a category called “menstruators” in contexts that are specifically about the experience of menstruation. How about “women”? Or if we are in a context where more precision is required: “cis-women”? “Menstruators” is a studied insult in any context. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/39 "2020-06-16T22:54:54Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I get the impression that the concerns by Rowling and others is that the wolves will dress as sheep to get into the hen house (if you’ll allow the crossed metaphor); Male predators will only pretend to be female to victimize women. There seems to be a concern that transwomen will seize control of the feminist movement or have too much power within it. > > Aren’t those concerns reminiscent of when the Boy Scouts was considering admitting gay people and some feared that gay leaders would use being boy scout leaders as an opportunity to abuse children? To the fears that gays, the homosexual agenda, are gaining too much power within society? Is there any more reason to think Rowling’s fears are more grounded in actual danger than the fears of allowing gay people to be teachers or youth leaders? How much evidence is there of transwomen seizing power within general feminist organizations or used their status as women to abuse female-born/XX women? It’s possible but I’ve not heard of it although that may solely be because of my ignorance. There have been several [cases](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg) in the UK of transwomen moved into women’s prisons who went on the sexually assault other inmates. Most of the other sexual assaults were committed by (male) prison staff. We’re not talking about what normal men will do. Don’t you think the kind of men who take upskirt photos would love an effectively unisex bathroom where they can stick their phone under the cubical wall to video women? And the kind who flashes women in parks will ‘forget’ to close the door… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/40 "2020-06-16T22:55:54Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > How about “women”? > Or if we are in a context where more precision is required: “cis-women”? > “Menstruators” is a studied insult in any context. Read my post #37 just before yours to understand how this whole kerfuffle about the term “menstruators” got launched by Rowling’s dumb pissypants reaction to a perfectly reasonable and appropriate use of the term “people who menstruate”, and why this whole kerfuffle is ridiculous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795.md?page=3)